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Porsche Cayenne vs. Acura MDX vs. BMW X5

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Comments

  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Not sure what you are going on about but excuse my ignorance, I will not use your experience as a basis for an argument of whether BMW is reliable or not. I will use consumerreports.org. Per their 2009 study here is how it all works out:
    5: Acura (The 2nd highest ranked Luxury make
    7: Lexus
    8: Hyundai
    9: Porsche (This means its still reliable as it is in the top ten)
    26: BMW
    27: Mini (In other words BMW)
    28: GMC
    29: Saturn
    30: Jeep
    31: Dodge
    32: Cadillac
    33: Chrysler

    Now call that what you like, all I am saying is I work hard for my pennies and given an option of flirting with the bottom ten or the top ten in reliability I choose the top ten. Unfortunately as I said earlier the Porsche is a great car and I will go with the MDX as its cheaper. Do I think I am getting more for my money than the Porsche, NO. Porsche makes great cars and fun to drive but at this stage in my life I have to be rational and choose the MDX. Ultimately though, when Porsche brings its all to the Cayenne, the MDX will not stand a chance.

    Yes the study is of the 2007 models, but for now that is all we have. Everything else you said is just speculation and we can live it at that. ;)
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    Ok, so agreed MDX is the intelligent choice, except...booooring, and it's GVWR is just under the 6K necessary for the business deduction. So, I have narrowed it down to a '09 cayenne gts, with a stick, well equipped and heavily discounted about 17% off sticker, and an '09 X5 loaded with M-Sport package(everything but M engine), etc. I can get is for about 15% off sticker, add the free maintenance and they are comparable deals.

    Overall the gts would cost a little more, but it has the stick,(which I love, and wife doesn't prefer), more power and as previously mentioned, better reliability. Also has the hard-drive based nav. My wife has a loaded '04 Sienna with 100K, which she claims she'll keep for another 100K, except my third car is a '01bmw M3 conv, stick. So, when I'm driving it 8 or so months a year, she'll be driving the newer suv. She'd prefer the automatic on the X5. Again, similar deals, the bimmer around $5K less overall or so.

    Also, I have a 15 year old son who will be driving soon, so he'll start with the van, and we'll see after that. The rest of the picture is that I currently drive a audi A6Q, 2.7T, with a stick, and 127K on it, love it but needs cats for $2-3K. Funny, I used to drive the M3 less, but as the audi aged I've changed and drive it more. Have a feeling that when kid is driving, I'll be driving it 'full-time'., although tempted to fix audi for him, know the history, teach him to drive a stick, and still short $4 between repairs ($3k) and current value($2K) total $5Kish.

    Have followed both vehicles for a couple of weeks, and not sure who if and who may get more aggressive as the end of the year approaches, may help push me in a direction.

    Any ideas, suggestions or comment are appreciated. Want to pull this of B4 eoy.
    Happy and healthy to all!!

    Thanks
  • mdxfan3mdxfan3 Posts: 13
    Guys-

    Read the posts and felt my 2 cents might help. I've owned an X5 for 4 years now. Pluses are perfect ride/handling balance, very smooth 6 engine, nice looking even in black. Minuses are: It's shockingly unreliably. No problems with the engine/ drivetrain. But things break all the time. Plus, it's had weird electrical gremlins that two dealers could not solve. Once every 3 months I have to literally shut it down and restart just like my pc (when its hazard lights start flashing and all interior lights come on by themselves). Never been a safety issue yet but very weird.

    Regarding the other bmw owner;s post, here's the difference. The X5 and X3 are the only bmw's made in America. The rest are from Germany. The ones from Germany are far more reliable. That's the difference and it's an important one. Since I only drive this car about 4K mi/yr, I'm only at the dealer about twice a year to get things fixed and that's why I've kept it this long. Coming from an Avalon and two Honda before that, I expected much better. Not the same, but much better. Make no mistake, I love my X5. But it's lack of reliability bothers me such that I'm switching brands.

    Drove an Audi Q5. Perfect car. Not sure it's worth $48K optioned up and it looks a little too cute/precious for my taste as a guy (like a murano). But it's a fantastic, quality car and I might end up buying one. Have not driven the mdx yet despite my screen name. Waited for the 2010s arrival first. New styling leaves me a bit cold but I'm attracted to its mechanical excellence and Car & Driver comparo win. We'll see...

    Four cars I'd also really like to consider are due to be restyled in the next year: BMW 5-series awd, BMW 3-series awd, and Porsche Cayenne. Also, the new BMW X1 looks so much better than the X3 and I hear will be not be made in America but not planning to arrive here until late 2010. (Nothing anti-American. I just won't get burned twice.) Feels like my timing is off with all of these. Since I paid cash for the X5, am planning to hold on to it until something grabs me.

    Sorry this post was a bit long winded but I've been casually looking for about a year now and had quite a few thoughts to share. Hope this helped someone!
  • hey all,...just had to respond to this forum,...my wife has a 2008 cayenne turbo,...yes,...that's right, A TURBO!,...she is a bonifide wild women when it comes to speed,...and wanted the world's fastest suv,...me,...i thought this car was such a ridiculous misstep for porsche when they announced this car,...but, have to say,...she loves the dang thang,...and, having driven it myself,...it's not bad,...very lux and fast,...but still feels awlfully heavy,...we also have a 2008 carrera s coupe manual,...so it doesn't have the feel of that little pistol,...but she's in love with the bohemoth,...gas mileage is laughable! 13 miles per gallon,...but thought i'd add my 2 cents in!
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Hello,

    I have been posting here for sometime now. I've realized no matter how much I like bmws, it has reliability issues, and thats a fact!
    I went to see Infinitis yesterday, and all I can say is, Iam never going back to see an Infiniti again, no matter how much their prices are better or how good they match bmws performance.

    I have looked at all kinds of cars and no other car attracted me like a bmw does.
    As an owner of toyota, I like my car to be very reliable and no problems whatsoever for at least 4years which my current toyota has given me and still running fine.
    If I'll pay the extra $$ for all the luxury goods in a luxury car I expect everything to be working well, I do not want to visit dealers for issues apart from the service.

    Like u, I also looked at the Q5, but it doesn't ring any bells for me, too expensive and just doesn't look special to me. A4 is nice but again, I respect others opinion, but not my thing.

    If ur looking for the new upcoming 5 series, make sure u check about turbo engine issues as there are many in the x6, the original car that I wanted, but a friend of mine at the dealers told me rather buy the non turbo x5! Thats when I started reading more about bmws and found out a lot of other issues about x5s to 5 series to 3 seri to x3s.

    About the bmws made in Germany, some say its built better, some say its the same.

    Regardless of the issues I've mentioned, im still thinking about bmws, but not the new 1s. but the current 5series, does anyone know once the new 5series arrives will there be big discounts for the current 5?
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    So, I've been here before to. I was extremely close to buying an X5 or a cayenne gts(stick), but I've held off as well. Gas mileage and cost mostly the reason. I'm impatiently waiting for the new 5, it sounds incredible!, Presenlty, wife drive limited awd sienna, 04 with 100k, very few probs, wants to keep it another 100K, ha ha. My winter car is an audi 2.7T, sport with a stick has 128K, no major probs, love it, and my toy is a 01 bmw M3 conv, stick with 60K, no major probs either and really love it, so looking for an eventual replacement of the audi,(i have a 15 year old, who may inherit it, if I chose to repair the cats for $3K).

    Anyway, really looking forward to a new car some day, had been close to 20% off on these 09 leftovers, there are definitely some great deals to be had if you are patient and not shy!, look around and look outside your local dealer area.

    ps have a friend with (2) X5s, and a 330conv. one of the X5's had some major electrical issues, that seem to be ok now, but definitely wouldn't want to own one out of warrantee,(even though I do)
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    Could definitely see my wife in an mdx someday, love the new technology and reliability. Could also see myself in a TL,(yes, with a stick). Who knows what the future will bring!!!
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    U finally dropped the idea of the cayenne and x5, have u test driven the cayenne?
    I drove a friends cayenne turbo and it felt very heavy, it felt very fast as expected from a 500hp car, but at the same time, it really felt very heavy compared to the x6 i6 I drove, but the x6 was inline6 compared to the v8.

    Expect to pay a premium for the new 5 series, I personally think the current 1 is very nice.

    Once the new 1 comes out, expect big discounts for the current 1, and I personally think the current 5 has its own personality compared to the new 1 which has a 7 series rear end and 3 series front.
  • mdxfan3mdxfan3 Posts: 13
    bmlexus,

    No, haven't driven a Cayenne yet. Almost did at a dealership a few months back but really just wanted to check it out up close and personal. I liked the looks of it very much. The Cayenne is also set for a major redo at the end of this year for 2011. For this reason, I would likely only lease a Cayenne so I wouldn't take the depreciation hit. Plus, there are factory subsidized lease specials on right now that will likely continue into the summer. Generally, people either buy or lease. But I just run the numbers and it depends on the specific deal. Leasing can be cheaper than buying in some cases like this one--3 yr time frame, low mileage lease, etc.

    I'd say my favorite sub $60K cars are the X5 and 5-series. Both are very fun to drive and nice looking. I don't personally need an SUV but prefer the utility, being up higher for more safety, AWD for the snow, etc. Just wish the X5 was more reliable! I understand from my dealer that mine is worse than average but even the average X5s require semi-annual dealer visits.

    Since I have a $3K uncovered repair coming up in the next 6 months, I'll probably do something before then. Right now, I'm leaning toward (in order): the 2010 Acura MDX, 2010 Audi Q5, 2010 Porsche Cayenne S or GTS (lease). If I wait until Fall, I'll check out the new 2011 BMW 5-series and 2011 X1. (Before you all say the X1 is too small, hold on. It's about the same size as the Q5 and only about a foot shorter than the current X5 while being much better looking than both in my opinion. If you don't need 3 rows of seats, the X1 might be a winner--when it's available that is.)

    I'm really not an expert on all of these cars obviously. But I did want to share the reliability problems I've experienced with my X5. Sorry this post is so long again! I just start writing and before I know it, it's a novel. :)
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Hey,

    Keep on the long messages, I like reading in details.
    I usually like to buy and use it for around 4 to 5 years.
    I wont be looking at leasing, and I lalso like use it around 15k to 18k miles a year at least.

    Reliability is also an issue for me, and I can't understand till this day that why pay more for a premium luxury car and get less reliability.

    If your looking for the upcoming x1, I suggest also do look at the redesign x3, Personally the Q5, x1,x3 are not my type of car, I did take a look at the Audi A4 but can't understand the price :confuse: Audi prices are getting really high.

    OK, u need to decide to get a car within 6months, If u want the cayenne, take a look at the redesign once before making ur decision.

    After all the reliability issues I keep on reading again and again, be it bmw x5,x6 or the audi transmission problems. I sometimes think i'll just get a non luxury.

    I've read a lot about how good infinitis are, how good the interior is and all, after visiting a nissan infiniti dealer, I am never going to ever consider a nissan infiniti no matter how good the performance is, or how good the interior is.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    Yes, I given up, though I still love the gts(stick), and what a deal I had offered to me. Reality is the next suv will eventually go to the wife. Eventhough we'll keep the sienna(our suv) a long time, it get's loaned to my mother a couple a weeks a year, and will be my sons 'training car when he get's his liscence next year.

    I had wanted to take advantage of the sect 179 deduction for a suv over 6,000lbs, but realized I could by used, and also could just lease anything and deduct that payment. And Oh yeah we need a new kitchen more than a new car now.
    I still love my audi, and come spring I'll be driving my 01bmw M3conv, except for rainy days and carpooling.

    Funny you mention the new versus existing bmw 5, I also almost jumped on a 2010 535xi(stick), great deal. Stickered for $66K, could get around $50K,certified! But besides the obvious, didn't see an appreciable difference from my 00A6 with 128K miles. The new 5 looks a lot beter and will have some great tech. I'll be patient and hope to get a good deal in a year or so, maybe even lease. I'll decide then wether to put $3k into the audi for cats, and give the car to my son.

    Finnaly, I agree that the non lux brands are gaining attraction, but I doubt I'll ever drive one, still love nice cars. Would definately not drive an infinit or MB. And yes, audis are getting too expensive, but great products. looking forward to the A7. Actually came pretty close to an acura TL(stick), but just a little to small still. Wife may end up in a MDX someday, like the new tech, reliability! The new cayenne will be very interesting, though probably too expensive.

    This industry is still changing with the current economic conditions. The luxury manufacturers are getting more competitive with technology and new products, while also finding ways to keep thier prices up. Lots of new stuff coming! Good and bad for the consumer

    PS, good laugh last night when keeping pace with a newer S6 (my other idea, whole nother story!) Sure he could have dusted me if he wanted, but like staying out of trouble. I swear I'll grow up someday.
  • mdxfan3mdxfan3 Posts: 13
    Borno & Bmlexus,

    Really enjoy reading your posts! You guys are both characters!

    I'll probably get back to the hunt in a few weeks. Still getting caught up at work with the year-end issues. I'll be sure to check back in a bit and post what I end up buying. Make sure you guys post your next car purchase as well.

    And Borno, if I were you, I'd go with the kitchen remodel, replace the cats, and put off the car purchase. A new kitchen is an appreciating asset while a new car is a depreciating asset. Plus, a new kitchen = a happy wife. And a happy wife = a happy home. :shades:
  • bgsntthbgsntth Posts: 75
    Be sure to drive the GTS Manual before you commit to it. I'm very happy with mine, but it is geared very low and has a 4:1 rear axle. First gear is so short that your foot does not come off the clutch before you shift into second, and 70mph equates to 3K RPMs in 6th gear. It is a very manly beast, and with the PDCC can be driven around 50+mph curves faster than my 2007 Cayman. It also does very well off-road with 18" Pirelli ATRs, though not as well as my prior 2006 LR3.

    The GTS replaced both the Cayman and LR3, which is does better than anything else I could imagine; but I'm planning on going back to the Cayman and LR4 combo when my lease ends.

    BTW, in 8 months and 7K miles, not a blessed thing has gone wrong, rattled or broken on the GTS. My Cayman had lots of issues, many unable to be resolved by the dealer.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    Ok, so life's to short not to have a few laughs right!

    mdxfan3, your so right on with the house thing, won't depreciate, but no guarantee of appreciating either. Anyway, it's much easier to 'sign and drive', than go through a renovation or even a move. Our daughter wants to go to school at a neighboring town, long story, but we'd wait a year or so for the work,(just to let her try our high scool for a year), then wonder how much work to do without over-building.

    bqsntth, I have driven the gts stick with pdcc, it's fantastic! Unfortunately, my existing two vehicles,(both of which I'm very happy with: 01BMW M3 conv, 00Audi A62.7T,both stick) aren't even worth half the cost of the new gts, even though, they've offered me 20% off sticker on a loaded 09 leftover(what a deal!), wish I'd hit the lottery!
  • bgsntthbgsntth Posts: 75
    The GTS is complete hooliganism. No 5000lbs truck with a transfer case has any right to handle that well on tarmac. Even on a windy dirt mountain road I find myself heel-toeing between 2-4 gears and drifting/powersliding through the turns, while never getting over 25mph.

    The dealer offered me 23% off MSRP and a 3% money factor, so it was only $200 amonth over my budget.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    First, doesn't that beast weigh closer to 7K? And, there's no way you're even getting 15 mph, especially if you drive it the proper' way. Sounds like you've definitely had some fun with her. It is quite a unique specimen of auto engineering! Then again so is my E46, M3 convertible! Wouldn't it be nice to collect such treasures!

    Sounds like you got an amazing deal, great! I'm still gonna buy my time, as long as possible. I love my autos, and enjoy feeling frugal. But, man do I still get the ITCH!
  • bgsntthbgsntth Posts: 75
    25mph as in top speed on that dirt road, in low-range. The GTS got about 9-11mpg in the first 3K miles and is getting 13-14mpg since then. This is with the roof rack and a surfboard on top much of the time commuting back an forth into San Francisco. About the same as i was getting in the LR3. Swapping the stock 21" wheels with the 18" wheels improved gas mileage significantly.
  • I am looking to lease a 2010 Cayenne v-6 for 36 months, 10,000 miles a year. You mentioned that there are incentives, etc. How does someone find out about the factory subsidized incentives and what are they?
    Because of the body style change due in 2011, are the dealers willing to really negotiate? I had a dealer quote me $56,476 on a car that the msrp is $60,146. The invoice of this vehicle is $53,787. Seem like there's a better deal out there?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,171

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  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited December 2010
    1. Upscale husbands often have "throphy" wives.
    2. Upscale husbands are often more knowledgeable and intelligent.
    3. Most upscale husbands would NEVER put their wives, throphy or not, in a base FWD vehicle such as is the MDX and/or the RDX.

    The latest Cayenne undoubtedly represents the ultimate in the SUV market today.

    I just wish the hybrid had a N/A V6, who needs drag-racing HP in an SUV..??
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited December 2010
    With the HIGH rate of transaxle failures of the earlier MDX's with the VTM-4 F/awd system how could even the MDX with the SH-AWD system have made it into the top 10...?

    Almost all of these newer F/awd systems, SH-AWD system included, pre-emptive rear drive engagement systems, are experiencing high failure rates of the over-stressed drive line components as a result of "locking" the center "diff'l" even on the most tractive of road surfaces. And "locking" the center "diff'l" in turns, while turning, accelerating turns...

    SHEER IDIOCY.

    Driveline windup and/or tire scrubbing will be at its WORSE measure in tight accelerating turns, thoroughly over-stressing, HEATING, various driveline components. MDX transaxles' lockup clutch and Ford Escape and Mariner PTO's currently top the failure list.

    But if you start out with a SOLID drive coupling to the front wheels then compromises in the name of safety MUST be made. Locking the center "diff'l" while turning in order to reduce the drive torque to the front wheels thereby allocating more front tire traction for lateral forces is then a MUST.

    Or like an actual FWD you could make TC EXTREMELY quick and agressive, ALWAYS. Which it is anyway if wheelspin/slip develops even with the rear drive engaged.
  • This same post, with slight variations, appears on many discussion sites and under a variety of makes. No evidence supporting the statements has ever been provided for any of the makes.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...no evidence.."

    But also no evidence against my position, just statements like that above.

    But logic is on my side, clearly.
  • viola128viola128 Posts: 5
    Yes. I agree.
    I currently own a 745i, it's been 10 years. The driving is very additive and I really enjoy this car. However, it has issues and it's not cheap to keep up with it. I never had big problem with it but all the small little problems could unfortunately cost a lot more than a Toyota.
    I recently test drive a Acura RL (2010) and was actually very impressed by it. I had an Acura Legend, had it for 13 years and really loved the car. I thought Acura has the closest to BMW driving feel. I am seriously thinking about trading mine to the RL.
    My wife is looking for a SUV (used or new) and she is trying to choose between the MDX and Cayenna. I know they are very different but since i had never own a porche before, not sure if Porche makes good Suv and how expansive is it to keep up with the service and repairs ??? Any thoughts on this will help. Also, i am in L.A. and do porche dealers here sell it below MSRP??
    thx
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The older MDX' that used the VTM-4 F/awd system has had, is having serious driveline failure problems. Those seemed to be solved with the switch to the new SH-AWD system but now as of 2010+ transaxle failures seem to be rising again, recent "reflash" TSB even.
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