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Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,009

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    He's right, though.

    Nobody reads the corrections/apology on the bottom of page 6, in small print.

    They take the headline and run with it. Most readers only scan the paper and don't even read the whole story. They'll tell their friends "See? Those EVs still can't go very far".
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I cannot believe anyone with that much money to spend on a car would base their buying on one review from a rag like the NYT. As far as the stock price I watched Apple lose over $250 billion in value over various reports. Some legitimate some not. That is part of doing business. Sounds like a whiny exec.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here's video.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/26/musk-says-new-york-times-debacle-may-have-cos- t-tesla-100/

    NYT has a pretty big circulation. I also would not overestimate the intelligence of the car buying public. ;)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    The point is saying the stock price went down $100 million is meaningless. The bottom line is how many cars they sell and the EPS of the stock. The stock price can go up and down on a whim. Not really relevant to sales. Sounds to me like they are trying to churn up some cash. They have teetered on the brink of BK for a decade. We have given them way more than a $100 million tax payer dollars and they are still not building them with American labor.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True but it does affect the interest rates he'll get from private borrowers after he pays off the government loans early (at least he says that's his plan).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Do you really think those loans will ever be paid off? I would expect BK within a year and the Chinese buying the parts for pennies on our tax dollars. Just the same as the battery maker for Tesla, A123. We give them a truck load of money and the execs live like Kings and we get little or nothing in return.

    Bankrupt Tesla CEO Buys $17 Million Mansion After Receiving $465 Million Taxpayer-Funded Bailout
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Look at your source...no wonder.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,859
    It's a satire site, kind of odd.

    Although I do think Musk, being a zillionaire, should have been made to use more of his own fortune for his pet project. But that's how we roll here - socialize losses, privatize winnings.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Would you rather read it in Forbes?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahelliott/2012/12/28/tesla-and-spacex-founder-mu- sk-buys-17-million-bel-air-mansion/

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/questions-about-electric-cars-as-a-manufa- cturer-struggles/

    My issue is based on the fact that the green agenda is directly tied to campaign contributions. I don't like spending $140,000 to build an EV that some fat cat buys for $97k then gets a tax credit of $7500. That is what is wrong with this country.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/28/Tesla-CEO-Buys-17-Million-Man- sion-Got-465-Million-Govt-Loan
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Would you rather read it in Forbes?

    YES.

    Of course!

    And NO to NYT as a source. How lame that all they could say is their writer failed to use "good judgement" when he wrote a piece of fiction.

    Elon makes very little from Tesla, in fact he's the lowest paid automotive CEO I can think of.

    He makes the big bucks from the SpaceX gig.

    Notable is that Forbes does not imply that the government's money paid for the house. You can't buy a 27M mansion making less than half a million a year.

    Only a source that should not be taken seriously would make that claim...

    NYT and the other source should be tossed. Better yet you really shouldn't be reading that garbage to begin with.

    So yes, I'd rather read the real story in Forbes.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Notable is that Forbes does not imply that the government's money paid for the house. You can't buy a 27M mansion making less than half a million a year.

    So why does someone worth $2.4 billion need our $465 million in tax dollars to finance his EV scam. It does seem suspicious that he closed on the house soon after getting the tax payers money. Of course the discounted price was on the stipulation that the owner get his money in 2012 to take advantage of the lower CG taxes last year.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2012/12/21/elon-musk-goes-from-renter-to-owner- -in-bel-air/
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,306
    A little data about Tesla and our (my) tax money:
    Tesla Motors – Received $465 million in stimulus, of which over $16 million went into the pockets of 2 owners.

    •Elon Musk: Obama donor, DNC donor. Tesla Motors Founder. Also CEO of Solar City which received its own $275 million in stimulus funding. Between Solar City and Tesla Motors, Musk personally pocketed $15 million immediately after receiving their stimulus.
    •Steve Westly: Tesla Motors CEO. Pocketed $1.2 million immediately after their stimulus payment.
    •Steve Spinner: Tesla ‘consultant’. Obama donor, DNC donor. Then appointed to an executive position within the Dept of Energy.
    •Nicholas Pritzker: Part owner of Tesla Motors. Obama donor. Related to a number of Obama advisors and high-profile donors.
    •Sergei Brin: Part owner of Tesla Motors. Obama supporter.
    •Larry Page: Google CEO, Part owner of Tesla Motors. Obama supporter.
    •Eric Schmidt: Part owner of Tesla Motors and Obama administration advisor.
    •Dan Reicher: Part owner of Tesla Motors and Obama administration advisor.

    Things you won't get at CBS and ABC
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Do you really think he's committing fraud to buy a house valued at 1% of his net worth?

    He was already living there. He wanted to pimp it out, so he had to buy it to make those changes.

    Maybe he'll build a landing pod for his space ship. LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    From a source that labels the story "stimulus scandal", and look at the author - hardly balanced.

    You guys really need better sources.

    If you lean conservative at least try Politico.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Now that I think about it, I bet he wanted to install quick charging stations in his garage, too.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,306
    >least try Politico.

    You gotta be kidding. May as well try ABC/CBS if you want biased info. Maybe for the beltway folks they like NBC and the others. :blush: :P
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    You guys really need better sources.

    I went with NYT as liberal as they come and that was not to your liking. Anyone that can look at the $billions spent on the Green Agenda and not see the corruption, are not looking very hard. Or they live in a fog. Of course you are not likely to see the truth on MSM like MSNBC. Thankfully there are a lot of people digging deep to expose the corruption in our state and Federal governments. None any worse than the EV scams. Unless a vehicle is profitable on its own merit it should not be subsidized. That little tax break on the Prius and others was a pittance compared to what has happened in the last few years.

    Tesla cost to tax payers $140,000 each
    Volt cost to tax payers $250,000 each.
    Those are unsustainable giveaways to the rich.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    People around DC live off the rest of US. Low unemployment and robust economy. They need to have 35% of the Nations welfare recipients like CA has to understand the mess this country is in.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They're not exactly spinning it in favor of Elon, check out this story:

    SpaceX, based in Hawthorne, Calif., and Orbital Sciences, based in Dulles, Va., are under NASA contract, worth up to $3.5 billion, to lift 40 tons of cargo to the International Space Station over 20 flights.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60259.html#ixzz2M8M2UgZY
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    What's not to my liking is any writing with an agenda.

    The story on the Tesla set out, from the get go, to discredit EVs. There was no intent to gather any facts, just to see exactly how much lying Broder/NYT could get away with.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    The story on the Tesla set out, from the get go, to discredit EVs. There was no intent to gather any facts, just to see exactly how much lying Broder/NYT could get away with.

    Welcome to the 21st Century. The very reason I quit watching TV in 2006. It is mostly lies and half truths. A person has to look at every source and try to squeeze out the truth. Many times it is totally lost in the process. I could spend days trying to find out the real truth about Musk and the $17,000,000 in cash to buy that house. Sure he is worth a supposed $2.4 billion. Is that on paper minus the $100,000,000 he was whining about?

    I don't get worked up about a few million in research grants to universities. When you hand half a billion to a Solyndra and a few months later they file for bankruptcy. And leave a HUGE environmental mess for the tax payers to clean up. Or bail out Tesla to the tune of half a billion. I get ticked off.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Solyndra has been the poster boy but Telsa does appear to be paying the loans back early, so I wouldn't group them together.

    Fisker is a mess. If anyone wants to criticize EVs, and wants to be accurate, bust on them all you want.

    I respect Elon Musk - he took no crap, called them out. Good for him.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    GM targets 20% increase in plug-in hybrid output this year


    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130227/OEM05/302279869#ixzz2M8hojBb5
    Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    If Tesla makes enough money to pay off our loan the stock will bounce back. Right now it is losing $3.70 per share. Hardly a company I would buy with or without the bad press from NYT. The stock is only down about 10% from its all time peak. Think about Apple, it is down 30% on negative comments in the media. And they have $137 BILLION in cash. Musk just needs to sell cars and quit whining about the media. Only 6% of US citizens believe the media anyway.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/februar- y_2013/only_6_rate_news_media_as_very_trustworthy
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Maybe they're smarter than we give them credit for. ;)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,708
    edited March 2013
    I respect Elon Musk - he took no crap, called them out. Good for him.

    I think the man has done a great job and I like that he works so hard to promote his company. He cares about making a great car, I would love a Tesla S sedan, that is an awesome all-electric car. It looks sharp, looks to have plenty of room inside, and it is all-electric. Sure, it's $49,000.

    I sincerely hope that Tesla Motors succeeds. ;)

    image
    Tesla S sedan

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Sure, it's $49,000.

    That was what they projected it to sell for. The 2012 shows a base price of $59k. I don't know how many they sold at that price. Now the "S" has a base price of $97k. It is a rich man's toy subsidized by US tax payers. I doubt we ever see a Tesla for under $50k.
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