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What Does Subaru Know That Others Don't?

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  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    edited November 2011
    Well, as AJ said, the BRZ is pretty close to the concepts that were shown. That said, for this type of vehicle, real-world reality will set in negating some of the extreme styling aspects. Still, I'm sure it will be better than the current frumpy-looking Legacy and Outback.

    One thing in its favor: Kia and Hyundai have shown that really attractive cars will sell to mass-market customers—and Subaru knows that! That plus the current Legacy and Outback are a clear step backwards in terms of looks—and Subaru knows that as well.

    So the pressure is on the Subaru decision-makers to let the designers do what they do best—design!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2011
    The current Legacy and Outback easily outsell the outgoing model, though likely due to size, not styling.

    Still, when the 2005 Legacy came out, people called it boring, Camry-like. Then again people complain no matter what Subaru does. I'm surprised few are complaining about the BRZ, first non-controversial looking new product I can recall.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    edited November 2011
    They're outselling the old Legacy/Outback—in spite of their styling, not because of it.

    The new cars are just better at being "family" vehicles; thanks to increased size, better content and pricing.

    Just imagine how well they would be selling if the styling was exceptional. The dealers would be sold out.

    Bob
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited November 2011
    2005 Legacy was nothing like Camry. It was smaller and nimbler (which of course for many was a negative - not for me), it had a great looking wagon (2005 and 2006 - then discontinued). I was really disapointed with this new one. It's a barge. :( The specs etc. may be all good, but the size is not for me. OTOH Impreza is already too compact, both in terms of size and and equipment. Even current STI (I own 2008) is not exactly "premium" - $18K Impreza roots are visible.

    I really liked the older one, especially in GT trim, it was a true sports sedan/wagon, but I understand why they did what they did (pretty much same as Mazda). For one lost customer they probably picked up couple of new ones.

    All those things made me pony up additional 10 grand for 328 wagon w/ manual tranny :P .

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I didn't think that way, but those were the comments from the peanut gallery. The 05 model was very conservative, perhaps too much so.

    I happened to like it a lot.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    I thought the 05 was a big improvement over the outgoing model, very clean. The new one, too big and bulky looking.
  • Does your 328 have AWD? I would love to buy one of those but they are about as common as a Bugatti Veyron :(
  • And this is a pretty cool video of the new BRZ (Not a fan of the name...)

    Subaru BRZ gets sideways to some adult contemporary in first film

    Looking forward to test driving this one!
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,543
    BRZ does remind one a bit of a Plymouth.

    Seems like Subaru and other companies have better luck tagging numbers and initials onto words, at least in North America. It's not the WRX, it's the Impreza WRX (or WRX STi). The B9X concept became the B9 Tribeca and then just the Tribeca.

    Most people in NA never say MX5; they drop that and just say Miata. But Audi and BMX get away with the hard to decipher names.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    I wonder if it will end up being nicknamed "Breeze", not the best association IMO - one of those lovely cars with stickers instead of actual emblems, IIRC.

    Yeah, BMX gets away with a lot, darn those Redline and Mongoose people :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think "Brazil", maybe because I was born there. Not a fan of the name, but it won't matter.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here's the time line of the peanut gallery's reactions to Subaru:

    1998: The Forester is just a tall wagon!
    2002: OMG what's with the bug eyes on the Impreza, and the rear looks like a Kia!
    2005: The Legacy looks like a Camry!
    2008: This new Impreza is so conservative, I miss the character of the bug-eye model!
    2009: This new Forester is just another SUV, I miss the old wagon!
    2012: Horrors! The old Legacy was the best looking sedan ever, now this?

    Simple fact: everyone's favorite design is one generation back. This is always the case, even as time goes on.

    The BRZ is shocking, absolutely SHOCKING, in terms of the lack of controversy. Besides whining about little things like wheel design, at least.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,818
    The BRZ is shocking, absolutely SHOCKING, in terms of the lack of controversy. Besides whining about little things like wheel design, at least.

    So everybody is OK with it not having AWD?? :P
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    edited December 2011
    I am... keeps the weight down and for a sports car with what, 5 inches of ground clearance, I wouldn't want to drive it in the snow anyways! :D

    In the tradition of "Hot" Subies, I would like to see the option for the trademark STIi Gold wheels tho, that would be killer.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,461
    Give it a turbo first, then the gold wheels. Do that, though, and I have to imagine the wing would come mandatory. :sick:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    What, you're not a high schooler or a chav? :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    1998: it was, right?
    2002: greatest crime was the loss of the coupe
    2008: the notchback sedan is almost Corolla-esque in its invisibility. I liked the weird bullnose Saab inbetween year Impreza, just to look at it and say "what the hell?".
    2012: Nobody will look back at the current Legacy as being a styling benchmark.

    BRZ is non-controversial because of the Toyota DNA and that it has been hyped up for so long, everyone has seen it before and become used to the overall shape.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    Like rubbing salt into a wound. No, I HATE the fact that it's not AWD.

    Bob
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,693
    Impression off the bat, it's average but I don't think I'm in the intended audience.
    My guess is a 20 year old mustang/camaro with a couple of suspension mods could make it's life a challenge.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited December 2011
    No, I actually did not want one.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    What Toyota DNA?

    OK, they added DI tech (to a boxer), but it's even being made in Gunma Prefecture. Subaru said the Toyota staff were invited to attend some meetings only when they were needed.

    This is a Subaru at the core.

    And you guys are right, the controversy is the lack of AWD, not styling related.

    Look at it this way - what does it have in common with ANY other Toyota? Nothing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is probably closer, but I'm sure it will get cross-shopped with the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, 370Z, and maybe even G37c and 1 series.

    Heck, plus Miata, while I'm at it. I own a Miata and without a doubt that would have been cross-shopped had it been available.

    If it really does come in at $24k, it'll be a hit. That may be too cheap, and result in markups.

    TRD will supposedly offer a supercharges, but at 26xx lbs it shouldn't really need one. I think we're all used to bloated 3000+ lbs vehicles even when we're talking about compacts.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    The styling is more Toyota to my eyes, and the body of the car is what makes the impression. I can't believe Toyota had more or less zero input - but claiming so certainly couldn't help sales or image.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    Big boats like the Challenger, V6 and V8 cars, prestige brands that cost 50% more? Nah, I don't know about that one. Maybe the prestige brands when they are about 3 years old. Miata though, I can believe, Scion tC for sure. Maybe even some sedans bought by people who want something like the Breeze but can't get it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,719
    http://www.insideline.com/subaru/impreza/2012/2012-subaru-impreza-legacy-outback- -recalled-for-faulty-brake-pedal.html

    That will slow down Subaru sales a tad... including the new Impreza. At least they caught it early on the Impreza, before many cars hit the roads.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Indeed, Subaru engineered all the hard points, Toyota basically designed a body around that.

    I guess we're using the term DNA differently. DNA to me are the insides, which are pure Subaru.

    Toyota just did the surface.

    I hear Navi may be included at the $24k price. Get ready for markups.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Just when they got the Gunma factory chugging along...not good. :(
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,713
    There will have to be severe supply limits to get away with the ADM game, however...the economy isn't quite that strong in many areas, and younger buyers often have less money than they have in a long time. This thing won't sell to many boomers.

    I do like how Toyota had to hit up someone else to make a cool car. I also like the "Boxer" emblem I have seen pics of, it made me think of an "SS" symbol, and I don't mean the one on a Chevy. Funny.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    For the BRZ the sales forecast is unusually low, IIRC 5-7k units annually. I think that estimate is nuts.

    Guess it depends on how many Toyota will get, will the US allocation be split 50/50 or what? Maybe 60/40 in favor of the one with bigger pockets?

    I like the boxer emblem also, and ironically it goes on the Scion!

    At least they did a good job with the overall shape and styling. The best part about it, despite a couple of iffy details, is that you can't say "that looks just like a ___".

    It's inspired by the 2000GT, early Z cars, the fenders seem familiar, but it does not look like any other car on the road, and that's cool.
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