All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

blackbean

Yes, Thule will probably come up with an adaptor that will make my old accessories fit, but nothing on their website yet for fitment...maybe I need ot wait until the car actually goes on sale!

Can you tell I am ready to buy a new car??? hehehe...now if I can just find a good home for my '02 Bean...

pilot1226

Any word on potential diesel offerings for the `10 Outbacks? I remember seeing an article somewhere on the forum regarding the diesel being offered on European models (although Diesel is excessively more popular there compared to the US), but considering you get almost 33% more "mileage" when cost breakdown is done vs. 87 octane, it's hard to pass up.

I won't be ready to purchase the new Outback until the `12 model, anyway. I don't like buying a brand-new model because they need a year or two to fix the bugs and stuff in it, and my `09 Legacy should be paid off by next summer.

I like the hood design so far - it is somewhat resemblant to the Infiniti G & M hoods with the curves around the headlights, and the slightly higher chassis would be nice. CVT is nice too to help get rid of the shift shock and usually CVT is a bit more efficient than the standard Auto Trans.

rsholland

Very, very nice. I took it on a 10-mile or so test drive. The CVT works fine. It was hard to tell the difference between this and a conventional automatic, other than no shifting of gears.

A few points:

• In the manual-shift mode, you can only shift via the paddle shifters. No longer do you have the option of (also) using the gearshift.

• The shifts in manual mode seemed reasonably quick, but I'd want to try it again to make sure I'm correct here.

• This car had the AWP—but guess what? There is no windshield deicer! Another victim of the bean counters.

• The car is very quiet and refined. It will make a good highway cruiser.

• Power? Okay, but nothing to write home about. I'm sure the H6 and GT will be much more satisfying.

For the average family (not the gearhead), this will be a fine car. I have not driven a new Accord, Camry, Mazda6 or Passat, so I can't make direct comparisons to those vehicles; but I suspect it will hold its own in that company.

Bob

red927

According to cars.101, the AWP includes the windshield-icer. I guess Subaru has changed their minds. I wonder if the price of the package will reflect the deletion?

synzero

...perhaps the lack of the windshield deicer was a pre-production thing?

rsholland

Just found out the AWP does include the windshield deicer.

However, unlike other Subies with this feature, the embedded orange wires are now under the black lower portion of the windshield, so you can't see them.

Bob

ktmotox

When is the 2010 Legacy supposed to be available for sale at Subaru dealers? Is it for sale now? I've seen where production has already started.

rsholland

Cars (Legacys) are starting to trickle in now. I've driven 2, at different dealerships.

Bob

ecotrklvr

Thanks for the review! Sounds like the Outback should stay at the top of my "Wanted" list.

Let us know if you get a crack at a six-speed manual trans version.

zorro16

some of the dealers already have a demo vehicle of both legacy and outback with them . you should check them.

i had a chance to see them yesterday.

my personal toughts on legacy..

the front appears to be from infiniti g37 and the back appears to be from hyundai sonata

and the outback appears to be like a new generation of crossovers, positioned between a car and a crossover.it's not a wagon anymore.

may be we can call it as a tall wagon

and guess what i personally liked the outback more than the legacy

ateixeira

It does almost seem more like a big 5 door. The Impreza went even further in that direction, though. I like wagons, though.

Glad to hear the de-icer was not cut, but how 'bout some folding mirrors?

I guess that's the insurance companies' concern. Well, not really, the deductible will have to be paid each time you hit anything.

rsholland

I also found out that towing is the same as last year (2700/3000 for H4/H6), which is good; not great but good, as I was hoping for an increase to 3500 with the H6 Outback. According to the owner's manual, the Legacy is limited to 1000 pounds, although an SOA rep over at NASIOC has said the Legacy is not rated for towing.

Earlier reports had the towing at 2400 across the board, but that was incorrect.

Bob

ateixeira

Nice to see improvements, but in this month's C&D Comparo of small luxury crossovers, the Volvo was the lowest and it offered 3300 lbs. Most offer 3500 lbs towing, and Subaru really ought to match that, especially with the H6.

synzero

...none have arrived in my area just yet, but there is an event going on next week which supposed to be a reveal (for those who don't follow the industry I suppose) of the '10 Legacy and Outback. I want to go, but finding the time and probably not being able to drive anything means that I'll probably pass.

invest

A gold Legacy arrived at a local dealership this week and my initial impressions are as follows:

Exterior is clunkier (technical term) than it appears in photos and lacks the design elements of the G37 or even the Mazda 6. Interior is attractive, however the fake wood looks very cheap and plastic. The seats are extremely comfortable ( best in class).

That said, I think the overall appearance is better than the model it replaces and i look forward to the test drive. I also believe the car will look better in darker colors.

rsholland

http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=43&item=85

ateixeira

Wow, the CVT kills the manual by a whopping 4mpg.

dcm61

http://content.subaru.com/mailings/insider/0906/insider.html

204meca

DANG! I knew that CVT would be a winner!
How difficult do you think it would be to get one into an 09 or 2010 Forester?
It is enough to make me whine! :sick:

gmginsfo

but for what? My '03 Forester XS Premi is starting to show its age (troublesome sunroof, coffee stains, a few nicks), but is otherwise fine, so I hope to get a good trade-in allowance. Am pleased to see a CVT, the H-6 (even if Subaru's too mum on its mileage), that the Outback is now almost the size of my Forester, and that the Foresters have grown to near-Tribeca proportions.

But then along comes Venza. What's that all about? A Subie wannabe, perhaps, but Toyotas are no slouches, except in turns. Any thoughts on which of these three would be best for this SoCal commuter/sometime mt. driver who's never quite gotten used to the lag in accelleration that's inherent to the H-4?

rsholland

The H6 is not available with the CVT (yet). The Outback is, and always has been, larger than the Forester.

An inherent lack of acceleration with the H4? Not true. The fact that it's a boxer engine has nothing to do with that. Other issues come into play here, not the engine layout.

Recommendation? Forester turbo or Outback H6.

Bob

ateixeira

Toyotas are softer and more isolated. The Subie should be much sportier. They put big wheels on the Venza but that alone doesn't make it sporty. I do like the interior a lot.

If hesitation is a big concern, pay close attention to the transmission in the Venza. The one on my Sienna isn't as responsive as the automatic in my wife's Forester.

priggly

The "big wheels" are merely a marketing ploy as Toyota plays to the current fad in low profile tires. They actually degrade the ride. The Subaru's higher profile tires are a big advantage, less prone to road damage, too, as the highways are in an increasing state of disrepair countrywide.

ateixeira

Yeah, huge rims are definitely overkill on a vehicle like that. It's for cosmetics. I'm sure they could go 2" smaller in diameter and still clear the brakes.

It also increases unsprung weight substantially and forces the suspension to work that much harder.

asdf9

I have to get me one of these cars. I sat in one today on the dealership floor as well. The car was like a dark grey and sharp. It had a 6 CD disk changer, Harmon speakers, 10-way power seat, all kind of controls on the steering wheel, and a moonroof. This car is sharp don't let the haters get to you. Yes it looks like a honda from the back and a infiniti from the front but it's a Subaru!

I'll take mine with the 3.6R. It's been a long time since I've driven a sedan.

rsholland

That's what someone is reporting over at NASIOC with the new CVT. If true, that's impressive, and helps explain how they got a 31 mpg highway rating.

Bob

dentil

We have been waiting for the 2010's to arrive so we could get a better discount on the 2009. Today we drove a 2010 2.5 LTD and now we have a problem. Both my wife and I LOVE the 2010. Now what do we do? What a beautiful car!!! The CVT is smooth and the car has such a nice ride. Lots of leg-room both front and back. I usually have my seat back as far as it will go when I drive and I didn't need it all the way back. Even when I did, the person behind me had lots of room. The Legacy sedan was there too and it is sharp as well!
Dentil

rsholland

It sounds like you already know the answer.

If you're not in a huge rush to get a new car, you might want to wait until the 2010 models become more available (and all the '09s are gone), as you will eventually start seeing discounts at dealers on the '10 models.

...Or you might mention to the salesman that you're going to hold off a bit to see if you can get a better deal when the cars become more plentiful. If you're lucky, and if they really want to make a deal, they may cut you some slack on the price.

...And I agree, the 2010 model is a HUGE improvement over the '09 model. If you opt for the '09, knowing what you already know about the '10 model, you may end up kicking yourself in the long run for being so cheap.

Bob

asdf9

Oh yeah. Definitely hold off. Can you wait till the 2011's come out? I would. Seriously, imagine the deals they have now for the 2009's. Imagine those deals on the 2010's. And don't say anything to the sales person. If they know you love the car they'll hike it up! When you are ready just do the basic buy a new car research. Print out the invoice price with the options you want, then go to the dealer when they have deals and tell them to match it or see ya.

dentil

You are right, I do need to wait! The 2010 model improvement is HUGE and I would not be happy in the long run. My other concern is that my gut always tells me to never buy the 1st year of a new model. But I need an AWD vehicle by next winter since we moved to a house on a hill. Hopefully the discounts will be available by then because I will not pay sticker price. I see in Colorado Springs they are already discounting.
Dentil

dentil

Sounds like a plan I can live with!

ateixeira

That's great. Gotta love tall cruising gear.

My Miata would be buzzing at probably twice that rpm even in 6th. Good thing it's not my trip car.

beachfish2

"Legacy 3.6R 5AT 18 mpg city / 21 mpg combined / 25 mpg hwy"

I can live with 25, thanks.

I still need to sit in one, but I think I'll see if I can get an Outback with every option. I wouldn't be in a hurry, but my father is 87 and wants me to get a new car. I'm driving his '06 Avalon since he can't drive - and therefore he won't be buying a car. He has offered a bribe of half the cost of all the options - but I have to get the NAV whether I want it or not. He likes his gizmos - leftovers from his WWII flying days I guess.

I've been looking at Highlanders and RX10s, but optioned out the stickers are running $39k to $48k and they are in short supply. He liked these two models, but he also liked the looks of the new Outback pics the other day.

As usual you folks are up to date on the news. Thanks.

John... formerly known as beachfish and former owner of an '86 GL dual-range trans wagon and an '02 Forester S.

P.S. - I drove a Venza V6. Terrible ride, felt like an old pickup truck with new high-load shocks on it. Put my checkbook back in my pocket, put my dad back in the Avalon and went to eat lunch. What a disappointment.

ateixeira

I guess I'm not surprised.

Toyota does isolation well, but the idea of putting gigantic 20" wheels on a Camry wagon and trying to tune it to be sporting was bound to produce bad results.

seabrook7039

Having always prefered and driven manuals all my life I was set on picking up a 2010 manual Outback to replace our 2000 manual Outback. But the buzz over the new CVT has raised my curiosity. Has anyone who - like me - is disposed to buying manuals considering the CVT? Any driving CVT experiences to report? Thanks!

ateixeira

I'm curious the same way you are, in fact I'll probably sample both when I finally test drive a 2010.

I'm hopeful, because I like the way the Altima with a CVT drives, and I believe Subaru uses the same supplier.

At the same time, I didn't like the Mitsubishi Outlander with its CVT - very elastic feeling, sort of disconnected. It's hard to explain, I guess.

I'd consider one if it drove like the Nissan, but not if it drove like the Mitsu.

rsholland

My understanding is the Subaru CVT is an in-house design. However, the metal chain belt is supplied by the same company that makes the Audi CVT, so I've been told.

Bob

saedave

My understanding is the Subaru CVT is an in-house design. However, the metal chain belt is supplied by the same company that makes the Audi CVT, so I've been told.

I would presume that the pulley assembly would also come from the supplier since the combination is an engineered unit that has been tested for durability. An untested combination would be quite a gamble.

Only time will tell whether the CVT will like the treatment it gets from Subaru owners who drive in all kinds of weather and bad conditions. The low production volume of Audi CVT models may not be a perfect predictor.

rsholland

Subaru is well aware that their owners keep their cars longer than the average car owner, so I would assume that was taken into consideration when engineering this unit. They certainly don't want to risk losing customers by offering a so-so or unreliable CVT.

Bob

fendertweed

just based on previous experience, I don't want to buy new technology and the CVT is new ... once it establishes a track record for longevity I might go for it but that will take several years of real-world feedback.

I prefer an auto due to a bad knee but if I go for a '10 Outback it'll likely be the 6-speed manual.

rsholland

The H6 still uses the (proven) 5EAT. The CVT, right now, is only offered on the H4 models.

Bob

scottl

I saw a'10 Outback at a dealer over the weekend. What an abomination. It was parked next to a Tribeca, and it looked almost identical.

Subaru has made a habit of making each succeeding generation of a model fatter and more bizarre looking. The dealer told me he thought they had priced themselves out of their traditional market now, and had to add useless bling to compete with all the other cars with useless bling.

It looks to me like Suzuki is slipping into the rugged, reliable and economical slot formerly held by Subaru. Here's hoping they can come up with a mid-sized AWD to complement the SX4, which is selling very well here in Colorado.

I'm looking for a great deal on an '09. If I can't find one, I won't be buying a new Subaru any time soon.

rsholland

Looks are purely subjective. The new 2010 Outback is clearly a better car where it counts.

Bob

hailalmamater

I was under the impression that the cars were actually cheaper across the board than their predecessors. At least the sedans seem to be. Based on what I've seen they are pretty competitive with Toyo/Honda/Nissan offerings, but have AWD. The size increase has helped greatly with the interior room, which, as a tall person, eliminated Subaru for consideration with the earlier model. I looked at the 2.5 Limited sedan and thought it was pretty nice for $24,500. Only issue I had was the hard plastic on the top of the dash - Subaru should have gone soft touch on this part.

saedave

I'm looking for a great deal on an '09. If I can't find one, I won't be buying a new Subaru any time soon

Be sure to look at the Forester too. It has better back seat room than the 2009 Outback! And the styling is to my eye more pleasant.

freeney

Just drove the 2010 Legacy and came away impressed. CVT is smooth and consistent. The cabin is quieter than prior Legacy models (though no mid-size car I've driven compares with the new, coffin-silent Malibu). The Legacy ride is reasonably firm but not harsh. The ergonomics suited my 6-foot frame to the extent it isn't hard to imagine driving a long distance and getting out feeling fresh. Shorter people will crane their necks to see out the back, though. Ingress and egress is probably best-in-class.

kurtamaxxxguy

Royal Moore Subaru of Hillsboro OR was cordial as they let me take a closer look at the '10 Outback 2.5i Premium today.

The exterior suggested a melding of '09 Tribeca and '09 Forester but with its own uniqueness. The lower door cladding appears designed to keep snow off the interior trim.

There was a lot of room inside, far more than the '09 Outback. I didn't have to duck to get past the roof rail, and with the driver seat comfortably positioned, there was plenty of toe and leg room in the rear seat. There's soft trim on the upper door molding, and some brushed trim on upper console. The instruments and controls were easy to see and reach. The cargo area reminded me a lot of the Foresters, but there was more room, and a big HarmonKardon subwoof in the rear right corner.

By comparison, the '09 Outback, with front seat set the same, had virtually no toe room and very little leg room.

As I was not buying anything, I didn't ask to drive it.
But I am very curious as to how that CVT improves the passing acceleration as well as fuel economy (some reports suggest 0-60 acceleration has improved to around 8 seconds).

Still, in all honesty, if the '10 Outback design had been around when I compared '09 Forester to Outback, I may have ended up with the Outback. :shades:

colloquor

I wouldn't exactly call the CVT "new." One of the first applications of a CVT was in a motorcycle in 1910 in England. In 1923, the Brits offered a CVT in an automobile application. However, the first mass produced application was by DAF in The Netherlands in 1958 for their DAF automobiles.

In 1987, Subaru introduced the Justy in Japan with an ECVT (electronically-controlled continuously variable transmission). And, in 1989, the Justy became the first car offered with a CVT in the USA.

Thus, CVT is not new technology.

rsholland

CVTs are actually older than you think—much older...

Leonardo da Vinci, in 1490, conceptualized a stepless continuously variable transmission.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cvt.htm

Bob

colloquor

Yes, I was aware of Leonardo da Vinci's design, but I only wanted to refer to the "modern era" - if you will.