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1963-1964 Cadillacs

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    one car I think looks like it was made for skirts is the '70-72 Monte Carlo

    http://www.phillyedge.com/fileadmin/thumb/590x590/1970_chevrolet_monte_carlo5288- 98.jpg
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    As ugly as that Monte Carlo is the skirts wouldn't matter either way.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,000
    The url shows up at the top of the browser window. on Ebay, when you to any given listing, it usually looks like this:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-Cadillac-Fleetwood-/220613250965?cmd=ViewIte- m&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item335d930f95#v4-36

    However, I've found that if you want to post it, you can usually truncate the post to this:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-Cadillac-Fleetwood-/220613250965

    And, if' you're still unsure, you can always just post the item number of the auction, which in this case is 220613250965

    That way, others can copy that number and paste it in the eBay search, and it will find it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    edited May 2010
    Just never done this before.

    Thie is a 1962 Impala SS but it doesn't compare to the others.

    It does have factory A/C. They don't say but it sure looks like a 283 engine and not the more desirable 327.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-1962-IMPALA-SS-ORIGINAL-W-FACTORY-AIR-/18051- - 2829730?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2a07673122

    Something tells me this won't work but that's OK.

    I do appreciate the help!
  • bhill2bhill2 Posts: 1,357
    They don't say but it sure looks like a 283 engine and not the more desirable 327.

    Actually, they say it's a 283 in the description.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv, 2001 Jaguar XK cnv, 1985 MB 380SE (the best of the lot)

  • omarmanomarman Posts: 711
    What kind of market price is there today for a solid #2 condition 2-door HT 1962 Impala with S/S trim and just a 283 and Powerglide? The white one in the link would need a deduct of some kind for the filthy, "driver" condition of the undercarriage.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    They did? Sorry, missed that.

    The 283's had the rounded valve covers while the 327's were more squared off. That's how I knew.

    Not a bad engine. heck you could have bought that SS with a six!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    edited May 2010
    The white 62 Impala is just a nice driver. Nothing wrong with that.

    It just won't command anywhere near the money of a rarely driven # 2 car.

    Looking again at the photos, the undercarrage isn't that bad but he does need to replace the pinion seal and clean things up.

    I remember pulling out those driveshafts with the center support bearing.

    Pulling them out wasn't too bad but wrestling them back in was no fun!
  • omarmanomarman Posts: 711
    edited May 2010
    I hadn't thought of that in a long time! Friend of mine in high school drove a blue '62 Impala 4-dr sedan. We were on our way to another friend's house to pick him up when the carrier bearing failed. :sick:

    His Impala was the 283/Powerglide and the car had over 100k miles before it happened. I would imagine a bigger engine and/or a 4-speed car would need repairs a bit sooner than that.

    As popular as these cars are even today, I suppose aftermarket parts have made it possible to sort all that out. :shades:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    Yep, the 58-64 full size Chevies used a two piece driveshaft with four U Joints.

    It was supported in the middle with a bearing surrounded by a rubber collar.

    They usually gave quite a bit of warning before they failed completly.

    And, I'll bet a 409 with a four speed would be a bit harder on those parts than that 170 HP 283.

    I had a 409 like that but mine never went bad in the year or so I owned it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,000
    I had to go back and re-read the text from that eBay listing, too. The light orange print didn't help things much, so the first time around I just glossed over it!

    It might not be easy to tell from the pics in that listing, but I seem to remember the badges were a bit different among the V-8's? Didn't the 327 badge on the fender actually say "327", while the 283 just said "V-8"?

    My Dad had a '63 Impala with the hotter 409 setup...425 hp, I think it was? He put "6-cyl" badges on the fenders, just to mess with people!
  • wevkwevk Posts: 179
    The 283 had a V on the front fender, 327 had a V with flags. We had a 1962 SS.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    That's right. the 283's just had the "V" and the 327's had the crossed flags.

    If it had a 409, the 409 numbers were above the crossed flags. Very impressive for me to see as a kid.

    409's were available in three different configurations. One had 340 H.P. the hotter one had 400 H.P. and with two four barrels they put out 425 H.P.

    Mine was a 400 H.P. It had a lot of brute power and torque but a one night a Buick Skylark Gran Sport made it look like a 6 cylinder.

    The Beach Boys made them a bigger deal than they really were.
  • bhill2bhill2 Posts: 1,357
    409's were available in three different configurations. One had 340 H.P. the hotter one had 400 H.P. and with two four barrels they put out 425 H.P.

    Mine was a 400 H.P. It had a lot of brute power and torque but a one night a Buick Skylark Gran Sport made it look like a 6 cylinder.


    I always kinda wondered about that. The 409 was a bored (I think) 348, and the 348 didn't have the reputation of being a performance engine.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv, 2001 Jaguar XK cnv, 1985 MB 380SE (the best of the lot)

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    Yeah, that's about it but that 409 did have a wonderful sound through it's dual glasspacks and it would just pin you back in your seat.

    They were no slugs but there were definatly a lot of cars that could beat one in a race. I did whip a '69 Road Runner one night and that took some doing!

    And there was a certain amount of respect when, at a liight, people would look over and see the "409" above the crossed flage.

    Again, we can thank the Beach Boys for much of that!
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    edited June 2010
    Hate to get back ON topic, but . . . . . . ;)

    Here's a 1964 Coupe Deville in Burbank, CA that a local restoration shop (or someplace like that) came to have and is asking $15,000 OBO. I don't know anything about the car other than what a CLC member who knows this place had to say about it.

    One owner car with documentation, very very nice "vanilla" Cadillac, A/C (cold and working and not converted to r134a). Asking $15K OBO, slightly high but the car is definitely a very roadable time-capsule original car and should, at the least, be at the higher end of the market.

    Not nearly as well-optioned as the '63 Fleetwood, but it's a Coupe Deville and it's a 1964. And, "OBO" implies the seller is open to some reasonable negotiation. Looks pretty decent to me, but these photos are taken from too far away to tell veyr much.

    image

    image

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    That horizontal molding at the bottom and rear of the quarter window would indicate a vinyl top at one time, though it doesn't look like it has one now.

    Bill
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    They wanted to put vinyl tops on everything in those days and they would often be rust traps even in California. Not uncommon to just remove them.

    It looks good. The only gripe I would have would be the color but that's just my subjective opinion.

    Still seems like a lot of money. Maybe I'm out of touch?
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    edited June 2010
    No, that piece of molding is common to all '64 Coupe Devilles (non convertibles). Yeah, not my favorite color either. But, that can be changed. My choice would be to a gold color called Sierra Gold (I believe) which was a standard color that year. That color would also match the interior.

    I can buy that '63 Fleetwood today for the same price ($15,000). The Fleetwood has received some sympathetic restoration and it really is in nice condition. On the other hand, this '64 Coupe Deville is "reported" to be all original. Haven't seen photos of the engine or trunk, but the CLC member said they're both pretty decent. Either way, I think $15,000 is more than I think either is worth.

    What does our intrepid California appraiser think??
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Don't you remember---I handed over the mantle to gbrozen :P

    But I'm sure he's busy with all the other heavy responsibilities of his new office, so I'll take a crack at it.

    64 Caddy Deville Coupe, *very* nice orig, let's say strong #3, low #2 car----I'd hit it at $11,500.00 and I feel I'm being quite fair, given the current market. I bet eBayers would agree with me, too.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Handed over WHAT mantle? Did I miss something???? Did I miss an important memo??? Is Shifty no longer our host with the most?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    No, I volunteered gbrozen for hazardous duty as Assistant Regional Pricing Guru because he's getting pretty good at guessing the final results on eBay auctions. I mean, we are a band of many experts, depending on makes and models. :P

    Of course, NOW he'll have to keep track of the auctions he predicts, in order to maintain his credibility.

    Yes, I am still host (far as I know).

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Oh, okay. Does that mean you won't be offering any more value opinions? I've been a member in the Classic Car forum for a long, long time, but gbrozen's name is not familiar to me. Guess we hang out in different discussions. Looking forward to his input on this '64 Coupe Deville. Did I mention it's a 49K original mile car? And, there is documentation back to the original buyer. This is basically a 1-owner car. The shop selling the car bought it from the original owner.

    image

    My Cadillac Lasalle Club guy "at the scene" in Burbank further reports the following: The engine bay is very clean and there are no signs of major work to the engine or an engine repaint (unless they since touched it up, it didn't need it), the hinges for the hood are completely clean and original with bare steel components and black components, no signs of any paint touch-ups body work or overspray anywhere on the car, the trunk is covered in the original material with some staining but still very presentable. The entire car is untouched and original and looks better in person.

    Finally, a word about the shop selling it. They've had it since around February and they know enough to not touch a thing they don't have to. They did have the front seat out to clean the mechanicals and switches, that was a couple months ago. I think that was the only repair besides the usual fluids and things.

    Does any of this alter anyone's opinion as to it's value?
  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    edited June 2010
    wow, the interior sure looks nice, though maybe the carpets could use some shampooing (big deal). What options does it have (or rather, what does it lack might be a better question)? Does it have tilt and Climate Control, as those were the two big hot-new-things in that era? I can tell it has no PDL (the switches were visible vertically on the door panels), but those were rare then except maybe on Fleetwoods, and on a two-door car, certainly unnecessarly.
    That color combo was apparently pretty popular on '64s, I remember as an early teen going to 'visit' a '64 Sedan de Ville with the same (though it was rusty) on my bike. I was a tank-dreamer even then.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    This one has working A/C. Pretty sure it doesn't have tilt wheel or cruise control. It does have the full leather interior, which I'm pretty sure was an option upgrade over and above a standard leather/cloth combo. Again, I'm not crazy about the color. Can't remember if I mentioned this or not, but I'd eventually change the color to a factory Sierra Gold.

    Admittedly, I'd prefer a few more options which is why I like Fleetwoods, plus I really like their long 4-door styling (yes, I'm "special" :P ) Some have questioned the coupe's styling, but I like it. And, a coupe is as "sporty" as a 1963-64 Cadillac could get. ;) The main thing that attracts me to this car is that it looks to be a pretty solid, unmolested, original, low-mileage (relatively) car - which is getting to be more rare.

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    49K original miles is a pretty bodacious claim. Based upon what evidence?

    Also, I'm very leery of reports from club guys. They tend to vastly inflate a car merits, because they are not impartial, they are in love. This does not at all infer dishonesty, only that their eyes tend to pick things that reinforce their love and to be selectively blind to anything that besmirches the image of the beloved.

    It would be good to have a photo of underneath---that would tell a story or two.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Supposedly, this car has documentation back to the original owner - of which, I believe, there has only been one (other than the shop in Burbank that is now in possession and trying to sell it). So, I would imagine the 49K miles can be proven and it is something I would want confirmation on.

    Actually, I think a club member would be a good judge of quality/condition. Through national and regional shows/meets, these guys have usually seen the good, bad and the ugly and thus have a pretty good knowledge base to work from. Plus, if they have familiarity with a particular year, then tend to know what trouble areas to look for. I agree that their value opinions can be a influenced by their love of the marque, but that's a different issue.

    BTW, how often does our new "valuation expert" check into the Classic Car forum? Haven't heard from him yet.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    It's funny how tastes can vary.

    Personally I think that gold color was by far the WORST color that car could be painted and a color change would really hurt that car's value!

    The beige is fine. Woudn't be my first choice but still, not gaudy (like gold) and very tastful.

    I think changing a color on ANY car is a mistake and it would cost probably 5000.00 to do it "right".

    Others may disagree with me.

    After looking at the rear shot of that Cadillas I do believe that all of them had that chrome piece around the roofline.

    Price wise, I'm not the expert our HOST is but I was thinking 10-11,000 would be all of the money.

    When I was a kid just working for Sears, my boss had a black 1964 Coupe De Ville. One day he had me run an errand with him. I remember, we were in Palos Verdes CA in a narrow two lane road when he got irrated at a slow moving car in front of him. He florred the Caddy and passed the car on a blind curve.

    Thankfully, nobody was coming.

    A nice car Parm!
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,603
    parm - that was a joke regarding the 'new' estimator, just to point out his good recent estimates....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    edited June 2010
    It looks like a really nice car.

    I'm very dubious of club member evaluations. They are GREAT for authentication but generally not very good at knowing market value. They tend to overvalue their cars considerably, so I'd rely on them for knowing what is "correct" but not for what to pay. Certainly they are a good tool in your toolbox.

    If the miles could be proven beyond a doubt (which is not easy to do), then it's a question of a) how much extra do you want to pay for low miles and b) what do you do with an ultra low miles car?

    If you drive it, then you decrease the very thing you paid extra for. If you don't drive it, then you sit in a beach chair on a lawn every weekend and talk about how low the miles are. Wheeee!

    I guess I'd value the car at between $12,000 and $13,500, or maybe in a highly attended auction house, $15,000. (top retail).

    This would presume that underneath justifies the mileage claims. If the miles are true, this means it was driven under 1000 miles a year and/or in storage a good deal of the time, so we have to worry about hard seals in engine/trans, and deteriorated lines, hoses, etc.

    A low mileage car is strictly a cosmetic and historical asset. It is a mechanical liability IMO.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

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