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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback



  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 683
    I recently drove the 3.6R Outback, comparing it to my 2005 3.0R with only 19,000 miles. They are very different cars:

    The positives for the 3.6R are much better tip-in throttle response and an isolated very comfortable ride over pot-holed roads.

    The negative is a ponderousness with practically no road feel through the steering...and a significantly larger turning circle.

    I drove the 2010 Forester at the same dealer and found it to be very capable and with the same ride as my 2005 3.0R and with the same interior passenger room as the Outback 3.6R. I noted the smaller cargo area.
  • ssmintonssminton Posts: 155
    Thanks for the feedback... I agree with your driving assessment of the 2010 3.6R. It is a nice car and a decent value but a bit vanilla in the drive experience. I remember being excited about the way my 2005 3.0R drove after a test drive. When you speak of the Forester, are you referring to the Turbo model?
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 683
    When you speak of the Forester, are you referring to the Turbo model?

    No, I drove the normally aspirated model and found its around-town performance not too different from my 2005 3.0R. There was adequate off-the-line accelleration. The turbo would have been faster of course,

    The ride also was much the same as the 3.0R with good center feel. The interior appearance was as good as my 3.0R, but some materials were not as good quality..mouse fur headliner, minimal thickness carpet. The leather seating seemed similar The huge increase in interior room certainly makes back seat passengers more comfortable. Lack of protective side cladding makes parking dents more probable.

    If I needed to replace the 3.0R right now the Forester with leather would be my choice. I'm not sure I would want the turbo. Having driven the OB 2.5 l w/CVT, I can't imagine tolerating the noise.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If you didn't like the CVT, go ahead and sample the Forester XT. The automatic is criticized for having only 4 ratios but it is very responsive. Try it, it's better in real life than it is on paper.

    Portable Nav systems now take voice commands. They're high end, but still cost a quarter to a third of what built-in systems cost. Map updates cost $65 from Garmin vs. $230 from Subaru. And new 5" screens have arrived, too.

    I'm sure someone (peaty?) will find an override for the lock-out while in motion.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    After 1-2 months or researching small/midsize CUV/SUVs: RAV4 (V6 a great overall car) , CRV (no power), Tiguan (best looking but smallest trunk, reliable?, too expensive), etc and wagons (Outback, Volvo V50 (small trunk), XC70 (interior is an acquired taste, depreciation bad), A5 Avant (too expensive for what it is, small trunk, reliability?), VW Jetta/Passat wagons (worst reliability brand), it came pretty clear that the Outback is the overall best choice for me. I never owned a Subbie before, I’m one of those Honda drivers that Subaru was hoping to capture with the new Outback. It’s clear that loyal Subbies are upset about the new look and height but it really works for me.

    I need to trade my (awesome) ’05 TSX w/NAV for practicality now that I have a 5 month old infant. Honda just came out with the Cross Tour today but it is just another Venza (at first looked like the perfect vehicle-sedan like drive but taller, 4 door hatch, etc but reviews show it is the worst of all worlds (heavy, somewhat cheap interior, and those 20” tires? Not comfortable and $$)

    My questions are the following:

    1) I live in Mass. The dealer inventories show tons of 2.5 basic and Premiums but just a trickle of 3.6R…ALL Limited! Why is it impossible to find 3.6 Premiums?

    2) In any case there are next to none 3.6R Limited with NAV. I read here that dealers don’t want them because it does not interact while driving? That is a problem.

    3) I’m thinking of getting the V6 Premium and a portable NAV. The Limited (+$2k) does nothing for me unless it comes with the NAV.

    4) Why does Subaru force us to get Limited and sunroof before getting NAV? It’s like they know most Subbies are frugal so let’s hose the ones with some $ for NAV!

  • I hear you on the Nav! As a high-mileage driver, I have found it most economical to switch cars every few years. I believe that factory installed Navigation was actually more widely available back in early 2007 than it is today. I am also driving an Acura, a 2007 MDX Sport. I love the Nav system and especially the integrated traffic. Subaru is really behind on the technology. Even my Nissan Altima rental last week had hands-free keyless entry. I really want to go back to Subaru (I owned a 2005 3.0R Outback before the MDX, a MDX before that), but the Nav situation and a high depreciation rate in early years for the higher equipped Subaru models worries me. My alternate choices are the Volvo V50 R Design or the Audi A4 Avant. If I wasn't worried about gas going back to $5/ gallon, I would just stick with the MDX as I love it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    next to none 3.6R Limited with NAV

    The opposite could be true - those sell the quickest.

    The people willing to pay more for the first on the block are also the most likely to want them loaded up.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20

    The integrated NAVs are sweet. Back in 2005 portable ones were going for just under $1k, versus $2k for factory installed (Acura TSX). The interface, size and looks made me bite the bullet and I have no regrets. Walking around Boston I see many broken windows to steal portable ones (and ipods.) Nowadays it’s very hard to justify $2k for factory installed when you can get a very good one at Best Buy for $350 or so.
    It appears the majority of Subaru drivers go for base motors and package…as I said before, very frugal, which is fine! I like a little pizzazz with my Honda reliability, thus the Acura brand.

    The Outback interior is very nice (actually the nicest of all Subarus). I agree with you that depreciation for the high end Limited with NAV will be rather bad, but I plan to keep it for 5-7 years. The RDX is a non-starter (and owner satisfaction is low). As for the MDX – too big unless you have teenagers going to soccer practice.

    If you are truly concerned about depreciation stay away from the Volvo. Even with $3-6k off MSRP it is still more expensive than Outback and it depreciates faster (especially with the brand for sale.) Most dealers will have only one V50 on the lot. It does not move. The NAV system is the worst in the industry. Uses a remote control and is not integrated with the rest of the electronics! The A4 Avant is very nice but the trunk is not functional and long term driving comments are not great (very harsh sport driving- although you may like that.) Plus with Audi you get to visit the dealership every few months to fix something.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20

    that is true but I check the inventory a couple of times everyday for the last 3-4 weeks. It's growing (post C4C) and only once did i see the $35k "ghost." plus many dealers love to have "pending sale" on their inventory.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You don't even have to spend $350.

    Costco has the Nuvi 260w for $180 IIRC, and the 265wt with traffic info included is $220. Both are 4.3" screens, text-to-speech, pretty well equipped. I have one of each, and they're great, much better than the Nuvi 200W (about $149 now).

    $430 buys you the new 5" models that just came out, with Bluetooth and all the frills, including traffic.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,391
    I haven't been looking too closely, but it may have to do with the production schedules, if not demand. For the 3.6, the "premium" is the base model, isn't it? I would expect those to be in higher demand than the Limited version.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    The 3.6R has base, premium and limited (just like the 4 cylinder). I think that here in New England most people would add heated seats $1000 to the Premium so it gets close to the Limited $2k higher price, which includes heated seats. Just a guess.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,391
    Whoa! Heated seats (all weather package) is a thousand-dollar option?! MSRP is $400 on the Forester, I wonder what all that includes for the Outback. It must be more than the mirrors, seats, and windshield.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Yeah, the aftermarket units represent much better value than the factory systems, which are overpriced by a factor of at least 2. I've got a foot in both camps; my wife's Lexus is equipped with factory NAV, while I have a 2005-vintage Garmin c330 that we move between our other 2 cars.

    Even if all of our cars had factory NAV, we'd still need a portable unit to cover those vacations that involve getting on a plane & picking up a rental car at the other end.
  • I prefer portable NAV because they're so much cheaper, they can serve more than one car, including rental cars, and you can walk with it when you get where your going.

    But there's an an option between factory and portable -- aftermarket in-dash. Recently I saw a double-DIN Kenwood NAV/Radio/CD/DVD/MP3 with a 7 or 8 inch LCD that had Garmin navigation. The NAV menus were just like other Garmins.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661

    This is the first test I've seen of the 6-speed manual in a non-turbo model.

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,391
    That was a darned good write-up, referring to this article:

    This statement about sums it up for me:

    But if you were hoping this new Outback was going to remain a tidy AWD wagon made smarter for you and roomier for guests, you'll be disappointed with Subaru's newest SUV.
  • red927red927 Posts: 118
    According to, the 3.6 Premium has everything the 3.6 base has plus the All Weather Package, 10-way power driver's seat and leather wrapped steering whell with audio controls
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    One thing to keep in mind is that all editors reviewing vehicles do bring their own bias (often age-driven) to the table to some degree. Edmunds is no different. Most of their editors are 30-somethings, and their comments often reflect those of others in that age bracket. If you're 40+ or older (or 20-ish or younger), you may well disagree with what's been reported here.

    I know that I, now age 64, look at cars much differently than when I was in my 20s or 30s (even though I drive a WRX!). Something to think about...

  • I am seeing lots of comments on lower cost of the portable units. I have factory installed in my everyday car, and I have a portable unit for travel so I am familiar with both camps. I would love to hear from someone on the board who actually uses a portable unit everyday. Since this is a Subaru board, I understand that it will be hard to get insights from people using factory units everyday. I hear lots of people recommending the portable, but I don't see how these are close ot equal to the factory. Operation while driving, having to remove the unit when parking, and short-lasting mounting systems for everyday use are just a few of the disadvantages of the portables.

    I just recently purchased a new Tom-Tom portable to replace my 5-year old Garmin, which I use while travelling. I find the new unit, a touch screen, to be very difficult to operate while driving. The older Garmin, with ATM style button control was much easier. Still, I find myself using my Nav almost daily to check traffic on the way to work, find a bite to eat, etc. Will I really be happy with the new higher-end portables? Has anyone seen a portable with weather service?
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