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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid

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Comments

  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    It's a Faux Chrome finish done much in the same way they paint anything these days as powder coat. The finish goes on dry as a powder then they bake the finish in an oven. The process is nice, but it will never achieve a pure chrome look, it will be slightly dull with a gray overtone. The thing to keep in mind is, it's a paint, paint chips, chrome doesn't, so you can expect this finish to chip at some point, and if they didn't prep the wheels properly, they can peel.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Do Want. That car looks nice in Ice Blue!
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    and of course real chrome can rust too so it is a hit or miss with anything.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    And polished aluminum can corrode and get really dull really quick if not taken care of.
  • amcarseekeramcarseeker Member Posts: 4
    After dilligently looking for a Milan HB, and finding dis-interest on the part of the Balt-Washington corridor Ford-Lincoln-Mercury dealers in terms of supply and selling - we ended up buying a new 2010 Prius with more eguipment, better reliability, much better MPG, and lower price than the scarce Milan HB ($30 k plus).

    But, before that happened, we in desperation had looked for a 2009 Sable (since we had had Sables since 1988) . Nope, they didn't have any, and were not particularly interested in searching for one at other dealerships. O.K., how about a used Sable/Montego? Oh, well, they had one 2007 Montego, which they said was in "like-new" condition with only 7 k miles. Except it turned-out that the same car just had a front axle replaced, according to its Carfax history(occuring after they had first attempted to sell it to us as in "like-new" condition).. The salesman, claimed that he knew nothing about that, and then downplayed the significance of the axle replacement. Riiight. On a 7,000 mile car - needs a new axle? Doesn't mean a thing....Riiight. Hmmm, so if I had bought that car and was going down the expressway at 60 mph - and the faulty front axle failed.....not a problem???!!!

    So, after 22 years of solely owning Mercurys, the attitude and behavior of the local Mercury dealerships finally blew us out of their market.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Don't be so fast on the better reliability. The 2010 Prius is just as new, if not newer than the Ford Hybrid. The Prius has a new engine, new drive train, new computer, etc. It may look close to the Generation 2 Prius, but it is in reality a new 1st year car. This puts it absolutely equal to the Ford Hybrid.

    Hopefully they improved the handling and traction control on the Prius, the 2007 I had was lousy when on the highway with crosswinds, and loss of traction put everyone in a dangerous situation since it cut power 100% to the drive wheels, and if you are trying to get out into traffic, and there is sand or gravel on the road, any slippage and the TC cuts in. This has put us out into traffic with no power. Among a few other things, this was the major thing that caused us to get rid of the Prius. If your a city folk, the Prius is a great car, but live in the country, fergitaboutit.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Why didn't you just order a Milan Hybrid or whatever other Mercury vehicle you wanted? Only takes a few weeks. The Prius is not in the same league as the Fusion/Milan Hybrids. The only advantage is fuel economy but you pay a significant price for that in everyday driveability.
  • amcarseekeramcarseeker Member Posts: 4
    As I said, I originally wanted a Mercury Milan HB. Unfortunately, the dealerships that I encountered did not want to cooperate.

    As for 2010 Prius reliability, you are quite correct that the car was (almost) totally redesigned. However, after searching for as many reviews as I could find that included test drives, I could not find any substantial criticism of its design and performance. To the contrary, they were generally quite favorable.

    An exception to the overwhelmingly favorable acclaim might be CarandDriver.com which somewhat grudgingly admitted that the Prius was technologically superior to most other comparable HBs, but described driving it as "boringly normal" (paraphrase). This is probably true - by their standards - which view the ideal cars as Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, Corvettes, etc. Unfortunately, I (and most other car buyers) are not playing in that league!

    Regarding your reports of handling problems with the 2007 Prius, I did not find similar concerns in the reviews that I found (which were mostly about the 2008, 2009 and 2010 models) However, such handling problems may also apply to other hybrids of that size. If the problems that you described are caused by the HB drivetrain, then other brands that are using licensed versions of the Toyota HB design (which include Fusion/Milan and Nissan) may also have that problem.

    In any case, as you pointed-out, the 2010 Prius is a redesign and is therefore a "new 1st year" car. Therefore, comparisons to the problems that you reported on your 2007 may not apply at all to this new design. Time will tell (for all hybrids).
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The problem isn't the hybrid drivetrain - it's the suspension/tires/aero package on the Prius.
  • vschmidtvschmidt Member Posts: 1
    "A few weeks?" I assure you that is not really the case. Sometimes it takes an authorized dealer "a few weeks" just to confirm you have a legitimate retail order!

    According to various forums, Ford Fusions seem to be taking about 8--10 weeks to deliver _once the order is confirmed_, and my Milan hybrid may be delivered as early as 16 weeks. (Others who have ordered Milan hybrids seem to be getting theirs in 10--12 weeks after retail order confirmation.)
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    For the handling in cross winds it is, the traction control though was way too sensitive. The Camry Hybrid though, I rarely ever have it shut down on gravel, even though the tires slip. The Prius was so sensitive that a 1/4 slip of either tire would shut it down.

    I don't dislike the car, when I took a trip to San Jose CA last year, I rented a Prius, frankly because I couldn't get a Camry Hybrid. It was a 2008 model, and it drove a little slower, and got a little less MPG than the one I had, but drove pretty much the same. I didn't hit any gravel or sand, so I don't know if the TC was any better in it.
  • hayley2hayley2 Member Posts: 44
    We have had our MMH since 4/29 and have about 4000 miles on it and long term mileage is 40.5.

    Now to the question, does anyone know when your headlights are on, is there an indicator on the dash anywhere? When I turn my headlights on, unless it is dark, I cannot tell that they are actually on. I normally have them set on "Auto" and difficult to know when they come on when it is not actually dark. I have turned the Headlights on in complete darkness, and do not see an indicator of any kind on the dash. Any help will be appreciated. :confuse:
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    About the only way I can tell is to click the bright lights on and the blue bright lights indicator will illuminate on the dash.

    40.5 overall mpg!! What's your terrain and how often do you run full A/C, even for a short time.

    I'm still keeping all my gas receipts and the mpg reported by the car is 1-2 mpg more than the total miles (about 6500) divided by gal. of gas bought. I understand that we should get better mileage after 10k. I wouldn't be concerned if the car's reported mpg was less than gasoline bought, but when it has consistently been the other way, I started to question the validity (honesty) of the equipment, and the company. Measurement error should be less than 1 mpg.

    I'm still very pleased with my FFH, but .... :D
  • hayley2hayley2 Member Posts: 44
    Thanks for the "Heads Up" on the Headlight issue. That works for me.

    Overall terrain here in Central IL is mostly flat & we have been driving with the A/C on most of the time with few exceptions, not full blast but where we are comfortable.

    I updated my Excel Spread Sheet today including all the gas used thru 7/28 which is the last fill-up at a total of 3598 miles and used total of 95 1/2 Gallons.

    My average calculated by actual gas used is as follows;
    Avg. MPG Cost per Mile
    37.67 $0.0659

    So comparing with vehicle calculations and actual gas used, about 8% off.

    Not perfect by any means, but I'm happy with my MMH. Even if gas goes up to $5.00 plus per gal, my cost per mile will be in range of 0.132 per mile. Not bad.
    :)
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I agree that you cannot tell if the headlights are on especially during the day or when it is raining. Thanks for the trick with the bright lights however they really need to put a nice LED on the light switch so you can tell when they are actually on. Other than that around 6k on my MHB no issues so far. Around 38 long term mileage and when I really watch the EV and traffic is light (so I can coast some) I can get 41 on several trips about 25 miles or so.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Don't they have a automatic headlight on? Last few cars I bought turned them on and out automatically. I would think with the price of this car this would be included. Then you don't need to worry.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's just it - when they're on automatic you can't tell if they've automatically turned on or not. Sometimes they don't come on as early as you would like. Although they do come on automatically if the wipers are turned on so that helps.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Yep they have auto on but if it is light rain during the day it is very hard to tell if your lights are on or not. My son drove my HB yesterday and really got into keeping the EV light on. So we got 45 mpg on the drive home yesterday!

    Used the fuel price' and thought we had 2.42 a gallon here in DC that was 12 cents cheaper then anything. Upon arrive it was 2.49 a gallon. As the attendant how prices are transmitted via the SIRIS travel link. They said they are transmitted on Friday and that they raised prices over the weekend and that is why it was off.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    If there is a light rain than the wipers will be on and according to other poster the lights come on. This is a law in Canada and looks like it finally made it to the U.S. as I have 2 cars that do it too.
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    The long term mpg readout on the car (I think it is for the last 2000 miles) is 38.1 mpg.

    The mpg calculated by gallons bought and miles driven for the last 1908.9 miles is 36.71 mpg.

    The mpg calculated by the gallons bought (198.2) and miles driven since leaving the dealer's lot (7340.8) is 37.04 mpg.

    I'm very pleased with the car's equipment and mpg, but there's a difference in what the car's indicator reports and what my wallet says.

    Wyatt
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    It's common to have a difference in mpgs between the readout and actual calculation. Yours are very close, compared to many.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Doesn't sound as good as they claim, those numbers are very close to what I get with the Camry Hybrid, in fact my highway miles are over 40 MPG, I drove about 80 miles highway today and boosted my 36.8 MPG to over 38 MPG on this tank, the Camry resets the MPG meter on every fill, so to get overall average I have to do it all by hand, and the numbers are very close to 38 MPG. If that is the case, we would need more owners to chime in with their actual readings to get a more accurate picture, then someone has some 'splainin to do on the EPA numbers given the the Fusion Hybrid. I consistently get above EPA numbers in the Camry, and that is without really trying. What I have been seeing so far though on the Ford is an over estimation on the MPG.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's only a 3-4% difference. If you consider that the odometer itself can be off by that amount at highway speeds AND that the amount of fuel used is estimated based on the number of injector firings I'd say it's pretty amazing that it's that close.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There is no 'splainin to do. Many FFH owners are reporting 40+, and what YOU are able to achieve has almost nothing to do with what others are able to achieve, even in the same vehicle. There are far too many variables.
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    Yeah,

    I think that is probably within the margin of error. Of course, how the car is driven, terrain, AC/heat, etc. could make a difference in how the mpg is calculated by the car's computer.

    The point I should have made in my initial post was that since the first fillup, the car's reported mpg has always been above the miles/gals figure. As I understand margin of error, it should be + and -. But since Toyota owners have said that their hybrids got different/better mpg after 10K miles, maybe the margin of error will become more evenly distributed when the engine is really broken in.

    Also, I've always wondered if gas pumps accurately measure the fuel pumped, or do they tend to report slightly higher amounts pumped than actually makes it thru the hose; of course within the legal margin of error.

    Your comment about how the car computes mpg is interesting. I assumed it was by fuel flow meters.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I don't think vehicles have fuel flow sensors but I could be wrong. Since the computer controls the injectors and they should always inject a precise amount of fuel I just assumed that's how it was calculated. Can't think of another good way.

    I forgot the gas pump issue - they can also be inaccurate although they do require periodic calibration.

    Bottom line - there are a lot of variables on both sides and expecting the computer to be more than 5% accurate is probably optimistic.
  • hayley2hayley2 Member Posts: 44
    Has anyone on this forum had Splash Guards installed on there MMH and are they after-market or specifically custom made for the MMH? I have searched/Googled to no avail. :confuse:
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    You're right, with all the electronic measurements in the FI system they don't have to add any other flow sensors. As to the previous post about the numbers becoming more accurate over time (10,000 miles), I doubt it, it's not a 'break in' issue, it's a calibration issue.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Maybe so, but many owners of the TCH are also getting well above EPA ratings, it is only those owners who drive the care as if it is a V6 Lemon`s car are getting below EPA. In just normal everyday driving, maintaining at or a little above the posted limits, no special tricks I get at least 2 MPG higher than EPA, its with the Pulse and Glide and EV modes that I am able to get 4-6 MPG higher than EPA. IF that is true with the Ford, then others should be reporting getting at least 44 MPG normally, and that is what I am looking to see. Until then, I am skeptical on what the EPA has rated the car at.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Skeptical as in you think the EPA test was done incorrectly? Or skeptical that Ford found some loophole in the test procedure that allows them to do better than Toyota on the EPA test?
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    Let me clarify:

    I'm satisfied with the long-term reading of 38.1 mpg. When the car is driven with a minimum amount of concern for mpg, the long-term mpg is 39+.

    My only concern was the consistent lower mpg by the miles/gals measurement vs the car's readout.

    Yea, it should only be an issue if others are getting the same results.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Well ordered our new Black Fusion Hybrid with the 502A package. Since we had no trade I emailed about 10 dealers in my area and a few came back with invoice price. I took one to my local dealer to see if he was willing to at least match or come close and he matched it. We ordered it this afternoon. We figure with all the cars gone in the Cash for Clunkers that it could take 10 weeks or more. Main thing is we got in on the $1700 tax credit, plus all state and local taxes and excise taxes are supposed to be deductible too on the Fed. taxes next spring. Since wifes lease isn't up till Jan. I hope we get it about first week of Dec. so we can have time to put it through its pases before she turns in her STS. Now the wait begins.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I was laughing about blinking the brights to see if you lights are on. After I thought about it well of course the brights come on when you blink them and it is not an indicator that your lights are on. LOL!

    However I did verify that when you turn the wipers on during daylight hours the lights do come on after a few wipes.

    The bottom line is if you are worried about having the lights on during the day then you must turn them on. The auto lights come on at night and when you use the wipers during the day they will also come on. That is ok but still it would be nice to have an LED light to verify when they are on.

    I am getting long term MPG of 38 without doing anything. When i want to have fun and watch the EV I get over 40 mpg. When my son drives he thinks it is a game to keep it in EV mode and he is getting 44-46 mpg.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You missed the point. Yes, the brights will flash no matter what (but you won't see them in the daytime). The difference is the blue light in the dash only appears if the lights are ON when you flash the brights. If the lights are OFF when you flash the brights the blue light does not appear. Therefore it tells you if your lights are on or off.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    If you pull back to flash, the blue indicator does light up, if you push forward to put the high beams on, then the light will either come on or not depending on if the lights are on. Specifically, you must push the stem forward to the high position, and not pull back to the flash to pass position for this to be of any use. Then again you could always just stop, get out and actually look to see if the lights are on.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I forgot whether it was turning on the brights or pulling to flash, but the point is it works one way or the other.
  • sumneyquillsumneyquill Member Posts: 1
    My local dealer was firm on sticker price if I wanted to drive one away from the lot and compete directly with the clunker folks for the vehicle. I was asking for $ 500 over invoice and the dealer finally decided that inventory not price was his issue. So I ordered the ice blue, 502A with black leather and remote and the wait is now on as he is to call when the VIN is known.
  • fressersfressers Member Posts: 3
    Ordered miy Fusion Hybrid May 31 and took delivery About Aug 1. Leather installed by dealer. Got small concession on price. Finding that MPG in town
    is around 30. Not unhappy since this is Miami and we have long traffic lights
    that are badly mistimed every few blocks. Motor has to cut in to support A/C
    which is very effective. Did have one late nite opportunity to run thru relatively
    rural area with A?C off and computer indicated 49.5 mpg.
  • As an aside, another illustration of our timid and asinine clinging to stoplights. Roundabouts and traffic circles are not only safer, but they also obviate the need to sit at lights and thereby save considerable fuel. Enjoy your new car.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    That may be true, in Europe, but here, people wouldn't know how to use them and would cause more accidents and jams than you can imagine. There is a traffic circle at Wolf Road in a Chicago suburb, that is the worst possible intersection you ever want to drive through, so many people run into each other there, its unbelievable. Stop lights suck in more ways than one, that is for sure, teach people how to use a traffic circle, and man what a difference that would make.
  • limiteddriverlimiteddriver Member Posts: 234
    For better visibility by other drivers, you can have the dealer enable your DRLs. They hook it up to the "diagnostic computer" and it takes a 4-5 minutes. My dealer did mine free. I know some of you don't like DRLs.
  • hayley2hayley2 Member Posts: 44
    By having the DRL's activated, does anyone know how much a draw on the Hybrid Battery? Would it have any effect on the mileage? I've always liked DRL's believing it is safer. :confuse:
  • limiteddriverlimiteddriver Member Posts: 234
    Over on another Fusion forum a Ford person said Ford splash guards for the 2010 would be available about October. Earlier years are available now but won't fit the '10. Don't know if they have Fusion on them..
  • limiteddriverlimiteddriver Member Posts: 234
    The low beams are a total of 110 Watts times 80%(estimate) DRL usage or about 7 amps load. IMHO I don't think your mileage would be lowered enough to notice.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Between the 2007 Prius and 2009 Camry I have 54000 miles driving experience behind the wheel of a Hybrid, and get darn good mileage, up to 65 MPG highway on the Prius, so this review is a purely Hybrid based analysis, with some detail on the actual car.

    My current car is a 2009 Camry Hybrid, 32000 miles in 16 months. My previous was a 2007 Prius, 24000 miles in 10 months.

    Last night I got the pleasure to road test a 2010 Fusion Hybrid, loaded to the gills. As far as the car itself, quality, trim, comfort, handling, ride, Far better than the Camry, and as a lot of reviews go, that's about the norm, the Ford is a better car for the money, so enough review on that.

    The actual test drive, the first thing I noticed was that moving off from a stop was rather quick on pure electric, but the pedal is very light, and the engine kicks in almost immediately, where the Camry and Prius you can get up to speed without the ICE with pedal manipulation, the Ford tended to not want to do that. Now the battery SOC was at or below 50%, so that may or may not have contributed to it. The engine cutin/cutout is seamless, you really have to be tuned to it to notice if its cut in without looking at the display. Acceleration appears to be on par with the Camry, no noticeable difference between the two, so power is negligible. In the Camry regen appears to be much quicker, on the short trip we took the Camry battery would have been close to 75%, the Ford was only at 50% up from about 30% when we started. Again the SOC may have been the big trick to this whole test, on a fully charged system, the results may be different. On a slight incline, it would not even attempt to stay in EV, and maintaining speed, even on level road was difficult, the ICE kept kicking in.

    At highway speeds, 55MPH, I noticed that the MPG readout is above what the Camry would report, the Ford was showing close to 60 MPG on the same stretch that I have trouble with in the Camry maintaining 40 MPG. There's a plus for the Ford! The display is fantastic, very informative and easy to comprehend with a quick glance. Unlike the Camry where you have to scroll through the display unless you have Nav, the readouts are all right there. SOC, MPG, ICE state, etc. Over the 4 mile course I drove I managed to grow a bush, but was not able to determine how well the MPG is since you need at least 10 or more miles to get a decent average. Is the system better than the Camry? That I have yet to determine, I would need at least 100 miles of my usual daily transit to know that for sure, but the preliminary test drive, I can say, the car is more comfortable to drive than the Camry is. It would take me at least a couple days to learn the pedal position before I can get it to drive the way the Camry does.

    In summary, the Fusion is a very good car, the quality, materials, ride, handling, and comfort are much better than the Camry. However, I don't think the EPA ratings are correct, on the Camry I can easily exceed EPA for both City and especially highway, easily 35+ city and well over 40 on the highway. In my short trip, I didn't get the feeling that I could exceed EPA on the Ford, which for the hybrids, is rather rare, The Prius I met the pre-change EPA numbers, and far exceeded the new EPA numbers. The only way I would know for sure would be to buy it, and I am about 85% convinced that I want it, the hold out for me is the price, and how well the resale is on it. I have been lucky with the Prius, and hopefully the Camry as far as resale, where I have stayed ahead of the payments as far as equity, and I would like to stay that way. I put a lot of miles on each year, in 16 months I put 32000 on just the Camry, in 18 months, I have over 46000 miles between the Camry and the Veracruz. The main thing is, I am BORED with the Camry, or as I call it the Silver Slug. It handles like a row boat, and rides like Vega.

    So right now I am looking for something fun, but practical, and if it wasn't for having two children in car seats, I would be buying a Genesis Coupe right now, but I don't think I can fit the seats in and have the kids sit without having their feet against the seats. I really liked the Fusion Hybrid, but I don't think it has the fun factor I am looking for, it sure is nicer to drive though. I am going to road test the Sport tonight, and then decide on which one to negotiate on. The dealer has the Hybrid, and other than the color, has all I would like in one, but they don't have the Sport model I want, but I can still test drive what they have and if I like it, order one with what I want. The drawback of the Sport is resale will be drastically different from the Hybrid, so if I buy it, I had better like it, because, like the Veracruz, I will have to keep it at least until it is paid for. At least with the Hybrid, there is the $1700 tax credit still, and the resale should remain high, maybe not as high as the Toyota Hybrids, but much better than the non hybrid Fords. Tough decision to make.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I liked your test and honest opinion between the T and the F. It is hard to get a real picture on the resale of the FFH (Ford Fusion Hybrid) or any American car for that matter do to selling prices. I have heard on the Fusion Forums that some dealers want sticker and some are willing to go down a little bit. I emailed a bunch of dealers in the mid MIch. area as wife wanted a FFH. I didn't count but I think it was 11 dealers. I got replies from 5. As I told them we had no trade and would most likely not do any service with their dealership after the purchase do to the mileage involved and would take it to local dealer for service. Anyway I got anywhere from sticker to one dealer who said he sells them for sticker but was willing to knock of $500. 2 would sell for invoice. I took the emails to my local dealer who ordered us a FFH with the 502A package which is the top of the line for invoice and he showed me the invoice from another car he pulled up online. Sticker was $31940 and I got it for 29511.01. From what I have heard there is no way a Toyota dealer would do this so he sells it at or near sticker which inflates the resale over a American car. This is one of the reasons why GM and Chysler cut so many dealers as to help out with the low resales of their cars do to way to many dealers. Here where I live there is 7 Chevy dealers in a 30 mile area which means they bid against each other all the time. Anyway good luck on your decision on what to buy. There just aren't that many really fun cars for a family person with young kids.
  • limiteddriverlimiteddriver Member Posts: 234
    Got one for my 2010 Fusion today. It's about $20 at the dealer. It's part # 8U5Z 9C268 B. Thev key locks and of course unlocks it. Ford calls it a Plug.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Easy Fuel?
  • limiteddriverlimiteddriver Member Posts: 234
    This keeps dirt out of the opening. I believe the purpose of EF is to keep Ford from having to provide gas caps.
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