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Article Comments - 2009 BMW 335d Full Test

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Comments

  • Car's a might "busy" (as we say in the interior design business). ;)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,027
    The Alpinas of that era weren't known for their subdued appearance, that's for sure...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    Only trouble with the E46 was that my head kept hitting the grab handle to my left above the door frame. Even without a sunroof it was just too tight.
  • kyfdx@Edmundskyfdx@Edmunds Posts: 25,965
    Yeah.. that's the one I'm talking about, also...

    I really, really like that car....

    Maybe it's because it came out at the time I first started shopping for new cars for myself..... If you had to buy any late '70s car, then the E21 was a totally amazing driving experience... Unfortunately, it was hard to buy one when you were making $3.35/hr.... :P

    In hindsight, it's easy to pick at it, especially since it was followed by the E30... but, it was a great car at the time.. Not to mention, the US version of the E30 pretty much sucked until they started shipping over the sixes.. And, that six wasn't much loved, either... It wasn't until the "i" motors started coming over in '87, until the E30 really hit it's stride..

    To sum up... I love the E21.. can you find me a rust-free example? :surprise:

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You make a good point about the pre-87 E30s.

    My uncle had an E21 and he let me drive it when we took a trip together from Dallas to Oklahoma back in the early 80's (I don't remember what city). I think it was a liquor run (tax free in OK?), but I digress.

    I remember at the time that I thought it was a fantastic car and I'm sure it was - for it's day. Trouble is, compared to the E30 and newer 3ers, the cheap interior, underpowered engine, and poor rust protection (to name a few) put it at the bottom of my scale. If I wanted a pre-E30 BMW, I'd get a 2002. Between the 2002 and the E30, the E21 is a logical progression, but looking back on the progression now, the E21 is a [non-permissible content removed] step-child - possessing none of the strengths/benefits of each in enough degree to choose it.

    That's how I see it anyways.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    anyone want to talk about the article that's the subject here? ;)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Pat, I think a discussion about how far the 3-series line has strayed from it's origins (and the path it's taken along the way) with the 335d - arguably the most un-3-like 3 series yet - is a logical discussion in response to the article.

    You gotta admit, a low-revving, 4000 lb gross weight, twin-turbo torque monster isn't exactly your father's 325i... :surprise:
  • how far the 3-series line has strayed from it's origins (and the path it's taken along the way) with the 335d - arguably the most un-3-like 3 series yet

    Keep in mind, outside the US the 4-cylinders and diesels often sell as well as the I-6. Just a more refined daily driver than a performance car to most people worldwide.

    Pick a random car.... Lets say one year the performance model outsells the base model, so the base model is discontinued. 20 years of:

    Only Challenger is the R/T and SRT-8
    Only Mustang is the GT and GT500
    Only Mazda is the MS3 and MS6
    Only Subaru is the WRX and STI

    If you offered only the performance model of any car, it starts to develop a habitual opinion of what it really is. Wouldn't change the fact that it can still be had in an entry-level model if produced.

    So it is with BMW as well. The 3-series is really a versatile platform.
  • Keep in mind, outside the US the 4-cylinders and diesels often sell as well as the I-6. Just a more refined daily driver than a performance car to most people worldwide.

    Sells as well as the I-6... That's a pretty optimistic guess. In Europe almost one out of two 3er is a 320d. A four cylinder diesel, yes... And the I-6s compose maybe the 20% percent of sales.. 6 cylinders are rare over here, believe it or not..
  • Sells as well as the I-6... That's a pretty optimistic guess. In Europe almost one out of two 3er is a 320d. A four cylinder diesel, yes... And the I-6s compose maybe the 20% percent of sales.. 6 cylinders are rare over here, believe it or not..

    I couldn't find anything for Europe outside of Britain, so I wasn't going to get ambitious with my estimates. But thanks for extra info.

    It sounds perfectly natural for the eco-focused mid-size to out-sell the performance model when offered. You still get the same style car, even if you don't have a heavy right foot.

    I'm willing to bet the I-4 mid-size outsells the V/I-6 for almost every automaker when offered. And in time, that would repeat itself for the 3-series in the US.
  • The situation has changed much in the recent years. With the continuosly increasing petrol prices and the re-introduction of diesel engines, the portion of larger disp. I-6 engines in overall sales decreased significantly. In Europe some countries also have a tax barrier for larger engines.
    But the quality of 2.0 Liter diesel engine plays also a big role for the dominance of four pot diesel. You should taste the machine, it absolutely goes like a 6 cylinder gas-powered BMW! With 177hp and 257 lb-ft, this machine blows the 320i easily, which is a fine 2.0L 170hp engine.

    I'm willing to bet the I-4 mid-size outsells the V/I-6 for almost every automaker when offered.

    That's the absolute truth for Europe. All the big volume models for premium the segment are those 4 cylinder engines. 318d, 320d, 318i, 320i - C200 Kompressor, C220 CDI - A4 1.8T, A4 2.0T, A4 2.0 TDI... Those cars are everywhere, but you should be looking for some time to see, let's say, a 330i or an A4 3.2 FSI.
  • The MB diesel is rated at 400lb-ft compared to the twin turbo BMW's 425. I'd be happy with either.
  • I'm actually disappointed that the 3.0 TDI in the A4 only produces 369 lb-ft.

    The same engine in the Q7 produces 406 lb-ft.

    I think it would be more competittive if they offered similar figures to the BMW and MB. Not that it's entirely necessary, but when you're window-shopping cars those figures matter.
  • dino6dino6 Posts: 7
    "Not that it's entirely necessary, but when you're window-shopping cars those figures matter. "

    When window shopping while sitting on an easy chair, via car magazines, yes.

    When it comes time to sign the dotted line on a new car, I or anyone else that I know never make a decision based on test numbers or raw specs. I doubt that many people out there actually will buy a car simply because it has a 0-60 0.5 second faster than a competitor, or has a slightly higher rated hp or torque figure. Making a decision is a lot more wholistic. I've known many a car enthusiast that picked a car because it looked nicer, or their mother-in-law liked it better, over a competitor that had slightly better test numbers or specs. Which makes it a bit overblown when car publications make too much of the figures.
  • You're wrong. We're not talking magazine tests here, because the 3.0 TDI won't even be tested against the 335d.

    Its not even in the same category, and I wish it was. I'd much rather have an S4-class diesel, and I'm perfectly justified in saying that.

    When you're talking a a 50hp and 80tq difference between the Audi and BMW diesels, you're talking 2 entirely different classes of car. That's written on the wall.

    I would take an S4 over a 335i, regardless of the minor differences in performance between 2 cars in the same class. But if there were no S4, I wouldn't drop down to the A4 3.0 FSI.

    Hell yes that big of a performance difference matters. I don't have to go test-drive the A4 3.0 FSI to know its going to feel slower than a 335i on most days.

    If there were no Audi in the class of the 335i, and I wanted something in that class, I pick the 335i. Simple.

    So it is with the 335d. There is no Audi in its class in the US.

    The early diesel enthusiasts will not be picking their car of choice because it comes in blue.
  • I had a 524TD in 1986 that got 42 MPG on the highway and did 0-60 in 11 secs !!!

    WOW - the 335TD is such an improvement!!!! And that torque!!!!! WOW - again. It has to feel almost like a turbine or jet when accelerating with that torque from such low rpms.

    I will have to try one. For a highway cruiser the 524TD was awesome - 600 mile cruising range
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    For a highway cruiser the 524TD was awesome - 600 mile cruising range

    I would love that. With my gas guzzling Sequoia you have to start thinking about gas at 350 miles. And the BMW X5 diesel just blows that Toyota gas hog off the road. Not even close to the same acceleration. That is what 110 more ft lbs of torque will do for you. Not to mention it should easily get double the mileage out on the road. Wish I could justify trading in a 1.5 year old vehicle.
  • And from the article:

    Fuel cost is a wash. In this case, less fuel consumption cancels the price premium of diesel fuel

    Of course, that changes a lot depending on where you are. First, I'm not sure that the math even makes sense with national averages, but ignoring that. I just got back from a trip to San Diego, and at least over there, diesel was the same price as mid-grade unleaded. I'm pretty sure that most BMWs take premium, no?

    Then again, what are the odds that folk in CA would be interested in a high-mpg BMW that still gets 0-60 in around 5-1/2 seconds?
  • Times are indeed a'changin - again - as far as fuel costs go.

    Diesel's rightful place is really not that different from petrol. If fuel prices stabilize, this is about what we should see for months if not years... with a capital IF.

    Right now, owning a diesel vehicle can be quite favorable cost-wise.

    But I still contend that the #1 reason to pay the $700-2000 premium for a car, or $5000-7000 for a truck powered by diesel...

    is...

    the...

    torque!

    Love the feel of more torque than you can extract with your right foot without breaking loose your tire(s) and/or reversing the rotation of the earth.
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    Agree. Fuel savings really aren't the issue. If you can afford the wretched thing in the first place, it's really about the driving experience. I just don't find the gasoline 3 series with automatic very satisfying -- too much hunting for gear and never really settling down, but the diesel produces a strangely teutonic take on the thump of Detroit cubic inches married to a modern chassis. It's truly different.
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