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Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    I don't think they considered CO2, which of course now is only a worry for the diehard "Warmers".
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    Right, that's next on the plate.

    Really, the emphasis should shift to enforcing emission regs on semis and converting more of them to natural gas or whatever else they can come up with. Then they can hammer on the trains and ships and planes.

    Cars are in pretty good shape.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,424
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2013
    Came to post the same news, you beat me to it.

    Didn't help that the car looked like a mish-mash of early 90s Civic and Daewoo. It was a decade old at launch. $37 grand for that? You almost had to buy a Focus EV.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny....

    I'd love to see the list of assumptions the snake oil sales men are making when they come up with these proposals.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    Electric Rolls-Royce Phantom 102EX Rejected by Consumers, Automaker Says

    "The Rolls-Royce Phantom 102EX, an experimental car billed as the world's first battery-electric vehicle for the ultra-luxury segment, has been rejected by consumers, the automaker told Edmunds.

    "We expected it to be better received, but no one wanted it," said Rolls-Royce CEO Torsten Muller-Otvos in an interview here on Monday.

    The experimental car, which had been on tour as a "test bed" since its unveiling at the 2011 Geneva Auto Show, barely interested luxury buyers. They told Rolls-Royce they didn't like its range or recharging time."
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,424
    I guess I'm not surprised - why would someone interested in an EV want to buy a car that looks like a gas guzzler but with a surprise inside?

    These failures are examples of the basic EV problem: until there's a true battery breakthrough in cost/kw-hr of storage capacity (like a factor of 3 or more reduction), it's just too expensive to have enough range. They may make a great niche vehicle for commuting (but at a high cost, ignoring government (my) $$), but that's not a big market.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,424
    Ran across this excellent article about battery costs, including this plot:
    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Neat graph.

    That top/left corner of the purple rectangle represents Prius sales. :D
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    Numbers Plentiful, Choices Limited

    "Just two companies, Honda and Toyota, have made most of the used hybrid cars, crossovers and SUVs. The majority bear a single nameplate: Prius. That's because Toyota's Prius is the best-selling hybrid by far in the U.S., accounting for about half of all hybrid sales since Day One, according to sales data compiled by Edmunds.com.

    There now are about two dozen conventional hybrid models on the market, and almost every major automaker has one or more for sale. But many only started selling the gas-electric cars and trucks in the last two years. Those models don't have much presence in the secondhand car market yet."

    Tips for Used Hybrid Car Shopping
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    I see it as an extortion racket:

    LOS ANGELES -- Automakers are in the uncomfortable position of building mostly at a loss a class of small electric cars that garner a lot of attention but few sales just to satisfy rules imposed by one state, California.

    As a result, they've acquired the name "compliance cars."

    They include electric versions of such familiar models as the Chevrolet Spark, Honda Fit and Toyota RAV4.

    Most are being produced primarily or solely to meet California's mandate that large automakers sell a percentage of zero-emission cars in order to sell traditional cars in the state. Hybrids and natural gas cars aren't considered good enough, and hydrogen fuel-cell cars are still a ways off, so battery cars are the quickest way to comply.

    Last month, Chrysler Group CEO Sergio Marchionne said his company would limit production of the electric Fiat 500e because it will lose $10,000 on each. "Doing that on a large scale would be masochism to the extreme," he said.

    Like many of the other such cars, the 500e will be sold only in California when it rolls out this summer.

    The California rules apply to automakers that sell at least 60,000 vehicles a year in the state, which means the Detroit makers, plus Toyota, Honda and Nissan.


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/05/09/electric-cars-compliance-car- s/2144853/
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    California's economy (GDP) is about the same at Italy's. Sergio probably has issues with Italian car regs but Fiat isn't going to walk away from that market either.

    Sounds like Italian smog problems are getting worse too. (italymagazine.com). Maybe Sergio can make some money selling 500es in Verona.

    So remind me, which side of "states rights" are we on this week? :D
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    So remind me, which side of "states rights" are we on this week?

    Interesting question. When states rights interefere with personal freedoms I am not in favor. In the case of emissions it should be considered interstate commerce or EPA that administers. Air pollution knows no state boundaries. In this instance CA has done this before and it cost US all a lot of money. The EV-1 boondoggle comes to mind. CA has a history of social engineering using repressive tactics. How can you force people to buy these EVs that have very little practical value? Then penalize private companies when they do not sell enough to satisfy the mandate?
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    Jerry can't force individuals to buy them so your personal freedom is intact. But California can (so far) force the automakers to offer them for sale. Health costs from smog cost us a lot of money too, so what are you going to do?

    Your choices are clean cars, clean gas, high fuel taxes, mass transit, shut down the rails and ports and factories and power utilities. Makes you step back and take a deep breath and *cough* wonder. :D
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Your choices are clean cars, clean gas, high fuel taxes, mass transit, shut down the rails and ports and factories and power utilities.

    We could all go Amish and use real horse power. I have fond memories of my time raising draft horses. Well except going broke in the process. Why is CA promoting pollution in other parts of the World to satisfy their misguided ideals.

    image
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    edited May 2013
    I guess we should all be glad that California is upwind of everyone else in the US, otherwise y'all would be suing every coal power plant from Jersey to 4 Corners. (And your pic isn't showing for me).
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    edited May 2013
    This last quarter, anyway.

    "2013 is off to a strong start," wrote Tesla CEO Elon Musk in a letter to shareholders on Wednesday.

    Tesla said it expects to exceed its prior target of 20,000 worldwide deliveries and feels comfortable raising guidance to about 21,000 deliveries.

    "We also completed various deliverables under the Mercedes Benz B-Class EV program which contributed to total development services revenue of almost $7 million," Tesla noted in its shareholder letter."

    Tesla Posts First Quarterly Profit
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Here it is again...

    image
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    Someone snuck in and stole the horn off that unicorn.
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