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Toyota Corolla Electric-Assist Power Steering (EPS)

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Comments

  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    TercelTom,

    "if you would have test driven the same vehicle you were going to purchase I assume you would have caught the problem in the particular car you have now, correct?"

    No. That is incorrect. I have already pointed out numerous times such as dealers picking cars that did NOT have the EPS issue so a buyer did not know what to even look for IMO, searching in the NHTSA/ODI database, posters here and on other sites showing very clearly that people did NOT catch the problem on the vehicle they bought. So, that is four instances you can look at to see that even those that tested the vehicle they bought they did not notice the EPS. I am unclear as to why you seem to be stuck on that point.

    Yet, you somehow caught it before toyota even admitted it.

    Again, HOW did you know there was and EPS issue on the 09's (when toyota would not admit the problem until spring '10) and if you knew why didn't Toyota?
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Your missing the whole point. The EPS problems in some of the newer Corollas didn't just appear on its own. If you car has this problem, it had it from day one. The vehicles that have the EPS problem, had it from the very start. Now again, if you test drove the same Corolla you were going to buy, trust me, you would have known it had you taken it out on the highway as part of your test drive. On the other hand, if you test drove a demo that was a plant from Toyota as you claim, and then decided that you were going to buy a different Corolla all together, based on that test drive, I would say that was wrong and that's what I'm trying to tell you. You should always test drive the car your actually going to buy, not a demo/plant.

    As far as my own particular 2009 Toyota Corolla XLE, I accuired my car in July of 2008. Even at this early stage it was documented by some that this EPS problem was showing it's face. I asked my salesman about it before I even stepped into a Corolla. Of course he didn't know anything about it. So I made it a point to order my vehicle with all possible options and accdesories that were available. I made it very clear to my salesman that my deal was dependant on my car being totally free from any defects or steering problems when it arrived from the factory. When my car came in I took it for a thourough 30 minute test drive to verify it was in perfect condition. It was free from any EPS problem or any problem whatsoever for that matter. Hence, I bought my car. To this day I have not had to return to the dealership except for the recalls that were taken care of pronto. My car is in perfect condition because I tested it before I put my money in the dealers hands.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    edited January 2011
    "As far as my own particular 2009 Toyota Corolla XLE, I accuired my car in July of 2008. Even at this early stage it was documented by some that this EPS problem was showing it's face."

    That is what I am asking you - WHERE is this documentation you speak of that you used before you bought your car regarding specifically EPS issues.

    "I made it very clear to my salesman that my deal was dependant on my car being totally free from any defects or steering problems when it arrived from the factory. "
    Which of course it WAS NOT FREE OF DEFECTS since you where subjected to the pedal and/or floor mat recall.

    So, even testing the car you buy will NOT show the defects. See, it even happens to you.

    Again, WHERE is this documentation specifically regarding the 09 had EPS issues please.
  • Sjarea,

    I own a Godawful driving 2009 Toyota Corolla with EPS and I can tell you a few things about EPS and the particular type of EPS they have in this particular make and model of car. This guy that trolls this message board defending Toyota against any and all negative criticism is not being honest with you or anyone else he has corresponded with about the EPS issue pertaining to the Corolla.

    I don't know what sort of problem your haiving with the car but I personally think every aspect of road handling is extremely bad in the new Corolla with EPS. I just wrote a researxh report on electric power steering for one of my english classes last semester in which i detailed the different types of electric steering systems , the different manufacturers and the makes and models of cars these different makes and models of electric steering systems were being placed in. I know a bit about electric steering. I have posted quite a bit of negative things about this car in the past and I know quite a bit more now than I did then.

    I don't know what your complaint is about the car what you want or expect can be done about it. I can give you an honest answer but you may or may not like it. It might not appeal to you.

    I will be happy to direct you to the website of JTEKT, which is the company producing these steering systems and Toyota happens to own 25 percent of this company as well.

    http://www.jtekt.co.jp/e/products/steering01.html

    If you go to their website you will see several different types of electric steering systems. The steering system at the top, which is column type, is what you have in your car, the 2009 or 2010 or 2011 Corolla whichever it may be. This is by far the cheapest electric steeing system to manufacture and install in a car of all the types. If you look down below at some of the other types such as the pinion type and the rack type you will note in the descriptions that JTEKT which is the manufacturer provides they state that these two other systems provide excellent road handling and road feel. I have test driven cars with both of these other types of electric steering in them and I can attest that the cars I have driven with these other systems in them drove very well. I have driven several new Corollas with EPS and they all drive terribly. Loose wobbly steering with extremely bad road handling. Very difficult to maneuver the car in traffic. This is the way the steering system is engineered to drive. It is not a few cars having a problem. Anyone who tells you that is simply lying to you.

    Let me also tell you about test driving cars. I did not notice on my test drive how bad the Corolla with EPs was going to handle. On a dinky little test drive around the block you cant really get a good feel for how a car is going to handle unless you very specifically test the handling of the car by puling it off into a parking lot and maneuvering it a little bit. My car didnt seem all that bad when I drove it around the block on the test drive but when I started driving it in traffic during normal usage it was immediately and apparently clear. I started noticing how bad it handled on the drive home from the dealer.

    Anyway, I don't know what you hope to do about your car but I wish you the best.

    Biff
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    Biffpreston1,

    "I don't know what your complaint is about the car what you want or expect can be done about it. I can give you an honest answer but you may or may not like it. It might not appeal to you. "

    I appreciate it and all you've done. Hopefully your teacher gives you and A+ for your work and effort. I would :)

    Before I go into any (or more) detail may I ask you if you have had the TSB fix applied?

    Here is the link to the TSB which you should print and take to the dealer w/you.
    http://www.toyotapart.com/Steering_Off_Center_Feel_TSB014010.pdf

    Also, I would also advise you to A) call the 1-800 toyota experience number and B) File a complaint under 'steering' with the NHTSA and specifically the Ofiice of Defective Investigations (ODI)
    Here is the link to file a complaint-
    https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

    Outside of doing those three things 1st I say thanks again and will tell you I have book marked your link and ALWAYS keep my options open....
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    edited January 2011
    Biffpreston1,

    Couple of quick thoughts - Since you have started your research and produced a paper I would suggest you A) put it online if you are comfortable w/ it because I am sure it is excellent based on your motivation to write such paper and I'd like to see it B) Shop that sucker around (aka e-mail it) to car media types and see if they would want to buy/use, print or post on their websites. C) Mail (or e-mail) that sucker off to JTEKT :) specifically to:
    Chairman Kohshi Yoshida
    President and Director Motohiko Yokoyama
    EVP and Director Shoji Ikawa
    Osaka Head Office
    3-5-8 Minamisemba, Chuo-ku, Osaka 542-8502 Japan

    Now, you may get nothing back which is fine. You may even hear back which is even better.

    The main reason I suggest this now is to get your name and work out there because if you do and there is a recall you could stand to benefit from it. In that scenario you've already made the contacts and since you are now known they will come a runnin' back to you. So, keep all your options open for the work you've produced and the knowledge you've gained because you never know.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    once last thing-

    "I just wrote a researxh report on electric power steering for one of my english classes last semester in which i detailed the different types of electric steering systems , the different manufacturers and the makes and models of cars these different makes and models of electric steering systems were being placed in. I know a bit about electric steering. I have posted quite a bit of negative things about this car in the past and I know quite a bit more now than I did then. "

    I bet you do!

    "I don't know what your complaint is about the car what you want or expect can be done about it. I can give you an honest answer but you may or may not like it. It might not appeal to you. "

    Do tell. I've had the TSB fix applied a while back. Lets just say I am still in the testing mode.
    Lay into it, pra-fessor. What did you learn about EPS? Based on what you learned how does that apply or perhaps not apply to the TSB fix in your view.
  • Sjarea

    I wrote a research report. It doesnt make me an engineer and I certainly do not claim to be one. It simply gave me a better idea about these steering systems. Without having very detailed technical knowledge about the design characteristics of the column mounted electric steering I could not accurately describe in terms my absolute belief which I will dare say is fact that there is nothing that can be done to the column mounted electric steering systems in these cars to make the steering responsive and accurate. Column mounted electric steering really is an already outdated type of electric steering. It is a primitive and poorly performing type of electric steering system. Unfortunately when manufactures start using a system like this in their cars unless there is severe pressure to change to a better system through consumer pressure or governmental pressure they will continue to produce them as long as they can as long as people buy them.

    I have driven 4 different models of two different makes of cars that use column mounted electric steering and every one of them drives exactly the same. Loose wobbly steering at low speeds, sharp accurate turns are impossible, completely disconnected road feel, excessive free-play in the steering wheel etc..... The Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Sentra and Nissan Versa were the four cars. They all drove exactly the same. I believe there are 6 different settings in the Corolla for the amount of assist the car gives you depending on what speed ranges you are travelling at. Tinkering around with that feature of the steering system is not going to make the car steer more accuraterly or make the steering more responsive. This is what the so called TSB is all about and it is nothing but a customer service strategy. As i said it is an already outdated form of electric steering that performs very poorly.

    I also reported this problem to the NHTSA two years ago and also contacted Toyota. I contacted several attorneys offices as well in order to attempt to start a lemon case to no avail unfortunately. I chose to learn more about electric steering by writing my research report on it in order not to make the same mistake that I did in buying my Corolla in the first place.

    Go test drive a new ford car using electric assist rack and pinion steering. Earlier in some of my posts I was harping on how much better the Honda Civic and Mazda 3 handled than the new Corolla with EPS. The new Ford cars with their rack and pinion type of EPS handle much better than even the Honda Civic and Mazda 3. The Ford Fiesta is probably the best handling small car I have ever driven. I'm about to sell this piece of junk I have and buy one of those probably but not until I have test driven the Hyundai's and Volkswagens first. I doubt i will buy one of those but I still plan to consider all options.

    Biff
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Evidence ? - How about - Toyotanation.com - June of 2008
    Insideline.com - December of 2007
    Houstoncars.com - March of 2008

    I could go on and on, didn't you believe me ? ? ? ? I didn't even need to write a reasearch paper to find all of this out, just had to be an informed buyer.

    My Corolla was not affected at all by the recalls at all, my car was returned for me to maximize my resale value should I ever decide to part ways with my "09" Corolla.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    No here's the REAL TRUTH -

    See what Biff isn't telling you is he refuses to have the "EPS fix" done by Toyota that was recommended. There were others that were affected by this EPS problem that have now had "the fix" completed that are now very happy with their Corollas.

    He also fails to recognize that this problem is not Corolla wide. He insist that this problem affects all 2009 and 2010 Corollas built, and that is just not true. Read the post from others like myself that have perfect cars.

    By the way he now states he still has his"piece of junk" as he puts it; many post ago he told us he sold it back to Toyota for a hefty sum and was done with it . . . . . So what is it ? ? ? ?
    Maybe you'd like to take his advice and buy a Ford Fiesta ! . . . LOL
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Actually, after checking past postings it wasn't Biff that sold his "piece of junk" back to Toyota, it was spikejr1. I appologize to Biff for the misinformation. But maybe he might want to consider selling his back like spikejr1 did.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    Biff,

    NEVER EVER be afraid of being the "little guy". Once upon a time a cell phone carrier wanted to put a tower right next to me on quasi-public land. Guess what? In front of my City Council I was called every name under the sun - I was NOT and Radio Frequency Engineer (RF engineer) and I was NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) and anti-business and blah blah blah etc., etc., etc., Guess what? After two years there is NO cell tower installed next to me. Think they can hear me now? (FYI - Not the same celluar company of which you might think)

    I hear what you're saying about Lemon Laws and attorneys. Believe me.

    Also, I happen to reside in a state with some of the STRONGEST lemon laws. Briefly meaning - I do NOT have to go back x number of times during a specific time period NOR do I need to have the vehicle under warranty. This is REGARDLESS of what the dealer/maker tells me or would like me to believe. Meaning - I can be well out of warranty and STILL have a strong case. And I do NOT have to have my case arbitrated first as well. It is that simple.

    So, again, I hear what you are saying. However, keep in mind that there is STILL an OPEN investigation by the NHTSA into EPS (for '09 and '10 model years) so you may want to still consider ALL your options open regardless of your time frame or the number of times you took it back to the dealer. Did you mention the NHTSA investigation to the lawyers you talked to? If not, you may want to go back and talk to them. Also, point them to this forum. ...! And you may want to start taking screen shots of this and other forums you go to. Besides a good story lawyers like things they can get there hands on...

    Like I said before- I keep my options OPEN. You should too. If for any reason you, Biff, need to contact me just add an ATyahooDOTcom to the end of my screen name. I'd like to see your report.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    TercelTom,

    First off, you and I can agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that. It's probably why forums like this are so beneficial.

    That said - I still do not buy what your selling.

    And you sound like your responding to the Ford commercials in regards to resale value. IMO, that is too funny.

    Of course, you NEVER could know of the recall for pedal/floor mats as it was issued well AFTER you bought your car as you posted in #569. So, to say it was not affected at all by the recalls is inane (which is a word and not a typo). Your car had defects when you bought it that you did not know existed at the time.

    The ONLY way it could not have be recalled is if the VIN starts with 'J' meaning your car was made in Japan and shipped over. But, I doubt it if you bought your car in the US or Canada it was shipped over IMO. ALL the north american cars were recalled. What state did you buy your car in and what does your VIN start with?

    FACT:, my car was made at the NUMMI (thus my 1N start of the VIN) plant the last month of production there. This was AFTER the recall for the pedal and/or mates. Guess what? My car was STILL sold to me and THEN I received a recall for the pedal/mats. Do you want to know what my dealer told me when I asked them about this? I think you can figure it out...

    Toyota was still making AND selling the cars with the 'bad' pedals contrary to them saying they stopped production to fix the issue. Unless, you believe everything you read in the press nowadays....All I know is that toyota paid huge fines to avoid admitting any wrong doing. Still does not mean they were right. And it does not absolve them from further legal action over their product IMO.

    Still don't believe me? I can/will scan and post a link to my dated sales invoice AND a photo of my door sticker showing manufacture date AND my dated recall letter I received after buying it AND the dated invoice in which shows the dealer did the recall repair (which was done when I had the TSB EPS fix work) here if you'd like for you and others to see those facts. Not a problem. Just ask. I would redact any info that would identify me or my car or the dealer mind you. But, that does NOT change what I have in my possession.

    Side note - Also, I will acknowledge know that I do not know if I still have the recall letter. I think I do. Even if do NOT (toyota should have a copy) have it I can still show when the car was made and when I bought and when the work was performed. Those dates where ALL after the recall was issued. Again, just ask.

    I think all you've done is bolster my point that even test driving the car you buy will NOT show all the defects AND toyota knew they had issues with EPS but continued to sell the cars.

    Another side note-
    "Other documents obtained by the congressional panel through subpoena included an internal memo in which Toyota's top US executive boasted of limiting the financial impact of its product recalls through lobbying efforts."
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110106/bs_afp/usautocompanyrecalltoyotajustice_201- 10106005127

    Personally I can't see WHY someone would still buy the car after knowing of that issue. I wouldn't and toyota knew that which is why they chose the test models for customer to drive w/out the EPS issue IMO.

    But, I while acknowledge your cited sources. Thank you. However, even though you found them before you bought your car I do NOT consider those sources as common places a person would look in buying a car. ESPECIALLY when a buyer does NOT know the issues existed.

    Again if one does not know of a specific issue to look for then it is next to impossible to find (much like the recall of the pedals and/or floor mats)

    As far as I can tell Biff has NOT said he had the TSB fix applied or not applied.

    And just because you and others think the car is OK does NOT mean you do NOT have the EPS problem. You very well could be those that 'adjusted' to it.

    I was not and knew there was an EPS issue with my vehicle.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    From my count there are 297 under 2009 models and 275 complaints under 2010 under steering. Although, I can not confirm they are all related to EPS since I am not going to read them all. But considering the NHTSA started the investigation at 168 complaints(combined for '09 and '10) that is a pretty good uptick if they are related to EPS IMO.

    And on here we've seen someone mention rentals have the issue as well. I doubt the rentals would ever get reported.

    But seems the more people know the more complaints come in. Also, if you take into account the adage - For every 1 person that complains 10 do not then I suspect there are more out there.

    Search or file complaints-
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/index.cfm
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    I believe there is a thread to discuss "Toyota Corolla Recalls". Anyway, NO my car was not affected by the EPS problem, I made sure of that when it came in from delivery. This is something you and Biff should have done a little more extensively to avoid the problems you are now having.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    edited January 2011
    TercelTom,

    I used the mat/pedal recall as a relevant example here of how test driving the car one buys will not show the all the issues (just like EPS issue) because you said you had no issues at all and you made sure of it. I said I did not believe that thus my examples. I am NOT saying your car had the EPS issue. There is a difference.

    And in my case even the issue I was aware of (pedal/mats) still existed on my car even though I did exactly what you did. So, no amount of research before hand would have helped me or others. The dealer still sold it and the manufacturer still made it.

    Therefore it is not a stretch for me based on my experience to believe that toyota knew of the EPS issue and dealers picked test models that did not have the issue.

    And since I was unaware of the EPS issue there is no way I could have detected it. It is unfeasible to require a buyer to read 1000 forums or websites before they buy. Otherwise, no one is going to go thru the effort and buy anything.

    However IF that is the case and it is good enough in your view to go to those sites to be made aware of the issue then I ask you again - Why didn't toyota if it is good enough for their buyers? If you used those sites why doesn't toyota in regards to EPS? You would think if customers are going to websites and then coming in saying 'Hey don't sell me a car w/ EPS issues' then toyota should be looking at those same sites as well. If the buyer is using websites to be informed it is not a stretch to think toyota would want to use the same sites to be just as informed as their customers that step onto their lots and inquire about their product. Do you consider that to be a stretch for them? I don't.

    Let me put it another way. Why are Budwiser and McDonald's so popular?
    Because people know what they are getting before they buy it. Their expectations for the product are pre-set based on past experiences.

    So basically a budwiser is a budwiser is a budwiser no matter where I buy it. Just like a McD's burger is like a burger is like a burger no matter where I buy it.

    Therefore the toyota I test should be like any other toyota out there.

    If it is NOT then the customer does not have a problem. The manufacturer does.

    If you buy a six-pack of beer do you drink one can first? When you buy a burger do you take a bite before you buy it?

    Now, sure, I can buy a bad six-pack or a bad burger. It happens from time to time. But, when it starts to happen to more than one buyer in more than one market area then the buyer does not have a problem.

    The manufacturer does and needs to take any and all steps to correct the issue. If the manufacturer continues to sell the product then...

    Again, that is exactly what happened to me based on my experience in regards to EPS. So, even if I knew of the issue and told them I did not want a car with EPS issues it still could have happened just like the pedals/mats.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    edited January 2011
    sjavea states - "toyota knew of the EPS issue and dealers picked test models that did not have the issue"

    Yes, It's very possible that Toyota knew of the EPS problem when you bought your car, hence that's probrably why they had you test drive a demo/EPS problem free Corolla. Even more reason why you should test drive the actual car you are going to purchase.

    sjavea states - "And since I was unaware of the EPS issue there is no way I could have detected it.

    Yes, there is a way you could have detected it, most people test drive their actual car before finalizing the sale.

    sjavea states - "If you buy a six-pack of beer do you drink one can first? When you buy a burger do you take a bite before you buy it"?

    Certainly not, but when buying a car I highly suggest you DO, test drive that car first.
    Can you really compare a $1.00 burger or a can of beer to a $17,000.00 car? I don't think so.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    Terceltom,

    The dollar amount is irrelevant in my examples. What I am referring to is the customer buying experience NOT the dollar amount. So, yes, one can really compare the buying experience of a burger to a car.

    However, in terms of dollar amounts I do think every buyer spending a few $1K's want a car that is at least going to drive straight!!

    Here are some examples of people that tested their cars and still didn't find it. You can find many more within the NHTSA database.

    So, I still completely disagree with you. Testing the car does NOT ensure one will detect the EPS issue. I think it's kinda funny you won't comment of why toyota shouldn't use the websites like their customers like you say you did to find the issue. To bad they didn't because now the website the need to use (or perhaps worry about?) belongs to the NHTSA and their open investigation into EPS.

    WE PURCHASED A 2010 TOYOTA COROLLA IN SEP 2009. THE DAY AFTER WE PURCHASED THE VEHICLE WE NOTICED THE EPS SYSTEM WAS VERY ERRATIC, CAUSING CONSTANT CORRECTIONS. THIS IS MORE NOTICEABLE AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS, THEREFORE ON THE "TEST" DRIVE, WE DIDN'T REALIZE THE EXTENT OF THE PROBLEM
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsummary.cfm?odi_id=- 10302408&prod_id=695829&cmpt_id=1&type=1

    RECENTLE PURCHASED A NEW 2010 COROLLA. LIKE OTHERS, IT SEEMED TO DRIVE FINE ON A TEST DRIVE. THE FIRST TIME MY WIFE DROVE IT ON THE HIGHWAY HER ARMS WERE TIRED AFTER 25 MILES TRYING TO KEEP IT STRAIGHT.
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsummary.cfm?odi_id=- 10302584&prod_id=695829&cmpt_id=1&type=1

    I PURCHASED A 2010 TOYOTA COROLLA IN DECEMBER. DURING THE TEST DRIVE I COMMENTED THAT THE STEERING FELT FUNNY, BUT THE DEALER AND I CHALKED IT UP TO THE ROAD CONDITIONS. I CONTINUE TO OBSERVE THAT THE CAR IS WEAVING BACK AND FORTH ESPECIALLY ON THE FREEWAY. IF I HADN'T SEEN THE NEWS STORY ABOUT THIS ISSUE, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE JUST ASSUMED THAT THE STEERING WAS "TOUCHY" FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD.
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsummary.cfm?odi_id=- 10308501&prod_id=695829&cmpt_id=1&type=1
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Let me ask you simple question - Now that you're stuck with your Corolla that has EPS issues, do you wish you would have taken YOUR car on a half hour test drive on the highway where you would have noticed this problem? The buyers in these examples that you site made the same mistake you did, they didn't test drive on the highway as recommended by Edmunds and other auto buying guides. Now I never said Toyota was faultless for making some troublesome Corollas with steering issues, but my point remains that if you followed correct buying recommendations you would have most likely caught this problem before you made the deal and perhaps selected another car with your specifications or even ordered one like I did.

    sjarea states - "I think it's kinda funny you won't comment of why Toyota shouldn't use the websites like their customers like you say you did to find the issue. To bad they didn't because now the website the need to use (or perhaps worry about?) belongs to the NHTSA and their open investigation into EPS"

    I believe I did state in my previous post that Toyota most likely new some of their new Corollas had EPS issues, but by test driving mine, I knew mine DIDN'T. On another note I believe Toyota is making all Corolla owners that complain, whole by issuing repairs/replacements to the steering of those cars affected.

    sjarea states - "one can really compare the buying experience of a burger to a car"

    Well I don't know about you, but I can stand to get a bad $1.00 burger and not feel too bad but if I got a bad $17,000.00 car due to my own negligence I would really be pi**ed-off.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    edited January 2011
    Terceltom,

    I already told you - No I would not have detected it and that I disagree with you as I have shown in my previous posts. I was NOT negligent. Negligence implies I had some inkling that a problem existed and did further research into the issue and found there was an issue or failed not to research when I had the inkling and still bought the car and then complained. You knew the problem existed and therefore knew you should look into the issue further. I and others did not know therefore no negligence on my part could be implied.

    What you might be inferring is diligence. However, even a diligent process could still not ensure the EPS issue would be detected.

    If toyota most likely knew of the problem then I do not think they should wait for people to complain. They should do the right thing and issue a recall.

    Any negligence would fall on a manufacturer that knows they have a steering problem and yet continues to sell those cars to unsuspecting buyers.

    Maybe you or edmunds.com will e-mail/ call Steve St. Angelo, Toyota’s Chief Quality Officer for North America and ask him or someone in his office to come here and read and comment on this thread.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    sjarea states - "What you might be inferring is diligence"

    No, what I was inferring was negligence - as in, the failure to exercise that degree of care in circumstances.

    sjarea states - "If toyota most likely knew of the problem then I do not think they should wait for people to complain. They should do the right thing and issue a recall"

    I agree 100% but unfortunately and apparently you can't even trust Toyota anymore, so it's up to you and I to make sure the quality of what we buy is up to par. And personnally I wouldn't want them tinkering with my steering as I like it just the way it is.

    sjarea states - "Any negligence would fall on a manufacturer that knows they have a steering problem and yet continues to sell those cars to unsuspecting buyers"

    Well I guess the jury is still out if there actually is, or even if they knew about this problem, hence the investigation by the NHTSA.

    sjarea states - "Maybe you or edmunds.com will e-mail/ call Steve St. Angelo, Toyota’s Chief Quality Officer for North America and ask him or someone in his office to come here and read and comment on this thread"

    Don't think he'll make the time for us peons, he just wants our money $$$.
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    TercelTom,

    I still completely disagree with you.

    Also, even looking at
    http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/

    10 Steps to Buying a New Car
    Checklist
    Published: 11/08/2002 Updated: 04/30/2009 - by Philip Reed, Senior Consumer Advice Editor, Edmunds.com
    http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/10-steps-to-buying-a-new-car-pg12.html

    It does not state anywhere in there to test drive the specific car you are buying.

    The closets it gets to is:
    # If you haven't already done so, test-drive all the cars you are considering buying.
    Which is exactly what I did.

    And
    # Inspect the car for dents, dings and scratches before taking final delivery.
    Which is exactly what I did.

    Perhaps edmunds.com will update their article with your suggestion.

    So, where is the negligence? Again, I completely disagree with you.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    edited January 2011
    Okay, but I sure next time you buy a car you won't fall for the demo test drive trick, bet you'll test drive YOUR OWN car, right?
  • sjareasjarea Posts: 49
    Probably not since I have driven test models before and never had problems in the past when buying a new car.

    The only right thing for me to do is never buy a toyota again.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Probrably better off with that Ford Fiesta, LOL
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,876
    Maybe so. The Corolla isn't the right car for everyone.

    Why argue? The OP doesn't like his car or how it performs. No amount of hindsight or debate is going to change that. Several people don't like how the EPS performs, others do. That's just the way it is.

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  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Correct and compounded by the fact that some just don't like it and some actually have a problem unit; it's difficult to distinguish dismay from disfunctional.
  • biffpreston1,

    I'm not sure what grade your English professor gave you on your research project, but I hope it wasn't an "A". You have hurt the quality of this discussion forum by spreading inaccurate information about the 2010 & 2011 Toyota Corolla Electronic Power Steering systems.

    I'd like to set the record straight for everyone reading here, because better understanding the new EPS systems in the new cars is important. I appreciate your research into (JTEKT) , and what products they produce. But you failed to realize that for at least the (2010 Corolla) and 2011 Corola the EPS system was "Steering: Electric Power Streeing (EPS); power-assisted rack-and-pinion". In your post you said "If you look down below at some of the other types such as the pinion type and the rack type you will note in the descriptions that JTEKT which is the manufacturer provides they state that these two other systems provide excellent road handling and road feel." I hope that this is true, as it would mean that this is a system of a higher quality than the Column-type.

    As an added note, the following new cars in this class have the "Rack-and-pinion" style EPS: 2011 Toyota Corolla, 2011 Honda Civic, 2011 Chevy Cruze, 2012 Ford Focus

    The following new cars in this class have the "Column" style EPS: 2011 Hyundai Elantra

    I would suggest you do some fact checking against the research paper you wrote, and then come back here and discuss the 2011 Corolla. In addition to that, I would also suggest you go by a Toyota dealer, and test drive the 2011 Corolla to assist in discussing your opinion on how it drives (not how the 2009-2010 model drives).

    Respectfully
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Thank you for the very thorough explanation, I hope that puts this baby to rest. . . . . . .
  • Whether or not I was wrong on the Hyundai doesnt really matter. As far as the 2011 Corolla is concerned I have yet to find out. I figured your company would eventually have to switch from the extremely poor performing column type EPS that a a great many people got stuck with. A lot of people got screwed with really lousy subpar handling cars.

    It remains to be seen whether the 2010 Corolla and 2011 Corolla have Rack and pinion EPS. There are even more complaints to the NHTSA regarding the 2010 Corolla for the same exact problems with the steering as the 2009 Corolla.

    Toyota certainly did not do anything for those of us that ended up buying Corollas with the column mounted garbage steering. So I have nothing positive to say about the almighty Toyota Corporation.

    Want to pick my posts apart how about this. You say. "But you failed to realize that for at least the (2010 Corolla) and 2011 Corola the EPS system was "Steering: Electric Power Streeing (EPS); power-assisted rack-and-pinion" then you say at the end of your post I would also suggest you go by a Toyota dealer, and test drive the 2011 Corolla to assist in discussing your opinion on how it drives (not how the 2009-2010 model drives).

    "for at least the (2010) and 2011 they had rack and pinion type EPS then at the end I should somehow see how the 2011 model drives and compare it to the 2009 and 2010. So which years do Corollas have rack and pinion type EPS. Do they have it in 2010 and 2011 like you said earlier in your post or only in 2011 like you imply at the end of your post?

    Toyota can stick it BTW! They have made no effort to contact me and attempt to make anything right. I guess smirking lying Jim Lentz has better things to do.

    You know I really enjoyed reading about how the Toyota executive in charge of quality control who testified in front of congress in place of Akio Toyoda lied.

    Heres a statement he made from the Washington Times. "Mr. Sasaki said drivers may have felt as though they were losing control over the steering, but it was not clear why. He mentioned problems with the braking system or tires as possible underlying causes of the steering problem. U.S. officials also are investigating the complaints."

    Not clear why? Gee maybe the new Column type EPS. Guess he just didnt figure that the funky new column type EPS they just started putting in the cars might just be the reason for the steering complaints. No it might be the tires or the brakes. Uh Huh. Good Ol' Honest Toyota Motor Corporation. Way to sidestep the truth.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/18/corolla-steering-is-latest-probl- em-for-toyota/
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