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Toyota Corolla Electric-Assist Power Steering (EPS)

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Comments

  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    Yep me too in the mail on Saturday i thought what another recall.... funny :)
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    WOW our Government better be careful they have company ;)
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Toyota is just like any other company when it comes to the business end of things and trying to save their a**. But what struck me was that I don't see in this article as any mention of an Electronic Power Steering issue. They mention all of the other potential Toyota woes, but not a mention of an EPS problem. So I don't follow the connection your trying to make with the EPS here.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    edited April 2010
    Tom the reason you did not see EPS is because the story is based upon sifting thru previously filed lawsuits. I do not think there has been one in regards to EPS so it should be no surprise it is not mentioned.

    One aspect to all this that gives me an uneasy feeling is what you are describing- You state your mechanic buddy and the service manager don't know anything about it. Really? All one has to do is look at toyota.com and you can see they have posted the following-
    Posted to: Corolla, Toyota
    Toyota Update
    We are aware of complaints regarding 2009 and 2010 Corolla steering systems and are actively investigating the issue. While we have not received official notification from NHTSA, we will certainly cooperate fully with any NHTSA investigation. We’re committed to being responsive to our customers.

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-update-154007.aspx?srchid=K610_- - p283604577

    And with the formation of a new QA team and I'm pretty sure the service depts. at dealers have meetings to discuss issues just means to me that the level of communication through-out the company is lacking and doesn't sound very responsive to customers IMO. How can a company post something on their website for the world to see, and yet the dealer network doesn't know? You might buy that, but I don't. Add in the fact that amg1099 wasn't told a thing about his vehicle inspection. With all that in mind re-read the above article about the strategy in general. I am not saying they have/are done or doing anything wrong, but the emerging pattern is less than flattering for toyota IMO.

    Update-
    Had a left rear toe adjustment done on Saturday at the dealer (meaning it rolled from the factory out of alignment as mileage listed was only 567). Did not drive it on the freeway back home so I do not know if my issue has been resolved. Haven't had a chance to test drive it further. With the weather we are having now (wind/rain) I will check the issue over the next couple of weeks. But, I thought there was no way to adjust the rear? Some people say there is and some say there is not. If there is and people are reporting this issue why isn't the dealership jumping on this to re-align? Again, the communication and strategy to resolve this issue is lacking IMO right now.

    For the record - I have only driven toyotas since '93 so I am a fan and not trying to bash toyota, but I still have no clear idea of what is going on and what the resolution is. Maybe with a little 'luck' my issue has been resolved. We'll see.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    As I stated previously, I don't doubt that you have/had a problem. But my point being, at some dealerships the guys on the front lines, like my tech. friend or his service manager, have not even heard of the EPS issue because of the infrequency of the complaints. So it don't even come up in some smaller dealerships. You gotta remember, this is a job for these guys. They don't go home and surf Edmunds.com or Toyota.com. and try to read and learn about Toyotas, they go home and try to forget about all of it, unlike us interested owners.
  • dantzdantz Posts: 49
    said by terceltom: "Considering the small number of Corolla owners affected by the EPS problem and the highly unlikely situation of a new Toyota having any problem at all, is really just bad luck".

    I think it's a design problem and that all 2009+ Corollas have the same built-in "wandering steering" effect at highway speeds, but only certain drivers seem to notice it.

    I believe that many drivers are less sensitive to these sorts of things, and they have unconsciously adapted their driving styles by paying much closer attention to their steering during highway driving without even realizing that the car doesn't track as well as it should.

    When I attempted to purchase a 2009 Corolla I noticed the problem immediately during the highway portion of the test drive, although the salesman was clueless about it. I really wanted this car, so I took three test drives in three different 2009 Corollas and they all had the same problem. Eventually I gave up and bought a Honda Civic instead (which, incidentally, has flawless steering and much better handling overall).

    Since then I've rented a large number of other cars, and I've noticed that several other Toyota cars with EPS exhibit the same wandering steering effect, including both a Matrix and a Yaris Sedan. However, they weren't equally faulty. I would rank them in descending order as Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, with the Corolla being worst. So I don't think this is an issue that involves only certain "affected" Corollas. I think it's a global issue that's related to the steering geometry and the design of the EPS system in several models. My guess is that in future models Toyota will be modifying the steering to add better tracking at highway speeds, but in the meantime they would just like the issue to disappear, as they've got enough going on already.

    It's unfortunate that the various Corolla owners who don't like their car's steering didn't realize it during the test drive, but in retrospect I guess it's not that surprising. Most likely the salesman was yakking the whole time, turning on the sound system, talking about how great the various features are, etc., and it's hard to concentrate under those conditions, let alone discover something entirely new and unexpected. Luckily I was able to shut my salesman up so I could focus on the car.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    I think you are just proving my point of lack of communication Tom. There is NO reason to not know about the EPS issue.

    "They don't go home and surf Edmunds.com or Toyota.com. and try to read and learn about Toyotas"

    You're exactly right. That is why Toyota spent millions to create their own exclusive VPN called Dealer Daily. So they do not have to surf and have one source for their info. - The company.

    And as I pointed out the Company already put it on it's external website for the world to see. Since I can not access Daily Dealer to verify I will just assume the network was used to communicate this issue as well.

    "Using Dealer Daily, Toyota can now deliver critical news and other information instantly to any user at any dealership across the country, Cooper says.
    The company can also post critical messages that need immediate attention on Dealer Daily's home page and send targeted messages to users via the system's e-mail application.
    "This is a leap, not a step, from where we were. Communication with the factory is now seamlessly integrated with the dealer management system," says Ron Napoli Jr., general manager for Toyota North in Mount Kisco, N.Y. "
    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/73370/Dealer_Daily_Toyota_s_Communication- _Pipeline?taxonomyId=9&pageNumber=1

    Also remember these 'its just a job to them' guys are certified as well.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    edited April 2010
    "I think it's a design problem and that all 2009+ Corollas have the same built-in "wandering steering" effect...."
    Dantz that may be, but I don't believe that at this time since I have seen car clubs mod or bypass the EPS and say it the effect disappears. Also, the car I test drove did not exhibit this issue. The one I bought did. Again, I just had the rear re-toed and have not had a chance to test it further so my issue may or may not be resolved.

    I tend to think it is how the EPS is tuned into the system as a whole. If not a safety issue/recall then toyota would still be in a position to possibly offer a remedy solution to those that think it is still to 'sensitive" (or what ever else you want to use to describe the issue). However, that might include a re-tune/recalibrate, etc., the system if at all possible (I don't know) or offer to switch it off altogether if that doesn't cause any additional ramifications to other systems on the car (again - I don't know if this is possible, but it does seem that others have done it already).

    I don't think they will act until the NHTSA investigation is concluded. After that they still have options that they could consider is my point. Whether they choose to act or not at that point is entirely up to toyota.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    edited April 2010
    That's funny! You expect an automotive tech. making around $20.00 an hour to go home after working eight hours and study about Toyotas. Really !
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Yeah, all 400,000 of us 2009 and 2010 Corolla owners have the EPS problem but only 200 of us know it, okay!
  • amg1099amg1099 Posts: 14
    Wow, how can you work as a technician and not know anything that's happening to the car or cars that you're fixing? That seems to be odd, Terceltom??????? Yeah!!!!
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    First off, I didn't say they "don't know anything", lets not insult the auto techs. My point was if they haven't had an EPS problem or complaint in their dealerships yet, they aren't going to know about it. Again, what is there, less than 100 EPS complaints out of 400,000 cars sold? That's the real world though. Just tellin it like it is in the auto repair field. Honda, Toyota, GM, Subaru, etc., etc., etc. These guys aren't hung-up on the cars there fixin. To them it's a job. You know, punch in work eight hours, punch out, go home to the family. They couldn't care if their fixin Volkswagons or fixin Toyotas.
  • tomh54tomh54 Posts: 4
    I am not sure if there is a Nissan specific EPS thread. Our 2008 Sentra has the same issues discussed here. 23,000 miles with new tires and you are always fighting the steering. Around town it is extremely aggrivating to continually feel back pressure and bouncing in response to your every move. Generally it wants to fight towards center but is confused by minor wheel movement. At highway speeds it is scary, unstable and unsafe. Slight wheel movement during straight line freeway driving is always met with over compensation back towards center. You can feel the rear end whip when this occurs. The dealer says they have had no complaints. Hopefully there will be some adjustment or resolution soon.
  • dantzdantz Posts: 49
    Your post really belongs in the Nissan forum. I will say that what you're describing sounds very different from the feel of Toyota's EPS system, which generally lacks feedback and is somewhat reluctant to return to center. Regardless of its other issues, Toyota's EPS responds smoothly to a very light touch and never kicks back. Nobody here is "fighting" their steering. It sounds like Nissan may have dialed some feedback into their system, and in your case it may be a bit out of whack.

    If I were you I would try driving some other 2008 Sentras to see if they feel the same way (which I seriously doubt). Also, get one or two skilled independent drivers to test-drive your car. Then present both the dealer and Nissan with your independently verified results and convince them to fix your car.

    Have you already tried searching the Sentra forum for "steering"? I notice that there are some similar posts in the "New Sentra Owners' Experiences" forum. You should also run a Google search on Sentra Electric Power Steering. And I suggest you start your own thread in the Nissan Sentra forum.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Dantz, what your describing sounds like the old manual steering.
    "Feedback" and "returning to center" is something you would expect from the old manual steering of the past. I haven't felt "returning to center" since those old'en days.
  • pekelvrpekelvr Posts: 61
    what are you talking about? even though youre right about the Nissan thing---Im fighting my steering anytime im on a highway which is rarely im not trying to die or kill anyone else!
  • dantzdantz Posts: 49
    "Dantz, what your describing sounds like the old manual steering. "Feedback" and "returning to center" is something you would expect from the old manual steering of the past. I haven't felt "returning to center" since those old'en days."

    Ah yes, the good old days when cars actually used to go where we pointed them, back in the days of those (now hopelessly obsolete) mechanical/hydraulic components.

    Since we're getting historical (but verging on the hysterical), I've heard that the earliest vehicles were built entirely of protoplasm! Yes, these were actual biological units that had to be whipped in order to make them accelerate, and they had steering problems too! But on the plus side, they could find their way home on their own.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Gotta agree with you there. I had a "79" Corolla with manual steering and I just loved it. I felt every little bump in the road and it turned like a truck, but I really miss it. Talk about "return to center" in steering, wow. The tranny finally went at 179,000 abnd I sold it. Looking back now, I should have put another tranny in it and kept it.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Your crack'in me up! LOL . . . . . . Is your car really that bad or are you just embellishing a little ???????
  • dantzdantz Posts: 49
    pekelvr said: "what are you talking about? even though youre right about the Nissan thing---Im fighting my steering anytime im on a highway which is rarely im not trying to die or kill anyone else!"

    I think that tomh54 means something differently than you when he says he is "fighting the steering". Perhaps you're "fighting" to keep your car pointed the way you want it to go, but I doubt if you're actually fighting the wheel itself as it unexpectedly yanks and pulls all by itself, as tomh54 describes. He apparently feels that he's getting way too much steering feedback, whereas the Corolla EPS is so smooth and disconnected that it could almost be described as video-game steering. In fact, tomh54 would probably be very pleased with the feel of the Corolla's steering. Perhaps he should trade up!
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