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Chevrolet/Geo Metro



  • vacuum leak not it sprayed carb cleaner around no change hoses are where they supposed to be .. spark plugs look good ... wires proper resistance... cap think would affect running ability? like i said runs well above idle just wont idle . help!!!
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Well; if we assume your observations, and the assumptions you drew from them are correct; then there isn't anything wrong with the car. And in that case, I flatly can't help you. And neither can anybody else.

    But in my lifelong career as a diagnostic specialist, plus also having owned a Geo Metro for the last 17 years; I have repeatedly found that things are often not quite as clear as they seem to be. And all too often; people dismiss perfectly valid possibilities I suggest because they have not had enough experience to see how they can be so.

    Since I don't know anything about your experience or abilities; I'll start by giving you the benefit of the doubt. So I'll not challenge that anything you claimed is not correct, just yet. Instead, I'll list those things which fit with your description; which could still be issues. The first one is compression: Just because the head was freshly redone doesn't mean that the cam timing has not slipped, or the belt tensioner is not too loose. So I'm respectfully asking you to run a compression check on the motor, at this time (even if you already ran one two days ago). I need to see the actual numbers; not just whether it "passed" or not. Low compression cylinders on a Japanese motor will often only have a noticeable effect on the idle.

    The second possibility; if the ignition timing had been adjusted without having first disabled the electronic advance (by following the manufacturer's instructions about shorting the check connector terminals); the actual timing would come out way too retarded. And that would both screw up the fuel economy and the idle.

    The third unmentioned possibility that fits within what you wrote is that the EGR valve is sticking partly open. This would create a massive vacuum leak at idle; which would go away when the throttle was opened beyond idle. So I suggest removing the EGR valve, and thoroughly cleaning the carbon out of it; and then working the diaphragm through its full travel by hand; to make sure it closes completely every time you let go of the diaphragm. Then confirm that the EGR valve is not receiving a vacuum signal at idle; by disconnecting and plugging the EGR vacuum hose, and seeing if this changes the idle behavior.

    The fourth possibility is that the fuel injector is not closing completely, or the O-ring under the injector has deteriorated; and as a result, fuel from the injector is pouring into the motor when it should be spraying just a fine mist. And both a sticking EGR valve and a sticking or leaking injector would ruin the fuel economy.

    The fifth possibility is that someone has disturbed the factory sealed throttle stop setting on the throttle body; and has set the stop too far closed. This would be compounded if the idle air bypass screw has also been closed too far. And that, too, would mess up both the economy and the idle.

    Sixth; if the throttle position sensor adjustment had been set way too rich (too far clockwise); it would do the same thing.

    But if you have run ALL of the above tests and none of the above points are valid here; then I would say that, even though the spark plugs look good to your eye, and you think that the distributor cap would not be the problem if the motor ran good above idle (by the way; my definition of "running bad" includes getting abnormally poor mileage, even when it 'seems' to be running well) please give ME the benefit of the doubt; and install a new set of Autolite # 63 spark plugs (NO NGK'S HERE, PLEASE) and a new NAPA distributor cap.

    Thank you.
  • well we found it- sorry if we insulted you but we are fairly knolageable just needed some help--and we Thank you for your help -- seams like the new head work may have created to much comprestion for the rings did compresstion test and had 65 in #1 , 35 in # 2 , and 50 in # 3 so any other advise--lol ya not good .. timing marks still lined up-- it wont even run now--just my luck ant one 95 geo with bad motor---lol
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    If you don't mind my saying so; I don't believe that anything you could have done to the head would create so much compression that it would damage the rings. What sounds much more likely to me is that the low compression is being caused by the timing belt having slipped out of position. I understand that you say the timing marks are still lined up; but I've seen Metros where the belt slipped 180 degrees; so the timing marks still looked OK, while the cam was way out of time. The sure test for this is to turn the engine until the timing mark on the crank pulley lines up with the 6 degree BTDC mark on the scale on the timing cover. Then pull the distributor cap and look at the rotor position. The tip of the rotor should only be pointing either straight up, or straight down. If it points anywhere else; the cam timing is off. A confirmation of this test is that if you pull the spark plug in # 1 cylinder (the cylinder closest to the crank pulley) and insert a rod through the plug hole; if the rotor tip points straight up, the piston in # 1 cylinder should be at TDC. If the rotor tip points straight down; the piston in # 1 cylinder should be at bottom dead center. If the piston is anywhere else; the cam timing is off (or the distributor drive tang is not properly engaged with the camshaft).

    One other thing that could cause the cam timing to be off, while the belt is tight and the marks appear to be lined up, would be if the woodruff key that locks the crank gear to the crankshaft has been sheared off; or was not in place when the timing belt was installed. I hope this is helpful.
  • In 1996 Geo Metro 4 cyl. LSI 1.3 liter what could be cause for oil in air filter chamber and leak from there?
    And once you tell us what could be cause what is the solution for that?
    Car has 134K miles on it? does it indicate motor needs to be rebuilt?
    Someone suggested to use sea foam and some one suggested to change PCV valve? Some one else said leaking head valves.
    How much it should cost to fix this?
  • Save your money on the SeaFoam- it will make it worse, and it is only kerosene with some detergent in it.
    The oil is coming in to the air filter housing through your PCV valve, probably due to worn rings.
    It is also possible that it is worn valve guides.
    Or both. Not much to be done about either without a teardown.
    If you are a competent mechanic, you might get by for under $200 in parts and valve job labor, depending on how bad things are. The sky is the limit on what you *can* spend....
  • Hello, hopefully somebody can help. I found an oil leak on the right corner of the oil pan (seeing from the driver’s seat). The oil pan seal was replaced but the leak is still there, the thing is I can’t see where exactly the leak comes from, oil filter is new and dry.The alternator belt is also new. I don’t know if this has something to do with the leak but it came after I removed the AC compressor’s belt (the bearing was broken and replacing the compressor was about the price of the car itself). . I appreciate any comment.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    The most likely source of an oil leak in that area would be a bad front crankshaft oil seal. This is a seal on the end of the crankshaft, in the engine block behind the bottom (smaller) timing belt sprocket. The crank pulley, timing cover, timing belt, and lower sprocket would have to be removed to access that seal. If that seal was bad; it would spray oil all over the timing belt and the inside of the timing cover, which would lead to the belt degrading and eventually failing. It would also cause oil to leak out onto the fan belt pulley and the oil pan.
  • 1996 5/3
    Good (180 all 3 tested today) compression.
    Noise Suppressor
    Injector Resistor
    Plug Wires
    Pickup Coil
    MAP sensor
    MAT sensor

    Timing is 10 BTC, firing order 1-3-2
    Will not start, EXCEPT if I remove #1 spark plug wire- then it will start and idle on 2 cylinders. WTF?
  • Thanks Zanken, do you know if there is a way to diagnostic if the crankshaft seal is bad without removing all these pieces? should be a leak coming from inside the pulley? it's quite difficult to say right? Regards.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Hi again,

    The firing order on that distributor runs COUNTERCLOCKWISE; with the #1 wire located at about 12 o'clock on the cap, and # 1 cylinder being the one closest to the timing belt. If you read the firing order on the cap clockwise from #1; it should be 1-2-3. If that is not the problem; I would change the distributor cap and rotor.

  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    If you use a rag soaked with solvent to thoroughly wipe and clean off all oil and debris from the underside of the pan and the inside surface of the pulley, and then let the motor run in neutral for a while, you should be able to see where the leak is originating from. But if you drive the car before you inspect it, the wind will blow the oil around; and it will be much harder to see where the leak is located. If it is not coming from directly underneath the pulley; the pan gasket may have been damaged or improperly installed; or the sealing surfaces may not have been completely cleaned of old gasket material before the new gasket was installed.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    After further reflection on your problem, I want to add that if my suggestions about the firing order and distributor cap/rotor were not the answer; then this would sound to me like either the spark does not have enough energy to fire the plugs during cranking; or the crankshaft position sensor is bad.. If either the CPS was really bad, or the spark was too weak; then the reflected pulse created by disconnecting the # 1 plug wire would "kick" the system in a similar way to what the CPS is normally designed to do, and the timing of that pulse might be close enough to persuade the engine to start. Since CPS failures are relatively common; that would be the first item I would suspect.

    But if the CPS is not the answer, then I would go through the ignition and electrical system; looking for potential sources of low voltage. The most likely items to check would be:

    Plugs partially fouled, or gaps set too wide; or side electrode, series gap, or surface gap plug being used (all of which would create an excessively high ignition voltage requirement).

    Alternator output low or non-existent

    Battery condition and connections

    Ignition switch has excessive resistance

    Ignition coil primary connections possibly reversed

    Distributor pick up coil air gap set too wide

    Ignition module defective

    I hope this helps!!!
  • The CPS is a possibility- I'll swap it out. I replaced the cap with a higher quality one, thinking that it could be crossing off the #1, but the spark is pretty good (enough to support 75 MPH with no hesitation) now that cap has been replaced.
    I'm now looking at fuel injection- NOT cool. When cold, the manifold is quite wet, a mirror down in the TB does not show anything I would call a spray pattern. I replaced the injector with no change- I think it is not the problem.
    A Noid does not flash when Ignition is turned on, and a test lamp connected to battery and the Yellow/Black wire on the Injector Connector does not flash.
    Swapped ECM- no change.
    At this very moment I am re doing the ECM grounds (thinking of running a parallel wire from battery to grounds on manifold, as well as under the dash), and checking the injection control circuit at the ECM harness- appears to be open.

    I'll keep you posted- it would be really nice to finally solve the problem that has been plaguing me since April.....
  • eric61eric61 Posts: 2
    Hello Everyone.
    So I hooked up the altenator and when I connected the ground to the battery I snapped the big yellow 60 amp fuse sitting next to the battery. I disconnected the big altenator wire, thinking it might be shorted out, but when testing with test light it didn't go on. The test light comes on when I touched the altenator because it is grounded. I got a new fuse and with the battery ground connected I touched the big altenator wire to the altenator connection and a big spark and another $2.99 fuse burned. I pulled off the altenator thinking maybe it's shorted out and took it to the shop where it tested OK. Am I stupid and missing something here? Thanks in advance for help. Eric
  • My 2000 Chevy Metro. had 190,000 mi.s when I bought it. I had the transmission fluid changes when I had the oil changed right after I bought the car. Around 200,000 my transmission started being hard to shift. No noise, just slow and hard. I read on this forum that I should check the grease. I put in Chevy Metro synthetic fluid and the problem went away - it shifts great. However, now I have a jingling noise in 1st thru 4th gear. Is this a big problem?
  • I may be wrong but it seems like your clutch bearing is going.
    Make sure when the mechanic replaces it that he pays particular attention to the seal. He must not slam the tranny in place.

    It happened to me and oil was leaking onto the clutch with the effect that the engine was revving at 5000 and the car not moving.
    good luck of course in finding this irritant.
  • Thanks for the reply!
    I had the entire clutch assembly changed out about a year ago. The clutch feels solid and I have no leaks. This noise is actually amplified in the shifter - kind of a light rattle or jingling. If I hold the shifter to one side it goes away.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    My Metro has done that for years. It comes and goes over time. Seems to be a result of the trans linkage loosening up after many miles of use. Mine becomes less noticeable when the engine runs better and strains less. I would not be surprised if heavy gear oil, which makes shifting more difficult, would reduce that noise. But I certainly would not use heavy gear oil to get rid of that noise. Better to live with the noise and shift easier.

    I'm curious about the Geo synthetic gear oil you mentioned: Is that sold by Chevy dealers? In the US or just in Canada? And what is the brand and viscosity?
  • I got the synthetic oil from a Chevy dealer. I will have to check the brand name and viscosity, but it matches the 'spec lube' for the 2000 Metro. I will reply with the info later.
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