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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    You're welcome!

    Oh, and the only luck I need is to not get a speeding ticket. ;)
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,694
    I updated my post, while you were responding.

    Bob
  • perritoperrito Posts: 66
    OK, sounds nice, apart from the larger,flabbier proportions. The GT is just now...a little too big. The other aspect I really miss from Edmunds reviews is the "old" Stereo Review theme -- why did that ever get dropped? A minor point, but man it just bugs me!
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,576
    I debated getting the nets and eventually decided against it. I figured they would be in the way more than they were used. The floor mats are pretty good; definitely worth the cost (even at retail) because they are quite inexpensive and are contoured to the vehicle. That said, I have purchased MacNeil WeatherTech FloorLiners for my last two Subaru vehicles. These offer much better protection of the floor area than can be done with a floor-only mat. The front liners are especially well-done; while the rear liner works but tends to move around (at least with a five-year-old using it) a little, thereby allowing rocks, etc., to get between the back of the liner and the front of the carpeted area below the rear seat. The drawback is that the Floorliner costs $160 for front and back; I think the fronts are $100 if purchased separately.
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Very, very nice.

    So it has trajectory lines, that would have been my next question. I don't think the Tribeca got those, so this system is better than that flagship's. The screen is also an inch bigger, 8" vs. 7". I think the Forester's is 6.5".

    Finally Subaru is truly offering some value for the money.
  • wtd44wtd44 Posts: 1,211
    I am quite interested in the OB for 2010, and am wondering if the factory equips them for towing. A visit to a really big dealership on a day when they were closed gave me the idea that towing may not be available. :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Of course it can. Bob will have the details on the capacities...
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    Forgive me for editorializing, but doesn't anybody read the sales brochures or look at the Subaru websites before posting questions on message boards? :sick: There are so many questions on these boards with people asking about availability of options and specs for things that are clearly laid out in the official literature.

    (End rant)

    Sorry about that... :blush: Anyway, the Outback is rated to tow 1,000 pounds without trailer brakes and 2,700 lb with brakes, with the 4 cyl engine; and 3,000 lbs with trailer brakes with the H6.

    I ordered the hitch from the factory, it's a 1.25" hitch. It is nicely integrated into the bumper. If you want 2", you have to go aftermarket.

    It's very uncommon for the cars on the lot to be equipped from the factory. My dealer was willing to let me order my Outback without a deposit until I told him I wanted the hitch, then he said I'd have to give him $500 nonrefundable deposit. So not seeing hitches at a big dealer doesn't mean they're no available.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,694
    2700 for H4 and 3000 for H6, if you have trailer brakes. No trailer brakes and it's 1000 across the board; which is a restriction that's typical for most brands, be it car, SUV or truck.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Pretty good review, though I felt like Edmunds was unusually hard on it, for some reason.

    The numbers are phenomenal. Acceleration and braking beat not only the old spec.B, but also the MazdaSpeed6. And keep in mind those were both special edition tuner cars, this 2.5GT Limited is not.

    Watch the video, then the video of the Speed6. vs previous Legacy GT comes up. Watch both.

    The new Legacy has significantly less body roll in the slalom. Braking from 60mph is 13 feet shorter. They say the shifter linkage has improved.

    Yet the tone of the article is critical. I don't get it.
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    Thanks Bob for telling me that you updated the post. I never would have seen that otherwise as it was relegated to the previous page.

    I'd be curious as to how it compares with a Garmin. I think you may have mentioned that before, but maybe not in too much detail? Obviously any portable NAVI units will be significantly cheaper, and the maps may be more up to date, as with the POIs. Can you elaborate a bit more on the portable vs. in-dash Subie NAVI units? It's easy for those of us who have not "lived" with an in-dash unit, to scoff at it, but I believe you also have a portable GPS unit. So your hands-on experience with both would be very helpful. Thanks.

    I have a 3-year old Garmin Nuvi 360. I couldn't possibly put in writing here every difference, and each person has different needs anyway, so I'll try to summarize....

    First off, someone coming from a Garmin is going to hate the Outback nav -- at first. The user interface appears to be not as elegant or refined. After playing with it for a while (hours), what I found is that different is not necessarily worse. It's just, well, different. The user interface and menu structure requires a learning curve because it's not copied from Garmin, so Garmin users will at first feel it in unintuitive. Once you learn where everything is, and figure out how to program points of interests and waypoints, and decipher all of the meanings of the different icons on the screen, and learn the quirky way to set up your favorite destinations and select a state to search in, it actually works very, very well.

    The Subaru nav excells at quick startup, loud and friendly speech, and a feature called "QuickPOI" that shows common nearby destinations on the screen that you can click on while driving, like gas stations, and get detailed info about them and even call using Bluetooth. It also benefits from the giant screen by having split screen features and a handy zoomed-in inlay for your next turn.

    The POI database is extensive, consuming 3 DVD's, so there's more types of POI's than a Garmin. It's more like the yellow pages.

    The voice activation capability is also extensive, but the instructions on use are really, really poorly documented in the manual so you just need to play with it to understand. The voice activation lets you do most functions even when driving.

    So the only things I liked better with my Garmin are the text-to-speech (not a big loss since the road name is in front of you in the Outback), 3-D view (turns out I'm starting to like the 2-D view better anyway), and of course the portability.

    Price remains a factor, but as I've said many times on these boards -- if you can afford the $2000, you'll appreciate the complete integration of audio with the nav, bluetooth, MP3, radio as well as the rear camera, all playing nice through the speakers and using the steering wheel controls. It's still expensive though but with technology trickle-down, I bet we start to see systems like this closer to $1300 in the next few years now that Bluetooth and rear cameras are starting to become standard equipment in many cars.

    OK, I've said as much as can. I totally need to get back to my day job! :shades: \

    Peace out,

    Elliot
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,694
    I recently got a Garmin 1490T, with the larger 5" screen. This is my first GPS, so I'm still in the process of learning it. I've said all along that I really appreciate the fully integrated NAVI units, for the very reasons you elaborated on.

    The 1490T is pretty good. It does have Bluetooth and free traffic. The Bluetooth is really appreciated—but there's no phonebook, which I find really frustrating, The free traffic is just so-so at best. I could subscribe to an MSN (?) traffic source, but I'm too cheap. ;) It's also got an "Eco Drive" function, which so far seem more like a gimmick than a useful feature. Finally, it's nowhere as elegant as having a built-in GPS, that's fully integrated with the car's functions.

    I too just started using the 2-D viewing, and I seem to prefer that over the 3-D screen.

    Bob
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Don't know how many people on this forum test drove the Toyota Venza. I did and I don't know anything about cars and the ride was horrible. The dealer explained to me that it was because of the 20 inch wheels, which are standard on the model I drove. You could feel every bump on the road and the ride was not smooth at all.

    It was a shame because it was a nice-looking vehicle, the step-in height was perfect for me and the amenities inside the car were excellent, but all of that was diminished by the awful ride.

    I came back to the Outback. Two more weeks until my new car arrives, just in time for the November incentives. Anyone know if Subaru will start offering cash incentives in November on the current model year?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,694
    I sat in the Venza, and yes, it was impressive—inside. Unlike you, however, I hate the exterior styling of that car. It comes off as a Dodge Magnum rip-off, with the huge wheels and chopped-look roof. Nope, don't like it one bit.

    Bob
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    I went to a dealer last weekend to check out the interior. We could not go sooner despite researching for months as we needed a baby sitter. Anyhow, my first impression from a "near luxury" Acura driver was that it was fine. The interior is slightly cheaper than my nearly 5 year old car but that is a badge issue. Some of the rubber at the bottom of holders were not properly glued so I can see how users complain of rattle noises down the line if fit & finish is so-so.

    The surprise was that ordering navigation system is a 4 month affair. In fact they showed me an order from June that they still were waiting for delivery! In our discussions about lock-out features they were surprised that Acura does/did not.

    I'll test drive soon, hopefully.

    I have one comment for Elliot's remark: "It's still expensive though but with technology trickle-down, I bet we start to see systems like this closer to $1300 in the next few years."

    I'm not sure this will happen...soon. In 2005 the Navi on the TSX was $2k vs. paying $800 for an after-market. I thought it was worth it for the looks, size and interface. In hindsight not worring about getting broken into for the portable ones was an added bonus. For 2009, the price for Navi is the same (Acura) but a good portable is down to $200-400. After 4-5 years auto manufacturers have not bothered to reduce prices. I'm sure it's high margin.

    Thanks.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    Most of you might remember when the first Bush lost the re-election mostly beacuse the tag line "it's the economy, stupid!" was so true.

    Anyhow, to answer so many questions/remarks about reduced features and cheaper finish on this and many other blogs, the answer (mostly anyhow) is the falling US$ as a currency vs. other mayor countries. The Japanese yen appreciated 30% since late 2001. This means J auto makers make little money from selling cars to americans due to our horrible currency. The euro is up over 65%.

    Competition is tough and raising prices much is not an option, thus the cost cutting moves (eg. non folding side mirrors)

    Anyways, not trying to insult anybody with the headline but sometimes the obvious escapes us, especially U.S. centric mentality
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,576
    The bigger the wheel, the more jarring the ride (all other things being equal). I noticed a dramatic improvement in the ride quality between the stock 17" wheels and the 16" wheels (stock from a 2007 Forester) I put on my Forester recently. Granted, some difference could be the tires, too, as they are different brands, etc., but that extra 1/2" of rubber between the rim and the ground absorbs a lot of vibration.
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    I think almost every new car I test drove was nice - compared to my 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan mommy-mobile that on a good day gets 15MPG around town, 18MPG highway with no acceleration to speak of. ( I am from NYC, my husband taught me how to drive when we were still young and he was a NY cabbie and I have a lead foot.) We were also stationed in Germany for four years so we got used to the autobahn speeds - or lack thereof.

    I am hoping that with my new Outback and the MPG gauge right in front of me, I will learn how to be a better, calmer driver - except for the people in the DC area who don't know how to drive - except drive me crazy by going the speed limit in the left lane!

    Some of the Outback consumer reviews complained about having the MPG gauge instead of a temperature gauge, but I think I will find it helpful. I am looking forward to computing my MPG after my first fill-up.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    I didn't know any of that stuff when I was test driving. I just thought all new cars would have a smooth, quiet ride with all the improvements and technology since 1998 when my van was still new. Actually, my beat-up old van had a better ride than the Venza.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Elliot, couldn't agree with you more about reading and researching before posting.

    CARS101.com (I found it by accident by typing Subaru Research) was the site I relied on most for my research, specs, options and comparisons to similar vehicles before deciding on the 2010 Outback Limited.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    First of all, though I like Subarus a lot, That said, the Venza is one of the best looking station wagon-type cars I have ever seen. Secondly, if you tested it with 20" wheels, you did not test it. Try 16" or 17" or even 18", but never never go bigger, unless your priorities are looks first. I think 16" wheels do a good job for most people (and ride much more smoothly than bigger ones), and I remember easily when 15" wheels were the big ones. Looks have usurped both utility and handling, You did not give the Venza a chance, And neither did the salesperson by not offering you a drive in another wheel size.
  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    The Venza only comes with either 19" or 20" wheels as standard equipment. A dealer would have to go outside the Toyota standard equipment, option, and accessory marketing plan to use anything smaller. The dealer did exactly as Toyota intended which is sell the vehicle with one of the two standard wheel sizes. It appears Toyota did not give the Venza a chance at reasonable wheel size and customer ride comfort. Blame Toyota not the dealer using the Toyota marketing plan or the customer who came for a test drive.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    The problem is Toyota, not the dealer. 19" and 20" wheels are TOO BIG for the car. Toyota is simply catering to the current big wheel fad to hawk its wares.

    Subaru, OTOH, is intelligently utilizing 17" wheels on its Outback. They are acceptably large cosmetically and much more functional.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Let's cut people some slack here.

    Subaru has 3 different engines (2.5i, 2.5T, and 3.6R) and 3 different transmissions (CVT, 5EAT, 6spd MT) and at least 3 different models (i, Premium, Limited) of each of those in 2 different body styles (sedan, crossover).

    You need a PhD to keep it all straight, and that's just Legacy/Outback.

    In Europe? It gets even more complicated. Add more engines to deal with (diesel) and one extra body style (wagon).

    Toss in Forester, which many people compare, and you add 2 more transmissions (4EAT, 5 spd MT) and a different turbo engine (224hp) and a PZEV option on the non turbo (with differnet power ratings) and by the way they don't come in all combinations, only some.

    It's tough to keep it all straight, so I can't blame people for coming for help, we should welcome them and try to help. :shades:

    Toyota's Venza? You have one choice to make: 4 banger or V6. Period.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Inquiring minds want to know......

    With that said, there is enough research material available on the internet to answer some, not all, of the questions posted. I guess you just have to know where to look. Sometimes it does take precious time and patience to find what you are looking for.

    The CARS101 website was extremely helpful to me while I was researching the Outback. It was very clear in explaining what was new for the 2010 models, what options were available, and how they were packaged. There are loads of pictures so you can see what the different options look like before you decide to buy.

    I am not sure that every car manufacturer has such a dedicated salesman as Subaru has in Joe Spitz for developing and maintaining that website. It was truly invaluable to me in making my decision.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I appreciate the car101 web site also, but it was someone here who pointed it out to me. I'm not sure I would have stumbled across it on my own.

    Also, the on-line tools don't always make it simple to see what equipment each model adds. It will just list a huge, long list of equipment and features.

    For instance, what does the Limited package add?

    It's easy to list all of the features, sure, but what if someone wants to know just what it adds over the 2.5i model, to see if they think it's worth the difference?

    Not to mention it changes year by year. It used to include a moonroof, but not any more. The Premium package always had the all-weather gear included, but that's not always the case any more either.

    It's just a complex task to keep track of it all.

    Changing gears...

    In the Miata community, something funny happened. Mazda used to have a base model, then Touring, then Sport, then Grand Touring. They flip-flopped. Now the Touring model is better equipped than the Sport. It's confusing like crazy to someone shopping for used cars. An 06 Sport = 07 Touring, 06 Touring = 07 Sport.

    Try keeping that one straight. :D

    No cars101 for Mazda, either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    To answer that seemingly simple question, I started here:

    http://cars101.com/

    then went here

    http://www.cars101.com/outback.html

    then here

    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2009photos.html

    then here

    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2009.html

    and found it:

    everything the 2.5i SE has, plus...
    new Dark privacy tinted glass (2.5i and SE have standard tint)
    new Power Passenger seat, 4 way
    new Passenger seat lumbar support
    new 2.5i Limited alloy wheels now the same 'turbo design' that has been on the 08 XT and 3.0R LL Bean models
    new Audio controls on steering wheel (also has cruise controls)

    Automatic Sportshift 4spd transmission (no manual available)
    Leather interior, 3 spoke leather wrapped steering wheel, parking brake, shift knob

    Woodgrain shift knob
    Woodgrain patterned interior trim
    Windshield dark shade band across top of windshield
    Climate control, dual zone front, 6speed fan, auto and manual functions
    Body colored door handles
    Body colored outside mirrors
    Rear seat center fold down armrest
    17" 'turbo design' alloy wheels that have been on the XTs
    Steering wheel, leather wrapped, with Audio Control and Cruise Controls
    Dual pane power glass sunroof with auto open/close (deletes sunglass holder)

    Stereo: AM/FM/ 6 disc CD changer. Plays MP3, R/RW discs. Auxilliary input in center console. Pre-wired for XM or Sirius satellite radio. Panasonic.
    new Harman Kardon audio system, 440-watt, 9-speaker, 8 channel amp/equalizer, subwoofer under front passenger seat, subtle speed sensitive volume control.

    Optional Navigation System (model code 9DH), Kenwood 7" touch screen, GPS
    Disc updates only available from store.kenwoodusa.com


    It's a similar number of steps for the 2010, and then I'd have to compare. So more than double that much work.

    Ask here and someone will say "pretty much the same except the moonroof is a la carte". You'll get an answer in seconds.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Ask here and someone will say "pretty much the same except the moonroof is a la carte". You'll get an answer in seconds.

    I guess - only if someone happens to be on-line at the same time you are asking/posting your question.

    Maybe it's just the way my mind works. I would still want to do the research myself to confirm any information I am given. Probably my suspicious NY nature. :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think a smart shopper will use both.

    First you do some general research on the models you like, and create a short list.

    Once you have a short list, though, there's nothing like asking an expert on that particular brand/car for advice. They're the ones that can help you identify which model may be the best value, or one that may fit yours needs best. They can also tell you what to look out for.

    For instance, I know plenty about Subarus, but I was new to Toyota when I went minivan shopping. The pros warned me about the run-flat tires, especially the cost of replacement after their short lifespan. You couldn't read that on any specs list.

    So even if I thought I knew what model I wanted, I'd still ask in the Sienna threads for expert opinions.

    Any how, cars101 is extremely useful and should not be ignored.
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