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Pictures of new style injectors / poppet nozzles

Steve_01Steve_01 Posts: 42
I'm having the same stalling, missing, rough idle, hard start, issues as many others here with my 97 Astro AWD. So far I've replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor, wires again with better ones, and coil. Although all that has helped, I still have a bit of the same symptoms. Ok, so I covered all of the basic tune-up items plus a new coil. The arcing has gone away but my van is still running rough. After re-checking the fuel pressure, I feel that the current issue is with the fuel pressure regulator so I replaced that too. Now I've read a ton of forum posts on this issue and at on point I came across a post that talked about an upgraded fuel injector pack. My thinking is that since I've read so many posts about this engine having issues with the poppet nozzles, that I should go ahead and invest $260.00 on the upgrade as long as I have the plenum off for the fuel pressure regulator anyway. I'll try to post some pics to give you a better idea of what the new injectors look like. I'm installing these over the Christmas holliday so I'll post afterwards to let anyone who's interested know how things went.

Comments

  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,032
    Thanks for doing this! You might also want to create Guide. Click on "Guides" at the top of the page to do that.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • My pleasure, and thank you for the suggestion. I've been taking pics of the disassembly and I have some tips that where not in the Haynes manual that I'm sure will be helpful for anyone attempting this. I'll post more later, I'm off to snow blow the drive then begin the injector installation.
  • Old vs new style injectors. Hit a wall pretty quick on the first installation attempt. The thing is, that the white fuel tubes are not flexible enough to install this device. Think of a tube quite a bit thicker than a straw but with about the same flexibility. You can only bend it so far before the wall of the tube just folds over and kinks. This is useless. I hope I can send it back for a refund but there's always that "no return on electrical parts" exception. If not, I can do one of three things. 1) Remove the black tubing from around the white fuel tubes and try to heat the white tubes with a paint stripper heat gun in order to bend them without collapsing the tube wall. 2) Replace the white tubes with a high pressure rubber fuel line that will both withstand the 60+ PSI and the heat inside the plenum. 3) Buy a re-manufactured fuel injector assembly for $155.00 after an $85.00 core charge and try to sell the new one to someone with something other than an Astro. I found that around 65 GM models use this poppet style injection system. Maybe it will fit in a different application.
    I guess my next move will depend on whether or not they allow me to return this device.

    image
  • This is the 3rd Chevy I have ever owned in 50 years of driving. I have to say, its the biggest POS I have ever owned. With only 110,000 original miles, 1 owner, I could never dream a vehicle could cause so many headaches. GM, I can only hope you get NO bailout money..............

    I kept getting all kinds of codes. This hunk of junk has a OBDI system, not the OBDII system. I bought another code reader for $200 bucks for the OBDI. When I hook it up, it tells me to use the OBDII cable, which doesn't fit. Therefore, I just threw $200 bucks out the window........

    The manager at Auto Zone use to be a mechanic, and showed me how to get the codes with a paper clip, on the terminal. Anyways, I was getting the Idle Air Control Valve code, map sensor code, EGR valve code, cold intake air code, and so on. I replaced all the sensors on the van, even the oxygen sensor. I put a complete exhaust on it, including the catylitic convertor. In other words, brand new from the heads to the tailpipe. Still had the rough idle, and raw fuel smell.

    On a trip, I was down to 10 mpg. I would run OK at 65 to 70, but not really smooth, as it missed, and would slip in and out of overdrive alot. Even had a real raw gas smell at those speeds.

    Along with the sensors, I did a complete tune-up. Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. All this happened the very next day, after I bought the van. After 100 miles, the plastic tank on the radiator cracked, and had to replace it with a new one for $350 installed. After 250 miles, or 1 week, the starter went out. 2 days after the starter, the dash light quit working.

    Back to the Auto Zone, and talked to the manager again (former mechanic). He says its the fuel rail. He keeps 3 in stock, and sells them regularly, so I bought one of those for $294.00 + $12.00 for the plenum gasket.

    Sure enough, when I split the manifold, the passenger side was fairly clean. The drivers side was filthy with oil, dirt, grime, built up plaque. I stuffed rags in the air holes, and cleaned it out with carburetor cleaner. 12 cans to do the lower and upper.

    I turned the key on, and watched the gas run out of the internal regular. This is why the passenger side was fairly clean, and explains the raw gas smell, and poor fuel mileage. The injector nozzles have squeeze type clips to pull them out. All 6 were brittle and broke, and had to wrestle them out with a needle nose pliers. I cleaned all 6 holes out with carb cleaner, and blew them dry with shop air. Then I took a mirror and looked into all the holes, to make sure they were all clean. I pulled everything out, and installed the new one. Quite easy actually. The new ones locked into place without too much effort. I put it back together and it runs fine now. Cleared all the codes, and nothing reappeared yet.

    I had the vacuum problem some other guys were having on here. I did mine a little different than the rest. I went to Advance Auto parts, and bought 3/16 steel brake line. Cut off the fittings, and bent it appropriately with a tubing bender. Then I covered it with plastic loom, used for electrical wires, then wire tied it to the engine support rod. The only rubber vacuum hose I have is a 1 inch piece at the back of the manifold, and a 1 inch piece at the vacuum holding tank, connected to the T fitting.

    I would not recommend a Astro Van to anyone, that doesn't have some kind of mechanical experience, but if you can afford to take it to the garage everytime, then get one. I like the way it rides, drives, and handles. The visibilty is good, and is plenty peppy when its running like it should. I had no idea I would spend all my spare time working on this piece of garbage. Its always one thing after another to keep it on the road. I got too much money in it now to get rid of it, or I would.

    My old 1954 chevy had vacuum windshield wipers. This 1995 Astro has everything working off vacuum. Seems to me, there wasn't much improvement on GM's part in the last 41 years.

    Everyone on here dreads taking the internal engine cover off. I had it off 20 times already. I got it down to less than 10 minutes. My problem seems to be, getting the 2 bolts to line up on the firewall. Either i'm to low, or to high. Other than that, it goes back in pretty easily.

    In closing, I have to say, its the biggest piece of junk I ever bought. As i'm typing this, I am looking at my hands and arms, how they are all beat up and scabbed over, from all the sharp edges on everything. I got 27 cuts on my left hand and arm alone. Its just miserable to work on, and I truly wish I would have walked away on the lot, when I seen it...........
  • Sorry to hear about your Astro issues. Just FYI, AutoZone over by my neck of the woods has a tool "rental" program. Basically, you buy the code reader and have 90 days to return it for a full refund. Maybe it's not too late to get your $200.00 back. At the moment, mine is still not running correctly. Advanced Auto is willing to take the injector assembly back but they can't due to the fact that PartsAmerica, the 3rd party vendor that Advanced Auto partners up with for certain parts, can't get their computer system to connect in order to return the part! I've returned to the store 3 times so far. Nothing is ever easy. Anyway, the new fuel pressure regulator didn't seem to do the trick and I'm pretty sure that the injectors are not the problem either. I'm getting codes during idle that reference the crankshaft sensor, the camshaft sensor, multiple misfires in various cylinders, and two O2 sensor heater signal errors. Where the heck do I start? I don't plan on replacing all these sensors... not all at once anyway. I'll be inspecting the distributor a little more closely to test the camshaft sensor tomorrow. I hate to just keep replacing parts and crossing my fingers but crap, this combination of errors doesn't really make sence to me. How can all this crap go bad all at once. My original symptom was missing, rough idle, and occasional stalling ONLY when it's damp outside. That started out as an occasional issue and got progressively worse as time went on. It got to the point that I barley got her home on the last trip. Maybe I need to hire an exorcist.
  • Hope you get this Steve,(your the man)0
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