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Buick LeSabre Engine help

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,703
    edited September 2010
    I didn't remember they sent a thermostat rubber seal. They may have sent o-rings for the PCV.

    Be sure to get both o-rings on the PCV if that's the setup yours uses. If the lower o-ring is missing, you get high vacuum in the engine and can hear it with the oil cap off.

    image

    image

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,703
    Thanks for cleaning up my picture mess.

    I forgot to check my width before linking. I shrank the original on photobucket to 650. And it still showed up as large on my computer.

    I actually deleted the picture from photobucket.com to get rid of it, but it kept showing up on my computer. So I hoped it was just the cache that I couldn't clear, and that other computers weren't getting the large version.

    This time I checked before linking!!!

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  • Orangeup here:

    Wits end. The LaSabre started blowing antifreeze clouds out the tail pipe again after it ran good for about a minute (third attempt to fix it) after 6 weekends of work. I tested the head gaskets (115 to 125 psi), replaced upper and lower manifold seals, and the upper manifold itself. Car started coughing again after a while so I just shut it off.

    I can’t figure out how its getting in. I observed no antifreeze in the oil. It has to be coming in through either the intake ports or a leaking head gasket. Both times I observed a large amount of antifreeze in the manifold after I ran it and I suspect the same this time. How does it get into the manifold.

    There is an EGR pipe that comes from the exhaust pipe but that don’t make sense as the source of the antrifreeze unless the head-gasket is failing and the antifreeze comes out of the exhaust back up the EGR pipe into the manifold completing the circle.

    The head gasket is the only thing that makes sense for it to be broke but I can’t find any symptoms to support my theory. The engine revved nice when I first started it and the head pressure seemed to be Ok when I tested it.

    I did observe a small amount of smoke in the engine compartment when the engine started heating up which I attributed to spilled fluid on the exhaust manifold but maybe I am wrong there. Any thoughts?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,703
    edited September 2010
    The exhaust system would have coolant in it that was put there during earlier leaking. Heating it up starts vaporizing the coolant that acts like an oil when it gets hot putting out clouds of doom.

    Also the spark plugs are fouled with the coolant. They should be changed for a set of new ones before attempting to run.

    Were the circular seals around the openings carrying coolant up into the into from the metal lower good and in place? Were the rubber seals to the throttle body good and in place?

    I would get a pressure tester and check for a leak in the coolant system to verify that you are leaking. I don't know if the Autozone or O'Reilly loan pressure testers or if you'd need to buy one. IF it holds pressure for half an hour or an hour, that would be a good sign. I'm not sure of the time it should hold without any drop, but it also would push liquid out a seep at the o-rings around the elbow, which I've read are hard to seal sometimes around the o-rings. people use silicon to get them to seal.

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  • Great news. I drove the Buick LaSabre last night and this morning to work which is about 70 miles. It was fixed after all and you were right that it was just a matter of clearing the exhaust system of coolant. It smoked for about 30 miles both out the tail pipe and under the hood. The new plenum sounds kind of funny under the hood. Like a washing machine but she runs great. No leaks anywhere.

    Actually the first thing I checked was for coolant in the intake manifold and it was clear so I had high hoped you were on to it.

    Thanks for all of your help, your good.

    So long,
    Orangeup
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,703
    edited September 2010
    >Like a washing machine but she runs great.

    Take off the oil filler cover while the engine is idlling. Is there a strong vacuum there? People with a PCV problem complain of different noises from the motor till they get the o-rings right.

    You can congratulate yourself that you've done a major repair and it's working.

    Remember to change the oil again in a short period to get out the coolant that may have dropped down into the oil areas.

    I appreciate your coming back to tell me and others how it worked for you!

    This message has been approved.

  • I put all those O-rings in, as seen in all the picture above, but maybe the PCV valve is not working as it should. I'll just drop in a new one to make sure, and change the oil again. Still running as it should and no leaks.

    I hope for all those others out there that our detailed documenting of this case is in inspiration to all those other do-it-yourself mechanics to share your information and experiences. We all benefit from shared knowledge.

    Thanks and happy trails,
    Orangeup.
  • I replaced the PCV valve and found I had two O-rings around the old PCV valve. The MAP sensor now fits level. The engine sound is much improved too. After I changed the oil to Valvoline High Mileage (a Synthrtic blend) I also notice a 20 lbs improvement of the oil pressure. From about 40 to about 60. I don't know if its the oil or the PCV valve or the combination thereoff that led to the improved pressure.

    Thanks. OrangeUp
  • I have a problem.
    I replaced UIM and LIM gaskets due to (hydrolocking?) but let me back up.
    Mother in law bought this 98 Lesabre used in 2004 with @ 50000 on it. passenger dual climate control never worked ( even after 2 trips 2 dealership). at @ 82000, we were driving car and it lost power and eventually stopped / stalled. Had it towed home, tried to crank it and it would only barely turn over. Turns out it "hydrolocked" and needed UIM replaced.
    Now, at 157000 we were driving home from trip, and temp light came on, temp guage on 260, Stopped and looked at it and determined AC clutch locked up. Had car towed again (thank GOD for AAA!!). Next morning, Cranked car up, but clutch was disengaged. Next day, got in it to leave, and car hydrolocked! It cranked up a few hours later, ran rough, and acted like blown head gasket, with white smoke rolling out tailpipe. in around 6-8 min., smoke cleared, started running smooth, and geneally acted like nothing was wrong. I poured some water in overflow jug while engine was still running, and car hydrolocked almost immediately! Cranked up again, smoke and rough, smoothed out, pulled radiator cap off, and it had no water in it. When i poured more water in it with it running , symtoms started again, but this time, steam was coming out of hose between air box and throttle body. I removed throttle boby and there was oily water in UIM.
    I replaced UIM and LIM gaskets myself because i didn't have the 400-500 quoted to me for repair. Torqued everything properly, plugged in all wires, hooked everything back up feeling like a proud peacock for the money I saved, and nothing. Car does not start. Pulled a plug and wire to see if getting spark, and nothing. I did notice some oily gunk coming out, so pulled all plugs and spun motor to get gunk out, but still no spark. I can't afford to take to shop, so any suggestions would be helpful.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,703
    I'll list some things, but I have no real experience at troubleshooting this kind of problem from afar!

    I suspect you have broken, disconnected, a wire for the circuit causing the spark.

    There is a connector on the end of the camshaft area for the camshaft sensor. Possibly that one's broken or loose--but I think the car should start without that one. There is a crankshaft position sensor that is behind the circumference of the harmonic balancer. Those go bad at higher mileage on some cars but usually people first have symptoms of stalling while hot and restart quickly or after cooling down. You'll see a connector down there.

    You might have disturbed the connector on the end of the spark control plate under the three coils. Loosen the front bolt that holds the connector on and clean and reassemble the connector.

    A good test would be if the injectors are squirting. You can make a test light by taking a 194 type bulb with the wires for contacts and straightening them and connecting it to the inejector and see if it flickers while cranking. I've not tried it but I would assume you could feel the injector work by touching it while cranking.

    No injector and no spark would indicate no pulse from crankshaft position sensor OR something else wrong.

    Backing up, did you try putting a spark plug into the lead and laying it on the metal of the motor to be sure there's no spark? I'm hoping there was spark and it just didn't show because there was no ground? I don't know if there are any fuses in the driver side fuse box, or the master relay fuses under the hood on the firewall, or in the fusebox on the passenger A pillar below the dash that are for the spark. And I assume there are fuses for the injector circuits as well.

    Also, the plugs are usually fouled after lots of coolant blasting into the cylinders and need replacing (I put in an old set I'd kept). I dried and cleaned the current ones with solvent and a brass brush and later put them back in.

    Also, drain out that oil with the coolant that's gotten into it through the cylinders. That coolant will ruin bearing quickly. Put in the cheapest oil you can find, run it for a few miles when you get the car running, and then change again with something you want to run a little longer. You need to flush out the coolant and the oil will pick it up where it's sitting in the gallery and everywhere. So use that first oil just to flush.

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  • Turns out it was replacing plugs. Car does have a vibration / slight hesitation / idle going slightly back and forth in park ( 1000-1150? rpm) but you cant feel it driving car.
    Thank you for this forum. I mentioned in my 1st post about passenger air not working from the time the car came into the family. When the air wouldn't go to vents, my wife found this post about replacing the vaccum lines on the control box. cost me.37 and around 2 hours time when I finally figured uot what I was looking at. Thanks again.

    Mike
  • soco4soco4 Posts: 9
    My sister and b-i-l have a gently-driven, 45K LeSabre Limited. When cold-started, 3 alarmingly loud metallic rapping or banging sounds are heard. From then on, there are just muffled knocking sounds (I assume that the buildup of oil pressure results in the muffling), in a regular cadence. Their mechanic says that a rod bearing is worn, and wants to replace all rod bearings for at least $800, and he warns that more damage may be found.

    My guess is that a lower con rod bearing has gone bad as a result of a defect. I would think that a mechanic could just drop the oil pan and replace the bad bearing (I would hope that the culprit could be isolated) for not much money, but of course realize that further diagnosis may reveal different or more repair needs.

    Do you have any experience with this kind of problem? Thank you for your help.
  • I am trying to find the ignition timing for a 2002 Lesabre 3.8 engine. My Scan tool shows 24-27 degrees advance at idle after warmup. I can't drive the car because there is not enough power to move it and I can't figure out the problem. It may be the trans in that it boggs down huge in drive and I am trying differentiate between engine and trans. So, trying to diagnose with a scan tool. No DTCs or anything else, but the timing seems high.
  • Hello Everyone,

    What would be a reasonable time estimate to replace the flywheel on a 2000 Buick Lesabre with a 3.8L V6 and an auto tranny. The car is very well maintained and other than the damaged flywheel is in excellent condition.

    I am recovering from a significant back surgery to repair 3 crushed vertebrae and simply can not do this myself right now.

    I feel that it would take me about two days to do this myself, but I know I'm not as efficient as professional mechanic so I'm not sure what to expect as an estimate.

    Does anyone have access to a shop manual that would offer a "standard time estimate" to do this work???

    Also, I live in Anchorage, Alaska and if anyone could recommend a good shop up here I would really appreciate it.

    Thank you all,

    Alaska_Paul :confuse:
  • patrick216patrick216 Posts: 6
    edited November 2011
    i have an 94 buick lesabre and about two days ago i started to have problems my car started to sputter when i accelerate so i checked my engine to find out that my engine was hardly getting any gas so i checked my fuel filter and it was clogged i changed that and even gave my car a tune up went to start it it seemed like it was running fine while in park but when i switched gears and pressed on the gas it started again my service engine light comes on every time and a little cloud of smoke comes from the back of my engine every time when i rev up my engine. i also checked my ignition coils come to find out 1 & 3 wasnt working changed them still no good.... but when it does start back up it misfires constantly hiccuping then i give it about twenty minutes start it back up then it runs smooth in park and only in park! what could be the problem is it something electrical? because it only runs good while its in park
  • i have an 94 buick lesabre and about two days ago i started to have problems my car started to sputter when i accelerate so i checked my engine to find out that my engine was hardly getting any gas so i checked my fuel filter and it was clogged i changed that and even gave my car a tune up went to start it it seemed like it was running fine while in park but when i switched gears and pressed on the gas it started again my service engine light comes on every time and a little cloud of smoke comes from the back of my engine every time when i rev up my engine. i also checked my ignition coils come to find out 1 & 3 wasnt working changed them still no good.... but when it does start back up it misfires constantly hiccuping then i give it about twenty minutes start it back up then it runs smooth in park and only in park! what could be the problem is it something electrical? because it only runs good while its in park
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,703
    Some things you can check. I am not an expert but have read many discussions of what does bad.

    If you have another car the same as yours to use to switch parts, say a friend's, that would be easiest.

    You don't say how many miles...

    Is it losing coolant? That might indicate a major problem with seals--even though this is a Series I engine and it was the Series II engines that have trouble with the intake manifold seals leaking coolant into the oil. The reason I ask is you mention a cloud when you start the car. Coolant seeping and being sucked into the intake will leave the spark plugs nice and steam cleaned. Were the ones you took out clean of crude?

    Next is that 94 and 95's have had slightly more problems with the computers going bad that control the engine. This is why a switch with another would be nice to have to check rather than buying a new one just on the chance that might be it.

    The spark control coil under the three coils can give problems. They can be tested at the parts stores, but failure often comes with the engine heat and they don't test them hot. Substitution would be the easy check. Have you done the with the special code reader for 94s and 95s? I don't know if those are able to tell which cylinders are misfiring. If you can, then move coils to see if the misfire moves. The ISC under the coils is controlled by that computer, so it might be the computer not commanding the spark correctly. Check the connections on the end of the ISC for good clean connections.

    Check all vacuum tubes for rot and cracks especially near the engine itself where they are very hot.

    Try removing the connector for the MAF in throttle body and seeing if that changes the behavior.

    Try removing the connector for the MAP which may be on top of the PCV housing.

    Remember if removing those allows better running, the MAF or MAP may not be at fault; the engine goes to a default and it may be covering up some other problem.

    Crankshaft position sensors go out on this engine, but usually causes dying and then restarting after the sensor cools or restarting immediately.

    Try to diagnose rather than replace. That gets expensive.

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  • it has 155,000 miles and the coolant is still filled at the top of my radiator i also checked my oil for the milky type oil and thats fine so i know its not my head gasket but ill try what youve suggested
  • yeah they were clean no crude once so ever...i also removed the back panel and exposed the arm cuffs or rotor cuffs i think theyre called started up the engine and thats where the smoke is coming from...but my cel is on so it has to be something electrical causing it.
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