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Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    DI has done wonders for even base engines in some cars. At that point you get diminishing returns, given only a small % of your TCO is for fuel.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Looks like they dropped the smallest capacity battery since 96% of people wanted the bigger ones:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/01/tesla-model-s-demand-exceeds-expectations-4- 0-kwh-model-nixed/
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,562
    Wellll - they never advertised them, or listed them as being available (see the Jalopnik article). I don't doubt they wouldn't make money on them, these are expensive cars to make, regardless.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    It may have been the 20 mile range of the cheapo S? :P

    I like they way they are handling those cheap customers. Programming the computer to only give them the miles a base model was advertised for. Yet giving them the next level battery. They run out of juice and call in the dealer can sell them enough juice to get home and kick them up to the next model. That will be $10,000 service charge, plus tax.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    20 miles down hill on a warm day. ;)

    That's OK, my commute is 13 miles and work has charging stations. I'll take one of those unwanted ones off their hands for free.

    I'm an IT guy so I'll find some sort of hack.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    edited April 2013
    The Tesla lease calculator is hilarious, such weird things like valuing time not spent at a gas station at $100/hr. Almost kind of April-Foolsy, but they are serious. Also, basing resale on the S-class, which doesn't exactly retain a ton of value, is worrisome.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They should charge for the time spent looking for charging stations and waiting for the car to charge. ;)

    Plus, the numbers were wrong, they adjusted them slightly upward. Stock prices down, DOH!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    I was thinking the same thing. You can't meander up to a charging station like you can a gas station. Some goofy logic there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Now Elon is trying too hard. Perhaps winning that last battle pumped up his ego (which was already swollen).
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    Time for some more publicly funded backing?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If they claim to be profitable then let them free wheel, I say.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,562
    I hadn't noticed the absurdity of claiming an EV advantage over that LOOONG time we spend at the gas station.

    He's burning credibility with stunts like that, no need to, comes across as desperate.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    A claimed 15 minutes to use the gas station, in fact. Can't recall ever spending so long at one, even if I used the loo or got something to eat. That time billed at $100/hr is just batty. Add to it the subsidies, and he can be hard to like.

    If Musk had true faith, why isn't it backed 100% with his own gigantic mountain of gold? It will end yet again with the public acceptance of risk for private gain, that's capitalism.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    You can't meander up to a charging station like you can a gas station. Some goofy logic there.

    I can remember a lot of people saying diesel is hard to find. Not even, compared to a charging station.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think it's a mistake to pitch the Tesla as a road trip car. Who stops for 3-4 hours in the middle of a trip? No one I know.

    It's for local use only, for practical purposes.

    When you try to stretch something beyond its ideal purpose, the results can't be good.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,376
    Agreed. There's nothing wrong with just acknowledging the limitations. Bleeding edge is always a compromise, but it doesn't stop people from buying new tech.

    I will give Tesla credit for trying to put some kind of charging infrastructure in place. Its not perfect, but its a start. The expense must be astronomical.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,433
    "Troubled Fisker Automotive reportedly fired almost all of its remaining staff this morning as the boutique maker of the premium Fisker Karma plug-in hybrid sedan struggles with rapidly mounting debt.

    An unnamed source who attended Friday's termination meeting told the Reuters news service that about 160 employees are affected and that Fisker will retain about 53 senior managers and executives, primarily to pursue buyers for the company's assets."

    Downward Spiral Continues for Troubled Fisker Automotive

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    More borrowed dollars down the toilet. Worst part is it was never built here as promised. A scam from the get go. They should take the money they owe US out of Fisker's hide. He bailed and with how much of our money? Bad enough we let our own con men rip US off. This guy is a foreigner.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    He's a stylist not an engineer. No wonder his plan never worked.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    He is a con artist. He got our tax dollars to build a factory in Finland. Not much different than GE and a bunch of other greedy corporate thieves.

    Fisker laid off 160 of its roughly 210 employees Friday morning from its Anaheim, Calif., location, according to Automotive News.

    Employees told the publication they were given no severance pay besides compensation for unused vacation days.

    According to the class action suit filed by Outten & Golden, in a California district court, Fisker failed to notify the employees 60 days in advance, violating the federal U.S. Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act and a similar state WARN Act.


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/06/report-obama-backed-fisker-lays-offs-- workers-faces-suit-by-solyndra-related/
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    edited April 2013
    You get the justice you pay for. Corporations are people too. Faux would agree.

    Shame too, as IMO, the Fisker was a lot nicer looking than any other EV. Shame about the self-immolation tendencies.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    That reads like an op/ed, no surprise.

    What was said the AN did not say? It is a case of politics. That is how the money is handed out to all these crooks and thieves. Paybacks for campaign contributions. As a tax payer I am tired of wasting Millions per job created. Most turn out very short term, just long enough to get someone elected. Here from CBS:

    Each New Obama "Green" Job Will Cost Taxpayers $135,295

    According to the White House, $2.3 billion in tax breaks have been awarded to manufacturers that are going to create "green jobs."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28043618/each-new-obama-green-job-will-co- st-taxpayers-135295/

    How much have we handed out for the very small handful of EV/hybrids so far? Last I read the Volt cost US about $250K each.

    Nearly two years after the introduction of the path-breaking plug-in hybrid, GM is still losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds, according to estimates provided to Reuters by industry analysts and manufacturing experts.

    We cannot afford to refuel our Aircraft carriers, but we can buy a bunch of un-needed cars. Worst part is they are only 40% USA made. Why not Buy American cars to help our economy, and not the Presidents green ego.

    Sep 14, 2012 – The Pentagon put in an order for 1500 plug-in vehicles, among them the Chevy Volt. Guess who is all up in arms over this decision?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    What was said the AN did not say?

    They didn't mention any politicians at all. That's why I like AN, very no-nonsense, just the facts.

    No layer of opinions added. You rely too much on Fox - do you know they actually used The Onion as a source? That's satire for those not aware. Oops.

    I do not believe the Volt costs any where near $250,000. I question the sanity of whoever made that claim.

    Remember it uses an old school iron block, cheap as it comes to manufacture. It is a shortened Cruze platform. No turbo either. So basically it's a $16,000 car plus the battery and EV motor.

    How you go from there to $250,000 probably has more to do with your political agenda than any sense at all.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,433
    Some of the Onion stories go so far out that a few of them are actually are plausible. And some stories become reality. :shades:

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    Link to follow up:

    For a news outlet to retain credibility, standard industry procedure dictates that reporters and editors not only correct mistakes, but acknowledge them as well. Fox Nation had done neither at time of this writing.

    It’s not a good move for Fox, which was savagely and very publicly mocked by other major online media for passing off satire as if it were actual news.

    In the wake of such humiliation, the site’s editors can expect to face even greater scrutiny from the online community, especially after vanishing their embarrassment without so much as an explanation or retraction.


    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/26/fox-nation-readers-confuse-onion-article-r- - eal-news/
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,433
    edited April 2013
    I'll bet the Wall Street Journal didn't savagely mock Fox.

    Oh yeah, same owners. :shades:

    Getting further off topic but this was good and the NCAA final is tonight - 'Hershberger' Award. (WSJ). Reminds me of the prank where some guy wanted to put pants on pets and it made all the news outlets.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    They didn't mention any politicians at all. That's why I like AN, very no-nonsense, just the facts.

    You only want the facts you want to read. The truth is Solyndra was personally handed those loans by the Obama administration over the objections by those in the DOE that felt it was too risky. So many lives were disrupted by these various scams and subsequent layoffs.

    I don't watch Fox as I don't watch anything now but Diners, Drive-in and Dives. If Fox posts news I find it as factual as most of the crap on the internet. Being PC is not always truthful or factual.

    I would say from the first mention of $250K per Volt it was based on the $billions the US tax payers gave to GM for R&D. You left out the expensive controls and electric motors most likely built in China. My biggest complaint with the Volt is the FACT that it is just a bunch of foreign parts assembled here and subsidized with my tax dollars.
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