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2010 Ford Taurus

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Comments

  • I thought I saw a shadow under that bridge...

    I'd like to know what people who say the Taurus is overpriced think the Taurus should be priced near. The old-tech, compact inside big outside Impala? That's a joke.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Allen, I do think you are one of the most informed, intelligent people on these forums. That said, maybe it is possible you are missing the point. Regardless of how the new Taurus, equipped as it is, may be worth the money, Hyundai and Kia have the better idea (as Lexus did years ago): undercut the competition price-wise with a product that measures up, and people will eventually start buying it in numbers.

    If Ford is really already offering a $1K rebate on the 2010 Taurus, then all you are saying is beside the point. If this company, in the straits it is in, believes it can offer that sort of discount and still survive, why didn't they cut the list price in the beginning and advertise the hell out of it instead? Rebates are not as cheap as lowering the price in the first place. Ford is learning, but slowly, and this is an example. There is a lot of talk about how expensive the Taurus is. How is that good? How did anyone in sales or marketing think that by restyling the Taurus to be a car that people might actually buy (because it was not so stupidly styled anymore) mean that Ford could now charge close to what competitors with a track record in that strata are charging?

    Hyundai had no such fantasies when it introduced a rear wheel drive very quiet V8 sedan that actually gets as good mileage as many V6s. The jury is still out as to whether the Genesis nameplate will grow, but they won't need to begin giving them away any time soon. Meanwhile, Ford is drowning in debt. I give them credit for not taking a government handout, but GM, by admitting they screwed up royally, could actually end up doing them one better. And that sucks. Over the course of history and a dumb as GM has been at times, they usually figure out how to beat Ford. The crappy Impala is an example. But the CTS is a better example.

    Ford could clean up if they could build and market the Fusion like they used to do with the Taurus years ago. As good as the Fusion is, they don't have the means to build it in large numbers. There was a brief time when Taurus wasn't the fleet queen, but rather was the best in its category. It's time to get back to that.
  • I'd like to know what people who say the Taurus is overpriced think the Taurus should be priced near.

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    Near a Honda Accord. The Honda offers the same passenger compartment volume as the new Taurus and offers the comfort and convenience features that buyers want for thousands less than the Taurus.

    An Accord EX-L with the V6 stickers for $29,800. An equivalent Taurus Limited w/moonroof is $32,890. The Accord is 10% cheaper, 10% lighter and 10% more efficient.

    We don't even need to discuss the 4 cylinder Accords because their price, weight and efficiency are so far superior it becomes 21st century vs. 20th century.

    I don't know that all this matters much though. The rebates and incentives on the Taurus will likely have the actual transaction prices very, very close to the Accord.

    I believe by spring 2010 Ford will have $3,000 rebates on all Taurus models. The Taurus is good but so is the competition. If Ford can get enough butts in their seats, they will turn some heads and make some sales.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    I understand what you're saying Gregg, but that's not what these yahoos are saying. They're saying it's too expensive just because it has a blue oval on it and that's rubbish. My guess is they wouldn't spend $35K on any new vehicle period and they have an axe to grind with Ford.

    Anyone who does an objective comparison based on FACTS (like grad) understands that the Taurus is competitively priced. If the market won't support it then Ford will have to make a decision to make but cutting the price probably isn't on the list. They'll either make do with a smaller market share or get rid of it. Cutting the price puts it too close to the Fusion.

    I don't think Ford wants to attract bargain hunters because there's no money in it. They're not trying to establish an entire brand like Hyundai. They have a plan to take Ford upmarket and they certainly have the product to do it. If it doesn't work with consumers then it doesn't work but I don't fault Ford for trying.

    This is just typical Ford bashing by people who wouldn't buy a new Ford anyway unless it came with a $10K discount. They're probably disgruntled Panther fans.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    Near a Honda Accord.

    Oh sure - let's conveniently forget about the Fusion. I don't care if the Accord is borderline on the EPA size chart, it competes with the Fusion and the Camry. You never hear about the Accord competing with the Avalon.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,013
    This is just typical Ford bashing

    No, I don't think so. I think it is mostly the opposite. Here Ford stands at a critical juncture to their long term health - they should be pricing aggressively to get people into their showrooms and see the new product in order to change stereotyping of it. Large rebates only serve to cheapen product in the consumers eyes. If you hope for larger margins down the road, you've first got to differentiate and change people's perceptions of the company and its products.
  • You never hear about the Accord competing with the Avalon.

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    What planet do you live on? The Accord does compete with the Avalon.

    You need to wake up. Planet earth to kirby. Come in!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    There are hundreds of comparison tests between Accord and Camry. How many can you find comparing Accord to Avalon? I've never seen one. Just like you see Accord and Fusion, not Accord and Taurus.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    Since when is $1000 on a $30K car considered a large rebate? If it was $3K or $4K then that would be a problem.

    The new Ford will cut production before they raise incentives to high levels. That is a fundamental change that took place at Ford over the last 2 years. Inventory levels are being managed so that they don't end up with overstock situations where you have to put $5K on the hood just to get rid of excess inventory.

    Ford spent the better part of the last decade trying to compete on price and found out there are others that can do it better. They tried selling vehicles to rental fleets and putting huge amounts of cash on the hood just to keep factories open and found out that doesn't yield profits. They tried relying on a few vehicles to generate profit and found out that doesn't work when the market changes.

    This is definitely a new move for Ford and it has some risks, but at least now they have the reliability and a decent product and are building the reputation that it takes to pull it off.

    I understand that some people still think Ford needs to sell a lot of cars right away or do something drastic with rebates or lowering the price but that would only produce short term results and Ford needs to focus on long term sustainability.

    If you think the Taurus is too pricey, don't buy one. But that also means the REAL competition is also too pricey.
  • The Genesis is a very good car, but it will never get you up a slippery hill in winter and it rides badly over bumps. I have driven it and was dissapointed.
  • While I agree with earlier posts that Avalon is the natural competitor for the new Taurus, I disagree with the assertion that the Avalon is better, top to bottom. I'll grant that the Toyota 3.5L V-6 is a jewel of a motor, easily the smoothest and most efficient, if not a powerful as the Nissan V-6. However that's where Avalon superiority ends. Toyota reliability is not what it used to be and their build quality while consistently good, is not exceptional and is easily equaled by Ford, as well as some GM (Buick) competition. The Avalon chassis, being a stretched Camry (an average driving and handling car at best) is nothing special and I find the Avalon to be spongy, underdamped and suffering in the tire and brakes department. Finally, at least in the Southeast, there have been many Avalon's dumped into rental fleets (mainly Hertz) so their residual resale values are hardly legendary. I do think Ford is stretching the Taurus brand to it's limits with their pricing strategy and question the ability to mine enough equity from the Taurus nameplate to justify the price. The availiability of AWD as well as the high-tech options may appeal to some, but with an AWD Limited near 38k, they're facing some stiff competition from Acura, Infiniti, even corporate sibling (for now) Volvo. I give Ford credit for sticking by the name and greatly improving the product, just hope they haven't reached too far in this economic climate to give a solid product a chance.
  • I give Ford credit for sticking by the name and greatly improving the product, just hope they haven't reached too far in this economic climate to give a solid product a chance.

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    Five years ago this new Taurus looked okay on the drawing board. By the time it got to market, things had changed drastically. A 203" sedan weighing 4,100 pounds and costing over $30K are a tough sell today.

    Someone earlier mentioned that Ford would rather sell 50,000 units at a profit than 200,000 units at a loss. I'm sure that's true but I have a relative who is a recently retired VP from Ford and he would quickly explain why 50,000 units won't get the job done.

    The $3,000 and $4,000 rebates are coming soon to a Ford store near you. In fact $1,000 rebates, 0% financing and whatever you can get the dealership to knock off the price are available today in my area; that's worth close to $4K now and the Taurus just hit the lots a few weeks ago. ;)
  • gregagrega Posts: 31
    Ford has positioned the new Taurus/SHO upmarket and compares it to cars like the Audi A6 and Lexus LS, NOT the camry or accord, thats fusion territory!

    Therefore, by moving up market, the price becomes a better value propositon for ford when compared to more expensive Audi and Lexus... its all about positioning.

    Just because the clowns on this forum have no clue and use excuses like its too expensive or too heavy prove they are clueless, especially about marketing!

    You won't see Ford compare the Taurus to Camry or Accord, its the WRONG market segment, they are midsize, Taurus is full size.
  • ...but please dispense with the name-calling. It is unnecessary and adds nothing to the conversation.

    Thanks!

    Karen-Edmunds Community Manager

  • The Accord is now a full-size car.

    Think and say what you will, but marketing and manufacturing people know Ford will be discounting the Taurus $4,000 next year so they sell.

    If the marketing geniuses at Ford had an understanding of their target market and it's demographics they would sell more cars. Trying to move "up-market" in the 2008-2010 time frame to a different target won't happen.

    As it is, Ford is crawling into 2010 on their hands and knees hoping for another "Cash For Clunkers" bail out so they don't have to take the $4,500 hit on their cars. Myself - I realize HUGE discounts are coming soon to a Ford store near you!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    If Ford is really already offering a $1K rebate on the 2010 Taurus,
    we won't have to worry about what Ford's MSRP is - folks that would consider buying one EXPECT a big discount and they get it - much like they would if they are buying other D3 cars and/or Korean cars. A 'tradition' those companies can thank themselves for - and the result of selling substandard products for many many years. Avalons and the like didn't have that problem and still sell for a higher price (relative to invoice) than the others do - even in this economy - wonder why? :surprise:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    As it is, Ford is crawling into 2010 on their hands and knees hoping for another "Cash For Clunkers" bail out so they don't have to take the $4,500 hit on their cars. Myself - I realize HUGE discounts are coming soon to a Ford store near you!

    I say you're wrong and the new Taurus will sell in reasonable volumes at least where the old model was before last year - around 5k/month. You won't see more than $2K cash on the hood. They'll cut production before they go higher than that.

    Guess we'll have to wait and see.

    And please just ignore you-know-who and he'll eventually go away.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,013
    ...but you may also see indirect $ on top like Ford Credit bonus, loyalty or conquest $.

    I think Ford and GM will get to where they can price with Honda and Toyota in the next 5 years or so, but I wish they had been initially more aggressive right now so they could move away from all the promo money and start focusing people on value and quality. Ford and GM got themselves into a hole with some of the crap they did in the past. Now they need to show they have redeemed their ways and that means getting butts into seats. Either approach gets the sales, but incentives and the like degrade the vehicle and emphasize "the deal" instead. Not where they should be going right now in my opinion.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    well, I guess we'll take these one at a time:
    Toyota 3.5L V-6 is a jewel of a motor, easily the smoothest and most efficient, ss we'll take these one at a time: - true
    Toyota reliability is not what it used to be - the Avalon is CR rated better than average (as it always has been) - no change even from when it really was a stretched Camry (see below)
    being a stretched Camry (an average driving and handling car at best) is nothing special and I find the Avalon to be spongy, underdamped
    used to be: the 05 Avalon came before the 06 Camry. It was the first application for the 2GR engine and substantially larger (not just stretched) than the Camry at the time. If anything the new Camry is a shrunk Avalon. And yes, Toyotas, in general, are indeed 'soft' - something that Toyota has understood over the years - Americans WANT big comfy highway cruisers. Their sales stats prove it.
    and lastly:
    their residual resale values are hardly legendary
    and this is why the Avalon annuallly leads TCO numbers for ALL vehicles in this class? Don't know about legendary, but surely without peer. and also a function of keeping those sell prices up.
    You want to talk about things that the money floods out of when you drive them out of the showroom - let's talk about Ford products :confuse:
  • Yes - I learned to read writing my thesis at Yale.

    Okay I gotta ask...how did you get into Yale without knowing how to read? :confuse:
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