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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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  • mikey00mikey00 Posts: 462
    The cold feet problem we were discussing is both systems. The auto climate control also adds the problem of not controling the temp as well as other cars with auto temp control. Both issues are well documented on the Subaru boards. I have a new Legacy Premium which has the manual heat and I can confirm the cold feet problem. I have a new Outback Limited on order which has the auto climate control so I will get to test that in a few weeks.
  • jeffm5jeffm5 Posts: 107
    I've had a 2010 Outback, 4 cyl. Limited since late Oct. I have about 4,000 miles on it. We love it. Handles fine, including on ice/snow covered roads. Like the CVT tranny. While no race car, has enough power for our needs. You'll see talk on this thread about weak heat on your feet. I have noticed that. Not a big deal for me. I just let the car warm up before I turn the heat on then run it on Auto for a couple of mins. I then have to cut the fan back because it gets too warm. I wrote more detailed reveiws on this thread, nos. 626 & 632. Suggest you give those a look. BTW, my sister-in-law traded her relatively new Honda CRV for a new 2008 Forester in 12/2009. She likes the Subaru AWD system much better than the system used in the CRV. Hope this is helpful.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,451
    I think it is a little odd that you would consider two sedans along with a CRV. It seems the Accord would be a better choice to consider, but not if you are looking at the AWD option.

    I have never understood the statement "tends to fishtail if throttle is lifted midturn." I have owned four Subaru vehicles aging between '96 and '10, and the only time any of them break loose is when I tell them to do so. Tires always count for a lot, but it is difficult to find a more sure-footed car. The stability control (VDC) on the Legacy (or others) will kick in if the car breaks loose, but I suspect you will find that to be a rare situation. I drive in a fairly spirited fashion on icy roads, and the VDC has yet to kick in on my '10 Forester. Granted, I have good tires on it (the OEM tires are not good tires ;) ).

    As britgeezer suggested, you will need to drive them for yourself and run them through the paces. I think you will find the Legacy to be a very stable car. I have not driven a current-gen CR-V or Camry.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The CR-V is more comparable to the Forester, right around the same size, as both are a bit shorter and more upright than the Outback.

    Forester actually beat the CR-V in residual value, and won "Best Compact Utility Vehicle" from Automotive Lease Guide, the company that sets actual residuals for leases. Outback won for "Best Midsize Utility Vehicle" as well.

    Subaru also won "Best Mainstream Brand", though I think Honda wasn't too far behind.

    Link:

    https://www.alg.com/ResidualValueAwards

    My guess is that Legacy information is a bit outdated. In 2009 a lot of used Subarus actually gained value. Here's a funny story to read:

    http://www.automotive.com/auto-news/02/48496/index.html

    Excerpt:

    While the overall market for model-year 2005-2008 used vehicles is down 8.5 percent this year, Subaru has shown the best performance in 2009, increasing 1.3 percent

    LOL WUT?! That's right, used Subarus actually gained value. That's a better investment than my savings account by a factor of 8! :D

    Any how, I wouldn't worry too much, if you prefer the Legacy, by all means buy that.

    As for the "fishtail if throttle is lifted in midturn", aka drop throttle oversteer, this is a matter of Subaru letting its AWD act first, and only after that will it let the stability/traction control kick in and interfere.

    It's a philosophy of AWD coming first. This actually helps in loose surfaces (snow, gravel) where some wheelspin is desired.

    We own a Forester and a Sienna (same powertrian and based on that Camry). When it snows, the Forester hardly notices. The Sienna can barely make it up our driveway. The VSC on that van is so hyper-active that it retards whatever momentum I have and at times the vehicle stops moving forward. Safe? Sure, I guess. Not very practical, though. It actually performs better with the VSC off. That allows someone wheelspin and forward progress.

    On slippery surfaces it is NO contest.

    The Sienna is fine everywhere else, but if it's snowing we take the Forester, without question, there's just no comparison whatsoever.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    The CRV is a decent vehicle, but the design is older, you would get an older-style transmission (Honda has been very slow to get 6-speed auto transmissions or continuously variable ones into their product mix. The CRV competes with the Forester. As such, it has a less luxurious interior than the Legacy and does not deliver nearly as quiet a ride. The Legacy should be considered a step up. The Camry is at the end of its product cycle, whereas the Legacy is brand new, and offers both stability control and AWD standard for the comparable gas mileage of a front wheel drive car like the Camry. The new Legacy is projected to have better resale value than the previous Legacy. But drive them all, and you decide.
  • I had both an 03 Legacy, and an 07. I loved the heaters which warmed up quickly and could really pour it out, but also didn't like that you couldn't direct everything out one port at a time, it always split.
    As for the feet, yes, mine got cold too, and often because the place where it comes out isn't aimed down at the feet, it's more like at the knees. So it wouldn't do a good job of drying carpets which get wet.
    My daughter, who was always in the back seat, complained about not having seat heaters back there, but also that there was no vent the sent heat back there (or air con in the summer). But given the cutbacks that Subaru made with the new OB (since they dropped the legacy wagon, for which I find it very difficult to forgive them! :confuse: :mad: :mad: ) I don't expect we'll see any of that soon.

    My 07 came off lease, and now due to a huge insurance leap, I need to find a cheap reliable car. I'd love to get an older forester or legacy because of the AWD, but the Lemonaid guide gives bad reviews with head gasket problems and says the transmissions don't hold up well after the fifth year, I believe. So because they hold their value, I can't afford one like I just turned in, and I'm nervous about getting an older one.
    I'm not too fond of the CRV, and like you say, the AWD just isn't the same.
    For a real joke, the rental car I have at the moment is a PT Cruiser...no seat heaters and just nowhere near the confidence or stability of driving that one. What a joke that car is.
    cdndriver
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Timely article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/automobiles/autoreviews/24subaru.html?ref=toda- yspaper

    Here's their take on the handling:

    By lifting off the gas pedal in a brisk turn, a driver can make the tail move a bit to the outside, aiming the nose deeper into the turn. Such a tendency is not pronounced enough to be alarming — and enthusiasts will enjoy it.

    It's a positive review overall, no doubt.

    Motor Trend added an Outback to their long-term fleet, and they are getting over 24mpg with it, amazing for a press vehicle (teens are more common with lead-foot editors). Some excerpts:

    it fully acquits itself as our 2010 Sport/Utility of the Year

    I normally hate CVTs, but this one is pleasantly smooth and quiet


    Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_1002_2010_subaru_outback_update_- 1/index.html#ixzz0dpk76ThT

    They also said it didn't scrape bottom in places that even a Highlander did.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "You have to watch that video of the Tribeca and Legacy GT (both with VTD) climing that ramp with traction to a single wheel at a time. "

    tests like that are believable if and only if they are done by an independent party.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't see how they could "cheat", given you see some wheelspin, and then how power transfers to the other side.

    It's not a locker, it's not open, so it has to be the VTD/VDC combination at work.
  • I thought it was quite interesting, also on the hill climb, but there could be ways to stop the rollers spinning, and also when they back up and then try again the momentum could help.
    The hokey narration, hardly unbiased, make me just think, "ok, let me see this from some other independent lab as well. I've seen a test drive on the Volvo site where they drive their suv right up a 35% grade with no problems, strange, it couldn't do it as well in this test....
    There are so many variables that could easily cause that big a difference. Independent testing would make it more believable. I'm not saying that the Subie couldn't do all that, it is a great AWD system, but independent testing would help make it more believable.
    cdndriver
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Perhaps Edmunds could acquire a ramp like that and include a ramp test for every AWD vehicle.

    That would be great.

    Hosts - can you forward that suggestion to the road test team? That would be totally unique, an industry first. Such a ramp can't cost a lot, either.

    I've seen Mercedes and BMW haul them out to events they host.
  • birdboybirdboy Posts: 158
    Can anyone share with me their experience so far with the navigation system both pros and cons. I have never had a built in nav system, only a Garmin portable. I am considering this option. Thanks for any help.
  • jeffm5jeffm5 Posts: 107
    Birdboy, You might want to look at my post #632 on this thread. One correction to that post. I believe the system comes with 3 DVD's, not 4. I still believe that the NAV is not worth the money.
  • 1hhead1hhead Posts: 18
    A mid-level Garmin in less than $200, has almost the feature set of the best car nav systems, you can take it hiking or wherever and you can buy more than 10 of them for the price of the typical Nav setup on the Outback (considering the trim level you have to pay for to get the Nav.) Keep your Garmin in a relatively out of sight spot in your new OB and buy your family 10 really special dinners instead of the Subaru nav unit.

    Over the years, you'll forget the Subaru Nav, but you'll remember those fun family dinners. ;)
  • birdboybirdboy Posts: 158
    Thank you 1hhead. You are probably right. I already have a Garmin widescreen 265T. I travel between NYC and upstate New York. It is just such a chore at times to remember to take the window mount off, take the unit, unplug the bluetooth before leaving the car and setting it all up again. In the city ,you just can not leave anything visable. I thought having this built in and having the sound spoken through the car speakers while the radio fades would be nice, as I often find it hard to hear the nuvi with the music on. I never had a built in Nav. Yes it is quite expensive. I also never had a back up camera either. On my test drive , rear visibility was less than what I thought. More importantly, I am hoping for someone already usuing it to share with me the good and bad.
  • birdboybirdboy Posts: 158
    thank you for the comprehensive set of experiences with the Nav system.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I have the same unit.

    Here's what I recommend: get a vent mount, which brings it closer to your fingers, and helps you see the image better.

    I keep a hat in the car. When I park, I put the hat over the whole thing. You can't really see what's behind it, it just looks like a hat is hanging on one of the buttons on the dash. It doesn't draw any attention (black interior - use a black hat, etc).

    A determined thief will look for the wires, but let's face it, a determined thief will steal the whole car anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here's what mine looks like, it was $10 or so IIRC:

    image

    Don't tell too many people else my secret is out! :D
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,662
    To be honest, I much prefer the window mount that comes with the GPS.

    Why? Because the GPS is in your line of sight. You don't have to take your eyes off the road and look down to find it on the dash vents.

    I always remove the GPS when I park the car, unless I'm parked in a very secure area. If I'm in a questionable area, I'll also remove the mounting fixture and plug.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,662
    Why even do that, when the normal window mount works perfectly, for me at least?

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,451
    I have heard that there are states that prohibit windshield-mounted devices (California?). Plus, with that, you could take the whole unit and put it on the floor, under a seat, etc., without having to disconnect anything... I suspect. :blush:
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,457
    Plus, with that, you could take the whole unit and put it on the floor, under a seat, etc., without having to disconnect anything... I suspect.

    Exactly. Plus, you don't have that dreaded suction cup circle on your windshield. If you pull the window mount, you gotta also "erase" that circle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I've heard that theives know to look for the telltale circle mark left behind when you remove a suction cup mount.

    Wifey uses that and on a *really* hot summer day it will actually fall off.

    I get what Bob is saying about line of sight, but the vent mount makes it much easier to enter addresses, and I listen to the audio instructions most of the time anyway. I only look down if I'm not sure about something.
  • I use the window mount, and so far... knock on wood... no problem with the tell-tale suction cup circle. Here, GPS units are as ubiquitous as cell phones, so thieves don't even bother. I remember just having a hint of a cell phone in the car years ago guaranteed trouble. But, no more.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, now everyone and their mother has a GPS.

    We own three!
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,451
    I have neither GPS nor cell phone, but they are certainly common amongst nearly all others I know. I cannot imagine living in a place where one would need to be earnestly concerned about theft of such devices inside a closed, locked car. It is a sad world in which we live..... :cry:
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,662
    I enter addresses, etc, when the car is not moving. I like being able to see at a glance how far the next turn is, and the other tidbits the Garmin displays; much easier to do so when it's up on the windshield, than down low on the center stack.

    As far as the suction cup ring? It's barely visible on my car. A thief would really have to look hard to see it.

    As I mentioned, I take the Garmin with me when I leave the car, but most of the time I leave the windshield attachment on the window. My thinking is a thief would most likely think, if they see the windshield attachment only, that the driver has removed the GPS from the car; and therefore not bother breaking in.

    Bob
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Dunno about that. I'd say things were much worse 20+ years ago. At the height of the late 1980s crack epidemic, my car was broken into every other week -- or so it seemed at the time. I live in a suburb of NYC, & back then, if you parked your car on a NYC street, you'd hang a "NO RADIO IN CAR" sign in one of the windows. Then you'd walk away, hoping that the local junkies were halfway literate & could puzzle out your message. More often than not, they'd break a window anyway, just to make sure that you weren't lying.

    The last time anyone broke a car window to get at my stuff was in 1989 or 1990 - fully 20 years ago. Maybe I've gotten complacent, but I long ago stopped worrying about that. When I think of it, I put my Garmin on the floor of the car before I leave, but sometimes I don't bother. In any case, nothing happens.

    Perhaps it's because crime in the Northeast has been dropping for the past 15 years - violent crime in NYC is at a 50 year low - or perhaps it's because electronic gadgets have gotten too cheap to steal. I used to spend $500 for a good car stereo back in the mid-1980s, which would be the equivalent of $1200+ today. But my 4-year-old Garmin is worth less than 100 of today's bloodless dollars. So why bother?

    So put me down as someone who thinks that we're much safer today than we were 20 or 30 years ago.
  • I've noticed that on my new 2010 Legacy Limited, with just 1300 miles on it, there is a nearly constant ooze of black oily stuff (bolt grease, I presume) on all 4 wheels in and around the 5 bolts that fasten the very nice rims to the car. I noticed a little of this same seepage on my 2006 Legacy, but on this new car, it is more so and very noticeable. I've wiped away most of it a couple of times with a paper towel, but alas! it returns within a few days. Anyone else experience this? And does anyone know what could be causing this and how it could be eliminated? :confuse: Thanks.
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