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Chrysler Allies With Fiat

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,152
    Heck, if it's big enough to suit my needs, and I like the way it looks in person, I'd consider one. My real lust right now is a Charger, though, although if I do make the spring for a new car, it would probably be something a bit more frugal/economical.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,444
    Really?? Unless you're a Mopar fanatic,

    You DO remember who you are talking to, right? :D

    Andre - you are the first one I thought of when I hear this.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Oh I know who I'm talking to.

    I use "you're" in the euphamistic manner as in "the collective world".
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,341
    edited December 2011
    For those who remember the old generation Darts, I think "Dart" has a positive connotation, overall. Some associate it with stodgy and boring, but Valiants and Darts were arguably the best compacts available in their day.

    I think it's a smart move to revive the old name for Dodge's '13 compact. Of course, how the car leverages the name will depend on the product, as comparisons will surely be made between the new and old Darts.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    I think it's a smart move to revive the old name for Dodge's '13 compact.

    I think it's a smart move but not for the reason you list. The target market will have zero recollection of the old Dart that went away close to 40 years ago. That's why it's smart to re-use it. The last boring Dart won't act as baggage for this modern vehicle. The Dart name today will be marketed as an agile, swift vehicle as the name implies.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,152
    The Dart name today will be marketed as an agile, swift vehicle as the name implies.

    I wonder if mischievous youngsters will try to pry the "D" off, and fit it with the "F" off of a Ford product, like they would occasionally do back in the day? :P
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Probably not as I think few automakers actully use individual letters for the badges anymore.

    I saw a Passat wagon the other day (not mine) that the owner removed the "A" and replaced it with the "T" with it's arms removed. "PISSA" to us Bostonians means something that is too cool ie Tom Brady is a wicked pissa quarterback.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,976
    The H you say. :D

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Does Honda use individual letters still?
  • berriberri Posts: 4,275
    The target market will have zero recollection of the old Dart that went away close to 40 years ago.

    Probably true. But those that do will be a positive because the Dart always had a reputation as a good, reliable decent looking vehicle back then.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,976
    At least on the front, as does Hyundai.

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Probably true. But those that do will be a positive because the Dart always had a reputation as a good, reliable decent looking vehicle back then.

    But will those 70-90 year olds be out there buying Darts?

    I'm under 50 and remember the last Darts. Good looking is not an attribute I'd use to describe them. IMHO they were neutered refreshes of the late 60's Dart.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,697
    But those '60s Darts weren't exactly all recycling fodder by the time some of us young'ins started driving. I'm under 40 but have some good memories of a '64 and, I believe, a '68 Dart growing up.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,152
    I'm under 50 and remember the last Darts. Good looking is not an attribute I'd use to describe them. IMHO they were neutered refreshes of the late 60's Dart.

    You really have to consider the whole Dart history though, and not just focus on those few sad final years. Using the final Dart to sum up the whole lineup is like picking 1974 to represent the Mustang or GTO!

    I'd imagine most people under 50, when they think of a Dart, are going to think of the hot '67-69 models, which sported engines on up to the 440 Wedge and 426 Hemi, or the 340 and 360 powered Swingers, Demons, and Dart sports of the 70's. They're not going to be thinking about Grandpa's baby-poop brown '76 Dart Custom sedan with the slant six and the AM-only radio!

    Also, the Dart seemed to hang around for a long, long time after 1976. Used examples were plying the streets and a common sight long after most equivalent cars had been disposed of. So, it might still be fairly fresh in the memory of lot more younger people than something like an old Nova, Falcon, or Granada might be.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Your opinion doesn't count - you'd fight to the death to protect the image of a Volare!! Admit it - you would.

    I guess my memories of muscle car Darts have been replaced by my uncle's poop brown 76 sedan. To think he replaced a GTO with that.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,152
    Your opinion doesn't count - you'd fight to the death to protect the image of a Volare!! Admit it - you would.

    Well, the Volare had its good points and bad. The '76-77 models were horrible rusters, but in '78-80 they were no worse than anything else out there.

    My grandmother's cousin had a '79 Volare wagon, two-tone black over silver with a red interior, that was actually pretty sharp looking. She wanted to sell it in 1996, and I would've bought it, but another family member beat me to it. It was still shiny and rust-free by that time, but IIRC, the passenger door wouldn't open, the a/c didn't work, and the headliner was sagging. But she only wanted $300 for it.

    So instead, I bought a 1979 Newport I found in the junkyard for $250. Still ran good, but the transmission was shot.

    I guess my memories of muscle car Darts have been replaced by my uncle's poop brown 76 sedan. To think he replaced a GTO with that.

    My grandparents on my Dad's side of the family had a '75 Dart Swinger, in a light creme/beige color. It used to stall out on them all the time, and the dealer never could fix it, so they traded it on a new Granada in '77, which promptly ate its transmission. But instead of dwelling on that '75 Dart, I try to block it from my memory! :P

    And, to be fair, it was 1975. I have a feeling just about anything you bought in '75 would've been crap. Although, my Mom bought a new LeMans that year, and other than needing a new distributor within a year or two, it wasn't bad. Until Dad hit a tree with it in '77. It got fixed, but never ran right after that. :sick:
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Well, the Volare had its good points and bad. The '76-77 models were horrible rusters, but in '78-80 they were no worse than anything else out there.

    See I told you that you could defend the Volare. Now justify the Chrysler TC by Maserati!!

    :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,152
    See I told you that you could defend the Volare. Now justify the Chrysler TC by Maserati!!

    No. I have to draw the line somewhere! :shades:

    Oh, and back on the Volare tangent. In 1994 I looked at a '78 or '79 that someone was selling locally. It was a coupe, had the 360-4bbl, and was rust-free, although it had a big dent in one of the rear quarters, and the ignition was busted, so you could start it by sticking anything that would fit in there. Seller only wanted $500 for it.

    I drove it, and thought it was inferior in just about every way to the '68 Dart I was driving at the time.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,976
    "1989 Chrysler TC by Maserati: Stupid combination of front-drive K-Car bits, indifferent Maserati assembly in Italy and a two-seat roadster body that was indistinguishable from a LeBaron. It's both the worst Maserati and worst Chrysler ever."

    It made #15 on IL's 100 Worst Cars of All Time.

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  • berriberri Posts: 4,275
    remember the last Darts. Good looking is not an attribute

    Well Robr, like many other models that hang around the later ones get long in the tooth. But during the 60's and early 70's I'd see a lot of these cars on college campuses and military basis. Not high income people, but a lot of younger people in those demographics. You've got to compare it to comparables of the time like Nova (another decent looker for its price back then), Falcon, Maverick, etc. It wasn't in the same price and market as say a Cutlass or Camaro. I think one advantage Dart had in its segment was the availability of a 2 dr HT model and it had a relatively decent interior for its class as well.

    But will those 70-90 year olds be out there buying Darts?

    Well, seriously they won't be buying a lot of cars, period. I agree its market demographics will likely be younger buyers, but some older buyers, particularly in urban markets, still buy a small car.

    Now I believe you are in the Boston area, so I don't see you as a perspective buyer. Driving in that town you need some metal around you because the lack of following the road laws means its like driving bumper cars there, right? But heck, you're airport can be a challenge too!
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,043
    Now I believe you are in the Boston area, so I don't see you as a perspective buyer. Driving in that town you need some metal around you because the lack of following the road laws means its like driving bumper cars there, right? But heck, you're airport can be a challenge too!

    Yes I'm in Boston. You don't need metal around you - what you need are nerves of steel, the unwillingness to blink and an understanding of how we interpret the rules of the road.

    As for the airport, it was just named the most social airport in the country as more people check facebook at Logan than any other airport in the country. I attribute that to the delays.

    Back on topic - you're probably right. I'm not a prospective Dart customer - at least not for myself.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,275
    Funny! Sometimes Logan approaches need nerves of steel too.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,444
    Proper car for driving in Boston:

    image
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,444
    Ya know, that 100 worst list is a little hard to take with a Trabant only finishing in 9th place.....
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,976
    And no Freelander. What were they thinking?

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,341
    It could be argued that, with the considerable help from the bankruptcy, Fiat saved Chrysler. It now appears that Chrysler's resurgence may save the ailing Fiat Group. Interesting how things work out!

    If Chrysler and Fiat ultimately merge, as planned, and survive or thrive, Sergio Marchionne's vision and ability to execute will deserve much of the credit.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,976
    Yep, Europe's economy is hurting but Chrysler's US sales are up 20%.

    Chrysler's April up 20%, GM down 8.2%, Ford down 5% (Detroit News)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,175
    I saw my first Fiat 500C up close at the bank yesterday. Asked the owner what he thought. He loves driving it, though it is his wife's and he has to fight for every chance behind the wheel. It was just half the length of my Nissan Frontier PU.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,341
    From today's Detroit Free Press...

    "Fiat and Mazda said today they have agreed to form an alliance to codevelop a roadster, or two-seat sports car, to be built at Mazda’s plant in Hiroshima, Japan, starting in 2015.

    The memorandum of understanding calls for the development and production of a new roadster for the Mazda and Alfa Romeo models based on Mazda’s next-generation MX-5. The two automakers also said they have agreed to discuss additional opportunities for cooperation in Europe..."

    Could this be the percursor to a broader alliance, or, possibly, an eventual merger between Fiat-Chrysler and Mazda?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,976
    GMTA. :-)

    steve_, "Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?" #1970, 23 May 2012 6:15 am

    Broader alliance yes. Don't think a merger is in the cards (unless Sergio can get Mazda for free). I bet they follow the route that Mazda and Ford carved out; that seemed to work well.

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