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2000 Integra Type R vs. 2000 Celica GTS

yellowsnowyellowsnow Posts: 5
edited March 5 in Toyota
I am looking to buy a new car. I REALLY like the
new celica gts, but I also love the type r. I know
acura didn't produce the type r in 1999, but as I
have heard, they will bring it back in 2000. can
anyone tell me if, indeed, there will be any type
r's for 2000, and if so which car would be better
to buy? thanks for any responses.
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Comments

  • I'd go for the celica. True, the type R has more HP but it extracts its performance at the sake of day to day drive-abillity. I have 2 celicas ('88 Alltrac Turbo and 91 GT) so I'm a bit biased.
  • have you driven either of the 2000 models? I've heard both have phenominal handling for front drivers, and both have 0-60 times of 6.6 seconds. the celica is also similarly priced (when loaded) to the type r. this decision is a hard one, because I am in school right now and I don't have time to test drive either.
  • I'd say go with the Integra GS-R, if you like
    Type R. Spend $1000 on GS-R handling, and apart
    from top end punch, it'll be as good as Type R,
    plus you save a few grand. Celica GT-S is quite
    comparable, and a good bit safer too. Only, I have
    a problem with buying a brand new car while the
    TSBs (www.alldata.com) are still being worked out
    in the first 12-18 months of its sales.
  • im not trying to offend anyone who owns a celica but the Celica is not even on the same level as the ITR. the type R will be faster, handle soooo well (my friend has a 98 type R) and yes, perhaps more reliable, like rms-600 said.
    the ITR was build for the track, the GTS is a fast car but more for the road. its just depends what your looking for in your car. if you are performance oriented, the ITR is with out a DOUBT the choice.
  • New test on the 2000 models of both of these cars are in the December Car & Driver: Performance is very similar, except the Celica handles much better. This year it sounds like the Celica is more of a sports car and the GS-R more of a "daily driver's" sports car.
  • The topic is a comparison of GTS vs Type R, not GSR. Like eric22... said the Type R is superior to the GTS and GSR in every way except comfort. I should now, I own one(Type R) and my brother owns a GSR. Also the reason the Celica was better handling in the Car & Driver is because of better tires, but I concede that it has better brakes than GSR.
  • I thought your dream car is a Chevy Z28..what happened? I hope you realized that [non-permissible content removed] cars are just better than American cars.
  • I know it's sad that dealers mark the ITR so high.
    You should try calling all the dealers in your area, and place an order with the one that will let you pay sticker.
    I placed my order 4 months before they arrived to get my '98 ITR and paid sticker with floormats for free. By the way, some people will argue that the car is worth that much, since you're getting the best handling FWD car ever made!
  • Thanks for the clarification. Still, from reading C & D it is more than tires that make for the GT-S handling. How is the stock Type R on the skid pad & does it ride like a go-cart as well?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    robert41:
    Never driven one, but from all the magazine reviews I've read (Europe and here, fyi, Integra is sold as only as Type-R in Europe), ITR has been heralded as the best FWD handler, and IT IS a sports car. If skidpads interest you, I've seen 0.88g-0.92g on ITR test results. and slalom (ofcourse depends on whether 600 or 700 feet), of over 68 mph, braking is also its strong point (huge discs), 60-0 is usually in the 120 ft range.
    BTW, just read an SCCA article (C&D online). ITR has been dominating the touring class in recent years, and even on drag races, it has disappointed I-6 bimmer drivers!
  • Depending on tires the Type R easily exceeds .90 g in skidpad. The ride is not truck like, more like a BMW M3, you feel every irregularity on the road.
    I guess you have to drive one but none of the Type R owners that have posted on the web had complaints about the ride.
    Speaking of tires (GTS vs GS-R), I used Dunlop D40M2 205/50/15's on my last car, Integra LS, and the handling improved dramatically. So, tires make a big difference.
  • myitrmyitr Posts: 1
    for under $30k, this is the best sports car you can buy ( I mean sports car and NOT "sporty car". Celica GTS is a sporty car and not sports car. I drove home my 2000-ITR 3 weeks ago a Phoenix yellow. I bought mine with having test driven it because no dealers in the San Francisco Bay area would allow it. I did my research in the internet about ITR reviews and the reviews were all 110% recommended. GO FOR THE ITR and you'll exhillarate driving this "NSX, jr" . I did!
  • Huh??? what are you talking about? The GTS is just as much of a sports car as an ITR with the numbers to prove it. The only reason they were considered a sporty car in the US is because we couldn't get Toyota to bring over the monster GT4 model that are still made today! And that spanked any Integra. But now that the new GTS is here, the story changes and leaves the GSR in the dust and taps the side of the ITR looking for the passing zone!!! All that for less money to boot! I know its hard to swallow, but the guard has just changed!
  • I don't know where you are getting your information from but it seems like you are stretching the truth quite a bit. I have a friend at work with a Type-R and its no 14 second car. 15.1 is the best it gets (with the OBD I computer) OBD II computers in the 2000 ITR make the car go even slower!! Type R can't reach a sub 14 second pass at any 1/4 mile without mods. The quarter mile times for the GTS are 15.1 . 0-60 is at 6.6 sec which happens to be the same as the Type R's. And it just happens to have almost the identical power:wieght ratio as the Type R!!!! Dam even with tighter gearing than the Type R's also! maybe thats why it only goes to 130. And remember thats is computer limited to 130. With 6 speeds in the tranny it probably could out run the ITR also by taking out the limiter!
    I saw many GS-Rs run high 14's with exhaust, intake, ingnition, plugs, wires, and the interior riped out. And I am not sure but I was told on another message board that the skid pad tests were .89-.91 right on with the Type-R's. Sounds very comparable! The Celica has always been a top handler ask any one that knows there stuff. But you gotta expect a .86 skidpad with a shorter wheelbase and heavier car on the 94-99 celicas. So naturally you drop 200 lbs. And lenghten the wheelbase, and some sticker stock rubber your gonna have a hell of a skidpad rating compared to the old one.
    So you better check your sheets before you try to pull one over on me! I do my homework! And I doubt very seriously if the GSR beats the Celica in 5-60 or 30-70 if its 0-60 time is 7.2 to the Celica's 6.6. Thats a big difference!
  • I Would like to add that all most all of the tests that you find for the 2000 Celica were on prototype cars and were tested a bit before they came to the states and almost all didn't have the finalized computers in them. And alot of them said that the cars that were shipped over here were brought before that computer maps were completely tuned. If you go to the car and driver online the Celica got 0-60 at 7.5 seconds because their car was one of the first prototypes over hear. But the confirmed reports that myself and my car club have seen on post production cars were 6.6 or 6.7 which will vary on who tests it, conditions etc. They did say that the suspesion in the vehicles were phonominal! with anitrollbars in the front and the back that would make Rod Millen proud! I have looked at all the numbers and it appears that it was made to excell past the GSR and butt heads with the ITR. And thats a fact. I know its hard to swallow because the ITR has had two production runs over hear in the states with alot of faithful followers that all seem to think that there is nothing that can touch it! It was that way in 98 when there wasn't anything that rivaled its performance for the price. but that has now changed. I am not saying that the 2000 Celica GTS is better. No, I say that the numbers are equal in alot of the IMPORTANT catagories. And that they are neck and neck when it comes to the finish line. But Dollar for dollar the Celica comes in first hands down. And I would be glad to race you to the bank to prove it! That is if you even have a Type R.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,137
    You guys are funny. Racinjason says some people in another forum told me the GT-s does .89-.91g in the skidpad? What is that? Show me a roadtest by any car magazine that got .90 or better.
    I mentioned all the car magazines that I got my info from and used it as a reference point.
    Motortrend got 14.8s in the 1/4 with the Type-R.
    (you can also look at Honda's drag race avi videos in www.vtec.net and you 'll see 14.7s)
    Again, I 've never seen any sub 15s #s on the Celica for the 1/4 mi. I haven't even seen a 15 flat or 15.1 or anything close to 15s. So the Celica loses the 1/4 mi. test.
    2nd: The Celica loses in the skidpad test and the slalom tests. Look them up in C&D, M/T and SCC.
    0-60 - Let's say they 're even..

    You people are forgetting one very important thing. The Type-R comes with 15" wheels and 195-55 size tires!!! and it still kicks the Celica's butt in skidpad & slalom. If you put the Celica's 16" wheels & 225-50 (or 205-50?) tires on a Type-R, imagine how much better the ITR will be!
    The 2 cars are definitely not the same. One is better than the other and that happens to be the ITR.
    My brother owns a '98 Type-R and I 'll race you anytime, stock to stock. Hek, I 'll race you with my GSR after I put the 22mm rear sway bar on.
    With bigger antiroll bars and 16" wheels, Sport Compact car got .91g with a GSR.

    Anyway, with the 2001 Integras around the corner, I don't think we 'll see another topic like this for a long time starting around next September..
  • just to let you know, I like both cars.. I own a 2000 GR-S in absolutely Red.. Nice car with every options except ABS and Alarm.. bought it for 21,000.. thats 8000 less than what some of these Type R's are stickering for.. and also after having the car for a whole 3 weeks I have already raced a Type R.. I missed was on his a** all the way up will 6800 RPM in 2nd gear where I hit my Rev limiter.. Oh and to let ya know.. When the car is cold it doesnt accelerate like it would when its warm.. The Rev Limiter will only engage when the engine is cold.. So in other words if my engine had not been cold when I raced that Type R I would have won that race.. Im not crapping out the Type R though, I like the car, but the Celica is every bit a sports car along with the Type R.. And I will race one anyday knowing its gonna be a good race.. They are almost an equal match.. But for the $$ Id take my car..

    Larry D
    00 GTS
  • I said I own a 2000 GR-S, I meant I own a
    2000 Celica GT-S, sorry about that..

    Larry Dougherty
  • just to let you know, I like both cars.. I own a 2000 GR-S in absolutely Red.. Nice car with every options except ABS and Alarm.. bought it for 21,000.. thats 8000 less than what some of these Type R's are stickering for.. and also after having the car for a whole 3 weeks I have already raced a Type R.. I missed was on his a** all the way up will 6800 RPM in 2nd gear where I hit my Rev limiter.. Oh and to let ya know.. When the car is cold it doesnt accelerate like it would when its warm.. The Rev Limiter will only engage when the engine is cold.. So in other words if my engine had not been cold when I raced that Type R I would have won that race.. Im not crapping out the Type R though, I like the car, but the Celica is every bit a sports car along with the Type R.. And I will race one anyday knowing its gonna be a good race.. They are almost an equal match.. But for the $$ Id take my car..

    Larry D
    00 GTS
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,137
    go to www.honda-acura.net forum and put up a post asking stock Type-R onwers to tell you their best 1/4 mi. times at the strip.
    Count how many 14.7xx & 14.8xx answers you get and then come back to tell us. I think a few months ago when a guy posted that question, the slowest one was like 14.9s and they all have the time slips to prove it. Most of them even gave you their response times, 60ft, 300ft times etc.

    A Celica GT-S owner in the Edmunds sports car topic a month or more ago said that he got a 14.98s best run with the seats taken out, spare tire out, etc. timing modifications, a home made cold air intake and slicks. That's not what I call stock. What was interesting is that he first started out stock at 15.6s (like C&D's 1/4) and then described the results of every run which got better with each modification (or reduction in weight). There were a couple of other mods which I can't remember either.
    Also a Type-R with A/C weighs exactly 2600lbs.
    A Celica 5sp w/sunroof (because almost all GT-Ss come with one), 16" wheels, ABS & spoiler weighs very close to that. So I really don't see the weight advantage.
    If someone is getting 15.1s with their ITR it's probably because their not a very good driver.
    I still can't find any road tests of the Celica even matching a 15.1s best run.. which would be an ITR's slowest run with an average driver.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,137
    What you raced was an Integra GSR and not a Type-R
    If it was a Type-R, the guy was not racing.
    Sounds like you only raced up to about 45-50mph or so anyway. If you gave up the race at 6800rpm in 2nd gear, that means you didn't even reach the National speed limit. Do you actually call that a race? LOL I can see maybe a minimum of 60-70mph but 50? give me a break! and how come you said you would 've won the race when you were behind him? how do you know?
    So I assume this race did not start at the light side by side with both of you stopped? Sounds like you don't have too much experience racing or are not too clear of the definition of racing.
    Let me give you an example: I own a '99 GSR and have raced against my brother's '98 Type-R numerous times (and I always lose). One that comes to mind is when we were at the light around 11pm at night side by side.. Light turns green I launched first and had the best launch of my life (My brother was talking to me from his car and didn't see the light turn green in time..) At 40-50 I was 2 car lengths ahead of the ITR. By 60-70mph he was next to me and by 90mph (1/4 mi.speed) he was at least 4 car lengths ahead of me and pulling away. Now that's a race.
    The Type-R's 3d gear has tremendous power and its 4th gear is like the GSR's 3d. In this particular race I launched about a 1sec. sooner than the ITR did, and still ended up seeing his tail lights starting at about 70mph.
    The GSR is a 7.1-2s 0-60 car and 15.6s 1/4 mi. and still got killed by the ITR with a 1 second head start..
    2 questions Larry: Do you have an auto GT-S or 6sp? what color was the Type-R?
  • I can't wait to see what the GT-S can do in a racing environment. I'm really looking forward to seeing the GT-S compete against my '98 ITR at my local autocross events (that's assuming any GT-S owners dare race- the only Celica I've seen in the past two seasons is a '97 ST!). May the best car/driver win...You guys can talk all you want until then.
    By the way, for those that don't know, the ITR won again this year in the GT touring class against BMW's 328, Miatas etc.
  • Sorry, the class that the ITR dominates is the Touring class. The GT class is higher hp like NSX, Viper, Corvette, Saleen Mustang, Supra etc.
    The Touring class is BMW 328, Ford Contour SVT, Mercedes 280 and other 6 cyl cars.
  • Ok Harry Read up on your Motortrend! Quotes Quotes Quotes, what are you a walking encyclopedia? That will give you all you need to know about the Celica! And yes it got a .89 on the skidpad! With Rubber that is supposed to last 4 times that of what is stock on the ITR. Give me the same set of rubbers on my GTS and I will show you a .91g. And besides when was the last time your brother got a .92g And would you quit it with the "Prototype" figures that C/D had a while back, they are bogus numbers. But that seems to be the only way you can support your claims! I just got back home from roasting, Count'em, 5 different GSR's tonight! All with the usual mods and it wasn't even a race. And I might add with room to spare. Not to mention a 5.0 Mustang GT with probably the ussual hick parts added, He was Highly pissed at me! This is no joke! If you live in my town you would understand. There are more Stangs and and GSR's than people and one or two ITRs in the mix. And my wife was along for the ride yet. I would race my buddy at work now with no problem if he hadn't added the total exhaust system, clutch, intake and who knows what else! But he will have to wait for my intake and exhaust to get here. Then I will even it up a good bit. So in short. The ITR is still not a 14 sec. car, as I know the owner that tryed his hardest to get there but was only able to muster a 15.1 totally stock. You might have had your occasional 14.925 stats buy some guys with about 21lbs of air in the front and dumped a bottle of 116 in the tank, and a 116 lb driver! The best GSR time I saw with exhaust and intake, and full trim was 15.6. And I am totally possitive that the extra couple ponies that the ITR would have over the GSR mentioned in the prior statment would be able to muster a 14!! Thats obsurd. But Lets get real. Its not going to happen at the street lights in my town or yours. But after ripping quite a few notables in town a new poopshoot tonight! Quite easily! I am ready for your ITR anyday! With the same HP/LB ratio and the same amount of torque pushing fewer mass I don't see a problem!
  • Sorry I am horrible at typing! But What I ment to say is the ITR wouldn't be able to get a 14.anything if a modified GSR can only reach 15.6. But do you know a 15.1 compared to a 14.9?? isn't even a car lenth on the strip!!! So even if your claims are true! It don't mean much to me. I would have still put my money down on the car that costs at least 5G's less and can be compared almost exactly. That hurts in itself. And its a mass produced car at that. Better hope those rumors aren't true about the 2.0 liter VVTL-i being designed now! Pushing 230 ponies at least. Then the entire Acura Integra line would be a bunch of has beens! But Thats quite alright! I think the 1.8 GTS is still able to take the best ITR can throw at it! And I will be having a very merry Christmas this year with the extra 5 Gs left still in my pocket! And to close, all 5 GSR's and the 5.0 were taken at stoplights in front of parkinglots full of 4cyl., 6cyl, and 8cyl. gearheads alike. Who needs time slips!?! When you got a crowd watching the madness!
  • only1harry,

    I guess I should have clarified it.. First off my car is a 6speed GTS, the Type R was white.. I was leaving work sitting at a light behind a Type R, NOT GSR, we had toyed with each other up to the light but nothing big.. The light turned green. We both took off, he got a large jump on me because I do not drive 6 speed.. This is my first manual car.. Anyhow.. I get the car going
    and run 1st gear and then 2nd gear up to 63 mph, thanks.. not 50.. anyhow.. The limiter kicked in and he turned at the next light.. so that was the end of that.. I do know what a race is, I do it all the time.. But this time i was toying around with another car.. just letting you know that the Type R will not walk away from my car like you think it would.. I was not cutting down at all on the Type R, I like them myself, but the GTS does deserve its repsect in that it can/will run side by side with a Type R.. One day I will find another one and we will do the real thing.. none of this light to light bs where Im behind him.. Another thing you need to realize.. The GT-S best time to date according to MT i believe was 15.2 in the 1/4.. This was on a brand new non broken in Celica, give it a couple thousand miles and it will be breaking the 15's in 14.9 etc.. Stock.. And my car will not be stock long anyhow..

    Larry D
    larrydougherty@yahoo.com
  • ok I figure Im gonna give this a run, I am a webmaster and I decided to write a web page for the 2000 Celica.. The page was written for 1024x768 screen resolution so if it looks funny in 800x600 you will know why..

    you can get there by clicking on this link

    http://www.7thvision.com/celica/

    the page so far has reviews, forums, classifieds,
    and specs.. Im working on an owners database.. I figure Ill give it a trial run and see how it works our though before I switch over the domain..

    If you have any comments please send me email to
    larrydougherty@yahoo.com

    Larry Dougherty
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,137
    Find a June '97 R&T issue and look for the Type-R
    road test. 0-60 in 6.2s!!!!! 1/4 mi. 14.8s.
    Beat those #s.
    Enough said about that.

    As far as Mustang GTs, I 've pulled on pre-98 models too with my '99 GSR. The Type-R would destroy them.
    The GSR with exhaust and cold air intake does the 1/4 in an average of 15.2s Everybody knows that.
    15.6s is what the car does stock with no mods and that number has been consistent for years and recorded by all the big magazines year after year.
    Look at the recent R&T comparison test in the Oct.
    issue of '00 GT-S, '00 Eclipse & '99 Integra.
    GSR - 15.6 again. GT-S = 15.4

    What I like is that the GT-S did 0-60 in 6.8s and the GSR in 7.2s. That's a .4s difference.
    The 1/4 mi. difference was only .2s which means the GSR started catching up to the Celica, he he

    Anyway, you wanted to use the fastest times recorded, so you forced me to give you the 6.2s 0-60 test from R&T. I didn't really want to earlier but now I think is a good time :-)
    And why is the GT-S $5K cheaper than the Type-R. '00 Type-R (with A/C) is $24.8K. The sticker on a stripped GT-S without ABS & spoiler (should be comparably equiped to compare prices) is $21.6K I think you need to brush up on your math..
  • Ummmm yeah um stock GSR runs 15.6 with a lightwieght pro behind the wheel! On a Hell of a good day! There is no car in the world that you add 25 horses (ITR over GSR) to and get another .7-.8 secs(14.7-14.8 or even 14.9) in quarter mile times without tweaking! Hell if thats the case You could get the ITR in the 13s with another 25-30 horses RIGHT!?!?! LOL That is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard!!! You gotta be joking dude! I am sure there are plenty of ITRs running high 14s stock with slicks and a higher octane gas, some ignition tweating! Maybe just gutting the interior. But out of the showroom you are total BS! I just got done talking with the friend at work with the 98 ITR and he said himself you are talking total dookie! He said himself that he has seen on a VTEC message board that a guy once got like a high 14.9?? with 116 in it totally showroom stock. And said most of the mags quoted the 98 ITR as a 15.2 car bro! And most of the owners say they can Run around 15.1. Thats what he told me. he should know he has one! Why would he down play his car??? I don't know, I never checked out ITR info that much before now. But as I find out more and more from Mark(my buddy at work), your nose is growing longer and longer. And he said himself after going for a ride in it today that it handles amost exactly like ITR except it rolls a little more, which is good b/c of some car positioning in the turns thing or something(Read the SCC artical on the new GTS). honestly I would rather have less roll like the ITR. But if the skidpad is that good maybe its not a bad thing.
    So actually The 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times are all but identical!!!!! No 14sec laps that you are talking about. Actually according to Mark the 2000 ITRs are slower (about 15.2-15.3)due to the OBDII emissions computers in them and the standard AC thats installed that added a good bit of weight! So if you wanted to get nitty gritty the 2000 GTS 1/4 times and 0-60 are faster than a 2000 ITR!!! The average skidpad test for the ITR is .91g according to Mark. And some rarely get a .92g depending where the test was held, conditions, car, etc etc. But .91 is still the Best for any front driver! That the ITR is rated a .1 or .2 higher than the GTS. The GTS has hit .90g but most read out .89 as being the norm. So I will say it is a .1 - .2g advantage for the ITR depending on the year 98 or 00 with 00 being heavier and less cablable of holding g's!!! VERY VERY COMPARABLE!!! Trust me you wouldn't notice the difference in just .1 or .2g's.
    Both are very nice cars I enjoy watching Marks ITR move but other than the small visual cues its just another Integra ( one of the hundreds that must be in town!!). But I am sure it will be that way with the 2000 Celicas also! SUCKS! They are freaking selling like hotcakes on a Sunday morning. The dealership hasn't had a single car on the lot for over 36 hours they said unless it was over a Sunday. I had mine on order for 1 1/2 months before it came in. The average GTS they get on the lot is there for 6 hours!!!!!!! Mine sat at the dealership for 3 1/2 hours to get detailed before i took it!!! But anyway the last but most important factor is the price for the car itself! I got mine for 21,500 with 2,500 down so the total came to 24000 with taxs, title, tags. S-T-E-A-L!!!!! Mark got his 98 ITR for a whopping 29,000 with the taxes, title and tags!!! hmmmmmm I don't think anyone will go for that unless they didn't know about the celicas. Edmunds shows the total price to be close to 25,000 but the honda/acura dealers always mark it up b/c of the mimited amount. And why pay for a GSR when you can have a GTS for the same price. That is capable of ITR numbers out of the box!!!! Its thats simple! So I think my job here is pretty much done. Time to go out and roach some nay-sayers!!!
  • Quotes from various mags for yah Harold!
    Motor Trend: "The payoff? Our six-speed GT-S ran 0-60 mph in 6.6 seconds and did the quarter mile in 15.2 ticks at 93.0 mph."

    R/T: Once the tachometer needle sweeps past the 6000-rpm mark — precisely when VVTi-L kicks in — the sporty Toyota surges forward, pressing your upper torso into the bucket-type seat. The 7800-rpm redline comes in a flash, signaling you to slide the shifter into the next gear. Toyota claims that the Celica GT-S will run to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds.

    hmmmm sounds very good! LOL Just got an email from a friend that used to own a GSR, and he told me that most Integra Type-R ("Real Slow) what he called them don't come down to play!
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