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2011 Hyundai Sonata

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    What I said that the base Sonata is about $5k less than the base Azera, and I think that is accurate.

    By your own figures, the difference between a loaded Sonata V6 and Azera is just over $3500. And yes, Hyundai has to offer more features in the Azera to justify the higher price, otherwise there would be no reason at all for the Azera to exist.

    The problem with the Azera is there isn't enough to differentiate it from the Sonata. But with the Sonata limited to only I4s, there is now room for differentiation, at least in the engine bay. The Azera needs a redesign of course, to keep up with the newer Genesis and brand-new Sonata.

    I don't see the Elantra targeting the Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda6 and other true mid-sized cars. The Accord in particular is a full-sized car in interior volume, and is a natural target for the Sonata--as is the Camry, Altima, Mazda6 et. al. The Elantra will continue to go after the Civic, Corolla, Focus, and cars of that size, but with its long-time advantage of more room for the dollar.
  • akumaakuma Posts: 70
    all i'm saying is that the Azera at the moment is just a slightly fancier Sonata (the old one), just slightly. or a Sonata with a few more features and different interior and exterior styling and a couple more cubes of space. there really isn't anything superior about the Azera to the Sonata except for those aforementioned features.

    i don't think that Hyundai is going to make a sedan with only a V6 engine available and no other engine like the Amanti. i think the V6 is only going to be used in the Genesis and some of the CUVs (Veracruz, Santa Fe), and even then it might be replaced in the next generation. Hyundai has to get to 35.5 MPG by 2016. if Hyundai can reduce weight, improve performance and fuel economy while saving money by implementing 4-cylinder turbos, and make these engines very refined, i think the V6 will no longer be used by Hyundai. the Tau V8 (supercharged in some applications) with all the money invested in it, will probably only be used as a halo engine. i'm almost certain the Genesis Coupe is going to ditch the V6 and use a more powerful GDI 4 cylinder turbo instead.

    i don't really expect the Elantra to compete against the major mid-sizers. it's just when the Genesis sedan was engineered, they benchmarked the BMW 5-Series, Infiniti M, Lexus GS, and Mercedes E-Class. that was their "target" set according to Krafcik. their actual competitive set was Cadillac CTS, Chrysler 300M, ES350 and Pontiac G8.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjia6K0Rnqg
    this is explained at about 4:00 into the half hour video.

    the Genesis coupe was also benchmarked against the G37 coupe despite competing against the Eclipse and Mustang and later the Camaro.

    the new Elantra will almost certainly have a version of the same GDI engine and in-house 6-speed transmission as the Sonata, and have a midsize interior like the current one (97.9 cubic feet, 112.1 total volume; for reference, the Acura RL has 99.1 cubic feet and 112.2 total volume). the interior will be upgraded as well as the technology, not unlike the new Tucson. it will also be priced thousands of dollars cheaper comparably equipped if not better equipped than the current Civic and Corolla with class leading fuel economy. i wouldn't be surprised if the base 4 cylinder versions of the Accord, Camry and Altima were compared or cross-shopped with the fully loaded versions of the new Elantra. the new Elantra will probably be a better car by most metrics (performance, features, fuel economy, engine/tranny refinement, suspension, design) than the current Sonata (4 cylinder) except for interior and cargo volume. it will just have the exterior dimensions and weight comparable to a Civic or Corolla.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    I think the days of the Sonata being priced thousands less than the Camry, or the Elantra priced thousands less than the Corolla, are gone, especially when the next-gen Sonata and Elantra debut. Already for 2010, the Sonata and Elantra are priced very close to comparable Toyotas; compare, for example, a 2010 Elantra with ESC and alloys to the Corolla with ESC and alloys--the Corolla actually costs less, in terms of invoice less rebates! So get ready for a small price advantage at best, but getting a superior car in terms of power, fuel economy, interior room, and standard features.
  • akumaakuma Posts: 70
    that's why i think Hyundai might be doing their advanced benchmarking. when compared to their competitive classes, Hyundai cars aren't so cheap anymore. but when they are compared to one class above (and i think they can compare quite well actually) then they start really looking like good values again. also, other carmakers are being more aggressive with their pricing. the new Tucson looks like it compares well to CR-V and Rav 4, but i think it can be compared to the Mazda CX-7 and even the Acura RDX and Infiniti EX. i'm sure the guys at Acura and Infiniti absolutely hate being compared to Hyundai. the Tucson will need to get the GDI engine and/or turbocharged one to be truly competitive with the premium small crossovers, though.

    well it looks like Hyundai is going to replace the Azera afterall. according to comments at hyundai-blog, it's already going through wind-tunnel testing (Hyundai sure does keep their future cars under very secret wraps) and is supposed going to be available with a GDI 4.0 V6 (which may or may not also go in the Sonata) that might make 32 MPG and possible AWD. that's news to me. if they improve the Azera as much if not more so than they did with the Sonata, they're going to have to be careful in differentiating it from the Genesis besides RWD, since the Genesis is still a long way away from redesign.

    maybe they're going to turn the Azera into a huge full-sized car like the Crown Vic or Park Avenue or turn it into a Lincoln killer or a poor man's BMW 7 series (but with front wheel drive). maybe they're just going to make different flavors for very similar cars to get as many buyers as they can. they'll just have to do a better job than GM did with that.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    I thought the Genesis was supposed to be a "poor man's 7 Series"? ;)
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    i hope for hyundai's sake that they have solved the suspension (thunk) issues that have plagued pryor years models sonatas.i currently have a 08 sonata with this thunk issue as does many other sonata owners on this forum.
  • I am an Azera owner and the 2011 Sonata is making my mouth water, i'm excited to see it in person, I may just have to trade down.
  • I am an Azera owner and the 2011 Sonata is making my mouth water, i'm excited to see it in person, I may just have to trade down.

    I still haven't seen one in person. I'm going to take my Sonata to my dealer for an oil change at some point this week, and I'm really hoping they have one in the showroom.

    If they do, I'll snap a few pics and post them here.
  • craigmricraigmri Posts: 243
    My dealer is saying the 2011 Sonata will be in the showrooms around the Superbowl. I cannot wait....I've decided we will either trade our Azera or veracruz in on a loaded Sonata...If they drive as good as they look they'll have a huge hit on their hands!

    Craig
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    i wouldn't count on the 2011 sonata being in the dealers showrooms in january when on almost every car site includeing hyundai's own site that says that the 2011 sonata will not be available till spring 2010....yes, the sonata does look real nice and does come with lots of standard features but don't judge a book by it's cover till it's been test driven.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    Quote from Hyundai's press release from the LA Auto Show, where the 2011 Sonata was unveiled in the US:

    Production begins at Hyundai Motor Manufacturing Alabama in December with retail sales beginning in January

    So it could be in some dealerships by Super Bowl time.
  • Go to the Hyundai website and check the specs on the 2011 Sonata, It has approx. 3 inches less back set leg room than the current model. Just like Nissan did with the Altima when it redesigned in 2007, greatly reducing back set room, especially leg room. It seems like all the re-designs (the new Ford Taurus being another example) are making backsets that are not functional for adults. I would really like to find a reliable true family car with good mileage that had a back set for adults, rather than ones that will not fit any male members of my family except for my 1 year old grandson.
  • craigmricraigmri Posts: 243
    Dconner, What your missing is the fact that the rear leg-room spec is in fact smaller than the current generation however the front legroom spec is greater by a similar amount. Nothing more than front seat adjustability then correct?

    Craig
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,621
    Interesting. I think craig is probably right--if you just scoot up your front seat a little, you'll probably get about as much legroom in back as the current Sonata--in other words quite good.

    I think the 2011 Sonata looks great. I hope they've sharped up the handing to match up with the sleek styling. The handling on the current generation is generally considered below Accord, Altima, Mazda 6, etc. Still a good ride, but generally on the comfy squishy side rather than sporty. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I'm one of the ones who prefers a slightly sporty ride. Not too harsh, mind you, just a balance of sport and comfort.

    For the earlier person looking for a good back seat in a family sedan, I recommend the Honda Accord. I believe it has perhaps the biggest back seat in its segment. If you skip the sunroof, and get an LX or LXP model, the headroom is quite generous. I have an Accord EXL, which has the sunroof, but even with that headroom in back is quite good--adult sized. And in any case, legroom is quite good on the Accord.

    The new Sonata looks to be just about as big as the Accord in the cabin--and the new Sonata has a significantly bigger trunk than the Accord. The Accord's trunk is c. 14 cu ft, while the 2011 Sonata is 16.
  • I don't know if your in the market for a new car now but the 2009/2010
    Sonata would be a good choice "IMO". It is rated as a large car w/ room
    for 5 adults "I have no trouble doing that in ours". The 09 & 10 are exactly
    the same, and I would say pretty soon they will try to push them out the
    door to make room f/ 2011. My idea is, we already know what the track
    record is on the 09/2010, but it remains to be seen about the 2011. The
    car I have is the 2009SE w/ V6 "not knocking the I4" another fine Hyundai
    product" my preference was the V6. and I think a fine good looking car
    and one of the best ride and handling cars I've ever had, besides having
    good HP if needed and probably close to the best MPG in the V6 midsize
    class. It's all "IMO" thing.

    I forgot to say I think the 2011 may be one of the prettiest cars I've seen in
    many years "a real head turner IMO". It may send most of the midsize car
    makers back to the drawing board! I will be one of the first to go see it in
    person, I hate to think of getting rid of my 2009 !!!! HA HA
  • My guess is that the Azera will eventually no longer be made in a couple of years.
  • I'll have to agree with you on that, Azera is a very nice car I glanced over it,
    but the Sonata SE has exactly what I wanted. It seems like Hyundai themselfs
    squeezed it out, not much room left between the Sonata and the Genesis. I'm
    not to crazy about the 2011 Sonata getting smaller, not much smaller but it
    is.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,621
    I'm not sure, but I think maybe the 2011 Sonata loses about an inch of rear headroom compared to the current model. Otherwise I think it's pretty close to the same...
  • Just a few dimensions they may interest someone.

    2009 Accord sedan (in the rear) shoulder 56.4"/ head 38.5"/ hip 54.3/ leg 37.2
    2009 Sonata " " shoulder 56.9"/ head 38.2"/ hip 55.5/ leg 43.7
    2011 Sonata " " shoulder 56.7"/ head 37.8"/ hip 54.9/ leg 34.6

    Another observation; EPA class size rating

    Accord total interior volume 115 cu ft EPA large
    Camry " " " 116.4 cu ft EPA midsize
    Altima " " " 116 cu ft EPA midsize
    Mazda6 " " " 118.9 cu ft EPA midsize
    Malibu " " " 112.8 cu ft EPA midsize
    Fusion " " " 116.2 cu ft EPA midsize
    Sonata " " " 121.8 cu ft EPA large
    2011 Sonata " " 120.2 cu ft EPA ?????
    Avalon " " " 120.9 cu ft EPA large
    Aura " " " 113 cu ft EPA midsize
    Acura TL " " " 111.3 cu ft EPA midsize
    Infiniti G37 " " 99.0 cu ft EPA compact
    Audi A4 " " 107.0 cu ft EPA compact
    Lexus ES350 " " 110.1 cu ft EPA compact
    Is there anything strange about those ratings? Accord has a smaller I.V. than
    the Camry, Altima, Mazda6, & Fusion, how is it rated large?
    Only goes to show EPA has faults about ratings.

    This has nothing to do with knocking any above mentioned car, I would love to
    have them all, just a hobby.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    Not sure where you are getting this info, but the Accord's total interior volume is 120 cubic feet, w/o moonroof (LX/LX-P), hence it's just over the "large car" line... as is the 2011 Sonata at 120.2.

    Also, your figures for the 2009 vs. 2011 Sonata look suspect--I doubt there's a 9 inch difference in legroom. Are you sure you aren't comparing the front leg room in the 2009 with the rear leg room of the 2011?
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