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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,727
    Nobody has had the new Legacy for a long time, as it just it the market. Also, I wouldn't write off the new Forester. I would think in Northern Michigan either the Forester or Outback would be the better choice, simply because they deal with bad roads and deep snow better. If road noise and comfort are concerns, the Outback would be the better choice.

    FWIW, the Subaru brand, in general, has a very high owner retention rate. Most Subaru owners, remain Subaru owners when it comes time to look for a new ride. So they must be doing something right.

    Bob
  • udhoopudhoop Posts: 5
    I have two counterparts who also drive the 2008 Forester and neither like it. It was not "as advertised" when it came it it's ability to handle the snow. Just to light and small of a vehicle in my opinion. Our company got enough complaints that they allowed us all to get snowtires last year and that did make a big difference. The Outback is not an option for us. Only the Forester, Legacy or AWD Taurus. I originally had my mind made up to go with the Ford but after test driving it I am a bit hesitant because of all the blind spots it seems to have in the rear...makes me nervous...feel like I have to check 3 and 4 times before changing lanes.

    The Legacy felt much more comfortable than my current Forester and was definitely more quiet. I am just concerned that after a harsh winter on hard roads it too will ride hard like my current Forester. :(
  • xemexxemex Posts: 1
    We have 6 Subaru cars (2 Foresters) . I would like to hear from 2010 owners FORESTER (MT) Manual Transmission. Any experience on 1st gear uphill safety feature will be appreciated

    Thank You

    Xemex
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm curious, was it the LL Bean model, with the self-leveling shocks, or the standard suspension?

    Perhaps they're just defective.

    If you compare Vermont to Florida, Subaru has 14 times the market share in the snowy state vs. the sunny state. People love them for snow. I had a 98 and we own an 09 now - they are great.

    I think the shocks are simply bad.
  • jdljrjdljr Posts: 11
    Just stopped at my local dealer last night and took a look at the '10 Outback and the '10 Legacy. I like the re-design of the Legacy, and I was WOW'ed by the re-design of the Outback. Looks much less like a wagon, more like an SUV. I have never been crazy about the Outback, as I'm not a wagon kind of guy. But the '10 Outback really catches my eye. I think the new look is fantastic. However, seeing that I have owned my '09 Legacy SE for about a year, I'm probably not looking to trade, as I doubt the dealer would pay off my '09 Legacy. :surprise:
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Posts: 1,207
    The final price of purchase extended warranty (Added Security) when your car is still within factory warranty 3/36000 is negotiable... They can ask for suggest retailed price and you can counter-offer.

    From price quoted to me, the formula is add $200 to $300 on the 50% of the suggested price. Most Subie dealers will sell you at that range and refuse any offers outside this range.
  • ssmintonssminton Posts: 155
    I am considering the purchase of another Outback. I owned a 2005 3.0R VDC for several years but went back to a SUV in 2007. Although I loved the driving experience of the OB, I was having trouble fitting adults in the back seat of my 2005.

    I test drove both engine models over the weekend. Having primarily driven luxury SUV's in recent years, my gas pedal foot and ears could not tolerate the CVT... as much as I wanted it to work for me! Although it more power than previous models, the engine growl was awful... I don't remember that in the older models? Thus, my hopes of some gas saving are foiled as the only model I could handle with my much highway driving is the 3.6R. My first impressions driving the car was that it was spacious but not nearly as "fun" to drive as my 2005 3.0R VDC. It felt very utilitarian, like the Tribeca I had experienced before making the decision to move away from Subaru for my last SUV purchase.

    I still have a place in my heart for a new Subie, but other than the relative "value" equation compared to luxury sport wagons, I am having trouble making the decision. Back in 2004, I found the 2005 3.0R VDC to outperform luxury wagons like the A4, 3-series, and Volvo. Now, they are not even in the same class of performance... perhaps due to the larger, higher body of the Subaru and significant refinements in the luxury classes. So back in 2005, it was an easy decision... save $10-15K and buy the Subaru. Now the cost difference between the Subaru and other luxury sportwagons has closed < $10K. The luxury wagens, with their efficient turbos also have phenomenal gas mileage, compared to the Subaru .

    Thus here are my questions for you Subaru enthusiests out there...

    1. Am I crazy, or does the new 3.6R not drive as well as the older 3.0R?

    2. Any ideas on real-world gas mileage for the new 3.6R? My 2005 3.0R VDC got about the same mileage as my current 2007 Acura MDX... 19 in town and mid-20's on the highway... any improvement with the 2010 3.6R?

    3. Resale values... one of the reasons that I went back to the Acura MDX was a less than stellar resale value of my 2005 3.0R VDC, compared to the basic OB models. With an even greater price range in the 2010 Outback line... this situation may now be even worse not better?

    4. With the 4-cyl not an option for me... any word on a a diesel or turbo 4 for the OB linup?

    5. Tell me why I should buy an outback and not a Audi A4 Avant or Volvo V50 T5, if I am going to downsize from my SUV, with the interest of bringing back driving enthusiasm and better gas mileage?

    Thanks!
  • ssmintonssminton Posts: 155
    The industry appears to have taken a step back in the past few years... I sense fewer, not more, vehicles with factory Navigation available today. This is opposite from the trends elsewhere in the world. You cannot buy a Ford Focus or Opel Astra in Europe without even the most basic navigation system. As someone who has experienced both portable (with my 2005 Subaru and today during travel) as well as factory installed (2007 Acura MDX)... factory installed wins hands down. The ease of use and availability of traffic and weather data make it the best and safest option.

    So here's my question... is it true that you cannot adjust the Subaru Navigation System while driving? This was told to me by my Subaru dealer as he explained why they order zero vehicles with factory Navigation... this can't really be true? Perhaps in older models, but I have to believe that Subaru has changed this for 2010? Does anyone know? If this is still the case, then a new Subie is a no-go for me.

    Thanks!
  • surrfurtomsurrfurtom Posts: 124
    I've had navi for years both as built in an stand alone and agree it should be standard eqpt. It is a huge help in traveling and a safety improvement.

    I have a Cadillac with built in nav and it requires the car to be stopped before you can do a search for POIs or request a route change or many of the other functions. It is a CYA thing that Lexus and other manufacturers do also to keep the interaction to a minimum when the car is moving. Yes it is a PITA especially when you have a co-pilot.

    For that reason I prefer my Magellan stand alone and my Verizon cell phone navigation over my built in car navigation. My Verizon cell phone costs $10 a month and it provides lots of dynamic info on gas prices, traffic, movies, etc and has automatic updates. It is a good deal. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it requires a cell phone signal and that can be an occasional problem and also the map function is less detailed. The Magellan works well but you need to buy updates that could cost close to $10 a month if amortized plus cost of unit.

    The factory units usually cost $2k but include a helpful back up camera. Good luck on your decision.
  • ssmintonssminton Posts: 155
    I am surprised to hear about this "disabled" function in some factory installed navigation systems. I change my route all the time while driving, especially when I'm hungry for something particular or traffic changes.

    I still prefer to find a factory navigation system with voice command capability... I think it is just a matter of time before many of the portable devices and/or interaction with them are banned.

    I will be sure to test any navigation system for such limitations you describe... perhaps I should keep the Acura!

    Thanks for your insights...
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 685
    I recently drove the 3.6R Outback, comparing it to my 2005 3.0R with only 19,000 miles. They are very different cars:

    The positives for the 3.6R are much better tip-in throttle response and an isolated very comfortable ride over pot-holed roads.

    The negative is a ponderousness with practically no road feel through the steering...and a significantly larger turning circle.

    I drove the 2010 Forester at the same dealer and found it to be very capable and with the same ride as my 2005 3.0R and with the same interior passenger room as the Outback 3.6R. I noted the smaller cargo area.
  • ssmintonssminton Posts: 155
    Thanks for the feedback... I agree with your driving assessment of the 2010 3.6R. It is a nice car and a decent value but a bit vanilla in the drive experience. I remember being excited about the way my 2005 3.0R drove after a test drive. When you speak of the Forester, are you referring to the Turbo model?
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 685
    When you speak of the Forester, are you referring to the Turbo model?

    No, I drove the normally aspirated model and found its around-town performance not too different from my 2005 3.0R. There was adequate off-the-line accelleration. The turbo would have been faster of course,

    The ride also was much the same as the 3.0R with good center feel. The interior appearance was as good as my 3.0R, but some materials were not as good quality..mouse fur headliner, minimal thickness carpet. The leather seating seemed similar The huge increase in interior room certainly makes back seat passengers more comfortable. Lack of protective side cladding makes parking dents more probable.

    If I needed to replace the 3.0R right now the Forester with leather would be my choice. I'm not sure I would want the turbo. Having driven the OB 2.5 l w/CVT, I can't imagine tolerating the noise.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If you didn't like the CVT, go ahead and sample the Forester XT. The automatic is criticized for having only 4 ratios but it is very responsive. Try it, it's better in real life than it is on paper.

    Portable Nav systems now take voice commands. They're high end, but still cost a quarter to a third of what built-in systems cost. Map updates cost $65 from Garmin vs. $230 from Subaru. And new 5" screens have arrived, too.

    I'm sure someone (peaty?) will find an override for the lock-out while in motion.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    After 1-2 months or researching small/midsize CUV/SUVs: RAV4 (V6 a great overall car) , CRV (no power), Tiguan (best looking but smallest trunk, reliable?, too expensive), etc and wagons (Outback, Volvo V50 (small trunk), XC70 (interior is an acquired taste, depreciation bad), A5 Avant (too expensive for what it is, small trunk, reliability?), VW Jetta/Passat wagons (worst reliability brand), it came pretty clear that the Outback is the overall best choice for me. I never owned a Subbie before, I&#146;m one of those Honda drivers that Subaru was hoping to capture with the new Outback. It&#146;s clear that loyal Subbies are upset about the new look and height but it really works for me.

    I need to trade my (awesome) &#146;05 TSX w/NAV for practicality now that I have a 5 month old infant. Honda just came out with the Cross Tour today but it is just another Venza (at first looked like the perfect vehicle-sedan like drive but taller, 4 door hatch, etc but reviews show it is the worst of all worlds (heavy, somewhat cheap interior, and those 20&#148; tires? Not comfortable and $$)

    My questions are the following:

    1) I live in Mass. The dealer inventories show tons of 2.5 basic and Premiums but just a trickle of 3.6R…ALL Limited! Why is it impossible to find 3.6 Premiums?

    2) In any case there are next to none 3.6R Limited with NAV. I read here that dealers don&#146;t want them because it does not interact while driving? That is a problem.

    3) I&#146;m thinking of getting the V6 Premium and a portable NAV. The Limited (+$2k) does nothing for me unless it comes with the NAV.

    4) Why does Subaru force us to get Limited and sunroof before getting NAV? It&#146;s like they know most Subbies are frugal so let&#146;s hose the ones with some $ for NAV!

    Thanks-
  • I hear you on the Nav! As a high-mileage driver, I have found it most economical to switch cars every few years. I believe that factory installed Navigation was actually more widely available back in early 2007 than it is today. I am also driving an Acura, a 2007 MDX Sport. I love the Nav system and especially the integrated traffic. Subaru is really behind on the technology. Even my Nissan Altima rental last week had hands-free keyless entry. I really want to go back to Subaru (I owned a 2005 3.0R Outback before the MDX, a MDX before that), but the Nav situation and a high depreciation rate in early years for the higher equipped Subaru models worries me. My alternate choices are the Volvo V50 R Design or the Audi A4 Avant. If I wasn't worried about gas going back to $5/ gallon, I would just stick with the MDX as I love it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    next to none 3.6R Limited with NAV

    The opposite could be true - those sell the quickest.

    The people willing to pay more for the first on the block are also the most likely to want them loaded up.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    Ssminton,

    The integrated NAVs are sweet. Back in 2005 portable ones were going for just under $1k, versus $2k for factory installed (Acura TSX). The interface, size and looks made me bite the bullet and I have no regrets. Walking around Boston I see many broken windows to steal portable ones (and ipods.) Nowadays it&#146;s very hard to justify $2k for factory installed when you can get a very good one at Best Buy for $350 or so.
    It appears the majority of Subaru drivers go for base motors and package…as I said before, very frugal, which is fine! I like a little pizzazz with my Honda reliability, thus the Acura brand.

    The Outback interior is very nice (actually the nicest of all Subarus). I agree with you that depreciation for the high end Limited with NAV will be rather bad, but I plan to keep it for 5-7 years. The RDX is a non-starter (and owner satisfaction is low). As for the MDX &#150; too big unless you have teenagers going to soccer practice.

    If you are truly concerned about depreciation stay away from the Volvo. Even with $3-6k off MSRP it is still more expensive than Outback and it depreciates faster (especially with the brand for sale.) Most dealers will have only one V50 on the lot. It does not move. The NAV system is the worst in the industry. Uses a remote control and is not integrated with the rest of the electronics! The A4 Avant is very nice but the trunk is not functional and long term driving comments are not great (very harsh sport driving- although you may like that.) Plus with Audi you get to visit the dealership every few months to fix something.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    ateixeira,

    that is true but I check the inventory a couple of times everyday for the last 3-4 weeks. It's growing (post C4C) and only once did i see the $35k "ghost." plus many dealers love to have "pending sale" on their inventory.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You don't even have to spend $350.

    Costco has the Nuvi 260w for $180 IIRC, and the 265wt with traffic info included is $220. Both are 4.3" screens, text-to-speech, pretty well equipped. I have one of each, and they're great, much better than the Nuvi 200W (about $149 now).

    $430 buys you the new 5" models that just came out, with Bluetooth and all the frills, including traffic.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    I haven't been looking too closely, but it may have to do with the production schedules, if not demand. For the 3.6, the "premium" is the base model, isn't it? I would expect those to be in higher demand than the Limited version.
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    The 3.6R has base, premium and limited (just like the 4 cylinder). I think that here in New England most people would add heated seats $1000 to the Premium so it gets close to the Limited $2k higher price, which includes heated seats. Just a guess.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    Whoa! Heated seats (all weather package) is a thousand-dollar option?! MSRP is $400 on the Forester, I wonder what all that includes for the Outback. It must be more than the mirrors, seats, and windshield.
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Yeah, the aftermarket units represent much better value than the factory systems, which are overpriced by a factor of at least 2. I've got a foot in both camps; my wife's Lexus is equipped with factory NAV, while I have a 2005-vintage Garmin c330 that we move between our other 2 cars.

    Even if all of our cars had factory NAV, we'd still need a portable unit to cover those vacations that involve getting on a plane & picking up a rental car at the other end.
  • I prefer portable NAV because they're so much cheaper, they can serve more than one car, including rental cars, and you can walk with it when you get where your going.

    But there's an an option between factory and portable -- aftermarket in-dash. Recently I saw a double-DIN Kenwood NAV/Radio/CD/DVD/MP3 with a 7 or 8 inch LCD that had Garmin navigation. The NAV menus were just like other Garmins.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,727
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...tback-25i.html

    This is the first test I've seen of the 6-speed manual in a non-turbo model.

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    That was a darned good write-up, referring to this article:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=153789

    This statement about sums it up for me:

    But if you were hoping this new Outback was going to remain a tidy AWD wagon made smarter for you and roomier for guests, you'll be disappointed with Subaru's newest SUV.
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • red927red927 Posts: 118
    According to cars101.com, the 3.6 Premium has everything the 3.6 base has plus the All Weather Package, 10-way power driver's seat and leather wrapped steering whell with audio controls
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,727
    One thing to keep in mind is that all editors reviewing vehicles do bring their own bias (often age-driven) to the table to some degree. Edmunds is no different. Most of their editors are 30-somethings, and their comments often reflect those of others in that age bracket. If you're 40+ or older (or 20-ish or younger), you may well disagree with what's been reported here.

    I know that I, now age 64, look at cars much differently than when I was in my 20s or 30s (even though I drive a WRX!). Something to think about...

    Bob
  • I am seeing lots of comments on lower cost of the portable units. I have factory installed in my everyday car, and I have a portable unit for travel so I am familiar with both camps. I would love to hear from someone on the board who actually uses a portable unit everyday. Since this is a Subaru board, I understand that it will be hard to get insights from people using factory units everyday. I hear lots of people recommending the portable, but I don't see how these are close ot equal to the factory. Operation while driving, having to remove the unit when parking, and short-lasting mounting systems for everyday use are just a few of the disadvantages of the portables.

    I just recently purchased a new Tom-Tom portable to replace my 5-year old Garmin, which I use while travelling. I find the new unit, a touch screen, to be very difficult to operate while driving. The older Garmin, with ATM style button control was much easier. Still, I find myself using my Nav almost daily to check traffic on the way to work, find a bite to eat, etc. Will I really be happy with the new higher-end portables? Has anyone seen a portable with weather service?
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