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Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,778
    I screwed up in Denver last month and missed the HOV lane that split off and would have avoided a long backup. Fortunately I was able to hit the next exit and hit the surface streets. I don't mind driving longer, just hate not to be moving.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Same here, and this is a good time to put in a plug for a Navi app called Waze. I've used it on both iPhones and Galaxy devices.

    Useful info like real-time traffic, police activity, and hazards on the road.

    At least 3 times I've ignored it and regretted it. When it sees a jam in front of you it reroutes you automatically.

    Far from perfect (volume is too low, you get ads when idling), but still good.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,013
    I gave up on Waze because it warns you too late about traffic. One time it directed me from a bad traffic jam to a worse one--perhaps Waze even CREATED the second one--LOL!

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,778
    The whole point of a diesel is low end torque and fuel economy--why pay more $$$ for the same thing twice?

    Here's a reason (not one that will likely resonate with consumers though).

    gimmestdtranny, "What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?" #11254, 29 Sep 2013 9:33 am

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,598
    That's seems like another reason not to buy a hybrid diesel. With the frequent start-stop of a hybrid the diesel will have even more trouble getting up to operating temperature.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,778
    edited September 2013
    Yeah, that thought (finally) did occur to me too. :blush:

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, you may re-route others, and then have to merge with more cars ahead since they're now ahead of you.

    Still, I like having more info - then I can decide.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/10/03/tesla-says-car-fire-began-in-battery-a- fter-crash/

    Looks like Tesla have the Spin Doctors all over this one for sure:

    The incident happened Tuesday after 8 a.m. as the driver was traveling southbound on state Route 167 through Kent, said Trooper Chris Webb of the Washington State Patrol. The driver stated that he believed he had struck some metal debris on the freeway, so he exited the highway and the vehicle became disabled.

    The driver told authorities he began to smell something burning and then the vehicle caught fire. Firefighters needed several attempts to extinguish the flames because the blaze kept reigniting, Webb said. A trooper who responded to the scene was unable to locate any objects on the roadway, but Department of Transportation workers did observe some debris near the scene.

    Webb said there was too much damage from the fire to see what damage the debris may have caused.

    The automobile website Jalopnik.com posted photos of the blaze that it says were taken by a reader, along with a video. The video shows the front of the Tesla Model S in flames.

    Tesla said the flames were contained to the front of the $70,000 vehicle due to its design and construction. Company spokeswoman Liz Jarvis-Shean said there were no indications that the fire was caused by anything other than the crash.

    http://news.yahoo.com/tesla-stock-tumbles-model-catches-fire-210456370--finance.- html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Gas powered cars never catch fire?

    Seems like an isolated incident.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    For the Safest car on the Road? I don't think they found anything he hit. It may have been a battery cell exploding. I know Tesla will try their best to hush it up. Won't help their stock.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I doubt they ever marketed it as "safest". Greenest, quickest, coolest, etc., sure, but safest?
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,598
    Yep, safest, too, it scored the highest ever on one of those crash tests.

    The battery fire issue isn't Tesla's fault - Li-ion batteries have a HUGE amount of chemical energy stored in a compact size. If something goes wrong (just as it does with gasoline tanks) a fire can easily follow, and be difficult to extinguish, because the chemical energy is still there, flame or no flame.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    But not unlike a fuel tank that gets hit and leaks.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    edited October 2013
    I wonder how many new S-class or LS etc caught fire yesterday. A dozen Italian cars probably did though.

    And the media is still on the 70K slant, maybe to tone down the offensiveness of the tax break given to a car that probably has an average unsubsidized MSRP a bit higher.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2013
    The battery is at the bottom, so they probably have the lowest CoG of any sedan. That probably helped rollover scores.

    I disagree, though, some debris was hit and the fire happened after the passengers exited the car. All the passengers were safe. It's not like it exploded and injured people inside.

    The 2nd article merely says they did not want Tesla using the information in a way that they didn't intend. But what they claimed wasn't inaccurate.

    In fact after reading it, to me it seems like Tesla had a point!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Did a little more reading....

    Not only did they exit the car, a built-in alert system discovered the problem and alerted them to do so.

    Plus the fire never spread to the inside of the cabin.

    People will react to news like this, but I don't see how it's unsafe. The driver collided with debris. I'm sure temp sensors found the problem before the condition became unsafe.

    My dad was once a passenger in a car that caught fire. Other cars told them to stop, and he got out just in time. No alert system in that car-B-Q.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,013
    edited October 2013
    THey did make the "safest" claim but were slammed by NHTSA for fudging the facts---in reality, none of the Tesla' competitors were ever crash tested, and, worse yet, Tesla reported a score of "5.4 rating", which doesn't even exist.

    Putting a fire alarm in a building doesn't make it "safer". A fire-suppression system makes it safer (as in race cars).

    And, as the only car to warn you to exit the vehicle...one is tempted to ask---why did they feel such a warning necessary?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2013
    Li-ion batteries store a lot of energy, so they added the safety alert.

    Would be nice if fuel tanks had an alert if the fuel level suddenly dropped, indicating a fuel leak, but gas cars are not as safe.

    ;)

    Tesla should be compared to sedans, not race cars. That's not really fair - look at the million dollar price tags those race-prepped cars carry.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    Bottom line, the cops could NOT find any metal object that was hit by the Tesla. We don't know what happened. We do know it took fire fighters over two hours to put out the fire. How much pollution does burning that many Li-ion batteries produce. Did that completely eradicate any kind of saving of the environment the Tesla may or may not provide?

    Hopefully the NHTSA get to look over the car before Tesla destroys any evidence.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,013
    Oh I wasn't comparing the Tesla to a race car (hardly). I was only commenting on how a "safe" car shouldn't need a "Bail Out" warning. No other car I know of feels the need for this--nor any building or airplane for that matter. There's an "exit" sign but no direct order to punch out.

    A full tank of gas has as much or more energy than those batteries, and no, don't ask me to do the math. Miles driven is how I came up with that.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    An EV will NOT be practical until they have at least a 500 mile range and as many charging stations as we have gas stations. I don't think it will be in my lifetime. EVs are just more corporate welfare at the rest of our expense.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,013
    I actually plotted out a typical month's routine in my vehicle and I could live with a 300 mile range, if it was an actual, dependable 300 miles without caveats for temperature, accessories used, speed limit adherence, etc.

    My figures show that only perhaps 2 times month would the car's range totally screw me up, not meaning getting stranded, but meaning that I'd have to change my plans so as to re-charge.

    I absolutely could not live with 100 miles, so a Leaf is out.

    A Tesla simply isn't practical as a "second car"---it's not enough of a "toy" to justify it like you might an exotic that you take to track days, you can't off-road with it, so it's not "recreational", and you can't haul gravel with it, as with a spare pickup.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Would a 22 gallon fuel tank leaking and burning away have been any cleaner? I doubt it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Maybe Tesla was asking for it by declaring victory, but you're both holding them to a higher standard than its competitors.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    Tesla should be held to a much higher standard. They got $85 million in zero emission credits the first quarter of this year. That was from all the other automakers. So every vehicle sold that is not ZEV kicks into the Tesla pot. Not to mention the $7500 we kick in on each car sold. Those credits are the only thing keeping Tesla afloat.

    I just don't see how selling $100k cars to the rich helps me and the rest of the Middle class tax payers. Tesla has already dropped the entry level model off the list. When will we see the Tesla for the rest of the buying public?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,776
    edited October 2013
    I do have to wonder how it would sell without the crazy tax break, and if it would exist without the other help.

    I don't see any different standard. If MB marketed an expensive electric that exists with tons of outside aid and then it caught fire for reasons still unknown, I'd be pretty inquisitive, too.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,013
    edited October 2013
    Absolutely they should be held to a higher standard, if for no other reason than to justify a stock price which is overpriced by about $130 a share.

    I noticed something else---there is no longer a waiting list for a Tesla even though production hasn't ramped up.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2013
    The federal rebate amounts to less than 10% of the purchase price, that's peanuts to the rich.

    And we import about 20 fewer barrels of oil per year for each one, per the EPA. Set those on fire and see how much damage that would do....

    20 barrels, the emissions warranty means the batteries have to last 10 years, that's up to 200 barrels, Brent Crude is around $110 per, that's over $20 grand.

    Realistically I don't see them being driven as many miles as a 7 series, but still.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,778
    edited October 2013
    Bottom line, the cops could NOT find any metal object that was hit by the Tesla.

    That's not what Tesla is saying on their blog:

    "A curved section that fell off a semi-trailer was recovered from the roadway near where the accident occurred and, according to the road crew that was on the scene, appears to be the culprit."

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