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Toyota Corolla Electric-Assist Power Steering (EPS)

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Comments

  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Biffpreston1 states - "I figured your company would eventually have to switch from the extremely poor performing column type EPS that a a great many people got stuck with"

    Really? Where did bleschber ever say he worked for Toyota? This is why I have a very hard time taking you seriously. You attack and insinuate and show your paranoia tendencies. You did the same thing to me in the past. Please try to avoid all that and stick to the topic at hand.
  • The 2011 Toyota Corolla uses variable assist column mounted electric steering. It has not changed. Same lousy subpar handling. Wobbly loose steering at all speeds and the inability to maneuver the car adequately. Truly an unbelievable joke of a car.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Why don't you go test drive one before passing judgment on the new 2011 Corolla. As you might know by now, many of us have a 2009 and 2010 Corolla and we're very happy with the new EPS steering. And we don't care if it's mounted on the column, the floor, the dash or on the roof for that matter. It's the fact how nice it is to drive a car that is actually a treat to drive with such an added feature to the steering that matters, not where the steering motor is located.
  • biffpreston1biffpreston1 Posts: 7
    edited February 2011
    The cars with column mounted electric steering drive like crap and in a serious way and you know this and I know that you do. I don't care what you say in your posts about how much you love your car and how well it drives and how I don't tell you how your wonderful little car drives. I have driven four cars with column mounted electric steering on test drives. I have driven a different Toyota Corolla, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris and Nissan Sentra. They all drove exactly the same. All of them had loose wobbly steering at all speeds and all of them were hard to maneuver at all speeds. The driving characteristics were representative of variable assist column mounted electric steering. Variable assist column mounted steering is a an outdated form of electric steering that performs very poorly. The new electric assist rack and pinion steering systems, like the ones Ford is now using, are vastly superior in performance to the column mounted EPS that Toyota is using. There are much bigger differences between the column type EPS in the corolla and the electric assist rack and pinion systems and those differences go far beyond where the motor is placed. The Column mounted EPS uses a funky worm gear in its design instead of having a nice rack and pinion. It essentially uses a funky screw at the end of what you might call the steering column to interface with the steering rack on the car. The screw essentially screws as the steering wheel is turned and this interfaces with the steering rack and the car turns. Instead of a nice accurate pinion to roll along a rack. It is a very bad design and it is very outdated in terms of performance. There is no way your going to use a worm gear to interface with the rack like they have done with these steering systems and have nice accurate crisp steering.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Don't be offended Biff, but none of that technical stuff really matters to me. What does matter to me as well as others that have posted on this thread is that our 2009 or 2010 Corollas equipped EPS have fine steering control, maneuverability and ease of steering. Like I said before, I can literaly parallel park my Corolla with one finger. On the highway I often find myself driving with my right arm up on the passenger seat just relaxing. In fact, I have to remind myself that this isn't a good practice to fall into. Wish you could come drive my car to see how yours should drive . . . . . . . .
  • biffpreston1biffpreston1 Posts: 7
    edited February 2011
    Something for people to consider when coming to these boards or any other forums on the internet of any type for that matter is that some people lie and play games. It is something done on a daily basis all over the internet. Anyone who tells you that you are paranoid for stating or understanding that is likely to be a game player. I don't lie and play games. I say that people should do some side by side comparisons of the New funky Corolla with EPS and the new Ford Fiesta and the Honda Fit or any of the other cars that use a form of electric steering other than column mounted. When test driving the cars simply pull into a parking lot along the test drive route and maneuver the car a bit in the parking lot make sure you can steer and turn the car acurately and quickly and do this in a number of different ways. Take 3 to 5 minutes to do this. The Corolla will fail and I mean fail miserably compared to the other cars. It's like a car with a handicap compared to the others. It's important to test drive the cars your comparing on the same day and preferrably close to one another in order to get a good side by side comparison. Does it sound like I'm the one lying and playing games here?
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    edited February 2011
    Well only since your asking Biff, I would have to answer YES to your last question. Although I do agree 100% with you on one thing, drivers should take the Ford Fiesta vesus the Toyota Corolla test drive. OMG that's so funny, I can't even type that without laughing! LOL . . . . . Hey, do you work for a Ford dealer? LOL
  • I expected something like your last post. You read exactly what I said. I said Ford Fiesta or Honda Fit. I must work for 2 different car companies. I also said or any other car with electric steering thats not the column mounted type.

    When someone drives several models of the same car the Toyota Corolla with EPS in this case and then drives several models of other cars with the exact same type of electric power steering along with the car that they own with the same type of electric steering and they all drive exactly the same, there is absolutely no question that that individual has an excellent sense of the driving characteristics of that particular type of electric steering system.

    When that particular individual logs onto a message board and they see someone who appears to be obsessed with defending a car company and they see that person stating that the steering is really good on that model of car and how dare anyone tell them how their car handles. It is pretty obvious that person is lying and lying absolutely. That person is lying willingly and knowingly. The only mystery is why. It's not too much of a mystery though there are only a couple of good reasons someone would do that. The way that person is describing their so called car is completely contrary to the way the steering system is designed to drive and it is completely obvious to the person who understands how the car is designed to drive. It is unfortunately not obvious to most people who really don't know much about these cars or these steering systems. Those are the type of people who log onto message boards like this one to get real and honest answers to their questions.

    Toyota can't seem to get the basics down these days, steering, braking and throttle. Really, they have had major trouble with all three. Maybe Jim Lentz can come out and smirk and lie in front of some camera somewhere and tell Toyota customers and potential customers how much the company cares about them and how much the company is working hard to correct these "minor" mistakes that its made. I mean after all when you buy Toyota your like family right. Want to talk about a laughable concept.
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Biff states - " When test driving the cars simply pull into a parking lot along the test drive route and maneuver the car a bit in the parking lot make sure you can steer and turn the car acurately and quickly and do this in a number of different ways. Take 3 to 5 minutes to do this. The Corolla will fail and I mean fail miserably compared to the other cars. It's like a car with a handicap compared to the others. It's important to test drive the cars your comparing on the same day and preferrably close to one another in order to get a good side by side comparison"

    Wooow! For a guy who couldn't notice his own Corolla's faulty steering when he test drove it and purchased it, you sure do have a lot of instruction for other potential buyers. Perhaps you should take your own advice next time and pay a little closer attention and maybe you won't buy a lemon, huh?
  • zekeman1zekeman1 Posts: 422
    Good God Almighty!! You two people are absolutely fascinating with your obsession of defending and trashing a car to the point of sounding like two 10 year olds. Face it - one of you absolutely hates the car and the other absolutely is enamored with the car to the point of making one wonder whether he works for Toyota and invented the damn EPS system.

    I had a 2010 Corolla and got rid of it after 8 months due to the crappy steering - it was my last Toyota after about 6 or so different models. Why am I writing this? I stop back by and see how the EPS saga is going - obviously, terceltom is still there defending EPS and every other picayune downside someone brings up..."the windshield washer fluid on my 2010 Corolla doesn't shoot a strong stream"; you can count on the fact that terceltom will state that his shoots so hard it leaves scratches on the windshield.

    Face it - some hate the car and some would sleep in their car if their wife gave them a chance (wonder why they don't). Come on people, get over it and discuss things that are really important about the car! I thought that's what this forum was all about - ?

    As a side note, I wonder where the Moderator is in all this p***ing contest? I used to be chastised for a heck of a lot less!
    Z
  • dchevdchev Posts: 38
    Toyota is listening to its customers. 2011 Toyota Corolla has EPS rack and pinion system. Go check out their website and make it a day:)
    I just purchased a 2011 Toyota Corolla S, and I like it very much so far!
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Zekeman1 states - "terceltom is still there defending EPS and every other picayune downside someone brings up..."

    Hey if Al Gore can invent the internet I could invent Toyota's EPS - But what the he** is a picayune?

    Hey Zeke, my washer shot so strong it not only cleaned my windows but the guys behind me as well, bet that Fiesta can't do that!

    I only sleep Mon. thru Fri. in my 2009 Corolla, I try to spend weekends with my wife.

    Zekeman1 states - "discuss things that are really important about the car! I thought that's what this forum was all about - ?"

    Wrong, this forum is about EPS - your in the wrong thread

    Zekeman1 states - "I wonder where the Moderator is in all this p***ing contest?"

    Think how boring this thread would be if all we had to do is listen to Biff trash the new Corollas
  • terceltomterceltom Posts: 1,017
    Biff states - "Variable assist column mounted steering is a an outdated form of electric steering that performs very poorly. The new electric assist rack and pinion steering systems, like the ones Ford is now using, are vastly superior in performance to the column mounted EPS that Toyota is using. There are much bigger differences between the column type EPS in the corolla and the electric assist rack and pinion systems and those differences go far beyond where the motor is placed."

    Now Biff, your wrong again, the new poster is correct, the new 2011 Corolla does indeed use the new electric assist Rack and Pinion steering that you praise above. Should really do some research before you trash the new 2011 Corolla.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    As a side note, I wonder where the Moderator is in all this p***ing contest? I used to be chastised for a heck of a lot less!

    As the moderator (me) can't be hitting re-load on this discussion 24/7, we often rely on the expectation that members will exercise some self-control and post according to our Membership Agreement and standards of common courtesy.

    You might be surprised to find that, at 11:14 pm my time on Friday evening (the time of your post), I was not working.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • dantzdantz Posts: 49
    posted by terceltom:
    "the new poster is correct, the new 2011 Corolla does indeed use the new electric assist Rack and Pinion steering"

    If you do a little research I think you'll find that the 2009 and 2010 Corollas with EPS also boast of "power-assisted rack-and-pinion" steering, so I don't think much has changed there, aside from possibly a few tweaks.

    Anyway, rather than arguing about it, I think somebody here should try driving a 2011 Corolla to find out whether or not the straight-line tracking (or lack thereof) at highway speeds has been improved. That's the only real area of concern. The rest is just normal Corolla handling.
  • sajsansajsan Posts: 4
    I concur.

    I went to get my 5th corolla - yes - 5th corolla which is a record in 20 years.

    I am sorry to say, as a die hard toyota Corolla fan. They have lost it on this model. I walked away from a great deal on the following reason.

    The steering is completely useless. It is unsafe and dangerous to drive. At higher speeds i expected the steering to tighten, it does not. It is very flimsy and you easily overcorrect. In case of highway winds we get here; you will be white knuckled.

    There is pronounced body roll. I was testing the S model even though i was purchasing the CE; turns out, it is a cosmetic change.

    Handling is below par.

    The sales guy is arguing with me, the handling is great. Nonsense. I have been driving corollas all my life; this is the worst they have yet to produce. How come, ford focus, Elantra, mazda, civic have better steering.

    This is not asking for much and i know they change alter the programming.

    I am told i am looking for the XRS handling. Another nonsense, when entry level mazda 2 or Yaris/Echo has far better handling - What has toyota engineers been thinking.

    I walked away very depressed as i was 1 hour from signing the deal as it was conditional on the road test.

    Toyota, wake up. Listen to your loyal customers, you have lost a devoted fan today.
  • sajsansajsan Posts: 4
    edited March 2011
    I went to get my 5th corolla - yes - 5th corolla which is a record in 20 years.

    I am sorry to say, as a die hard toyota Corolla fan. They have lost it on this model. I walked away from a great deal on the following reason.

    The steering is completely useless. It is unsafe and dangerous to drive. Yes at low speeds i am not concerned, At higher speeds i expected the steering to tighten, it does NOT. It is very flimsy and you will tend to easily over correct. In case of highway winds we get here; you will be white knuckled and in snow even worst as you cannot safely predict the course; you cannot tell me having STAR system will assist you here.

    There is pronounced body roll. I was testing the S model even though i was purchasing the CE; turns out, it is a cosmetic change.

    Handling and performance is below par. I am not asking for much but at least the steering which is a major component of any car needs to be better designed. The sales guy is arguing with me, the handling is great.

    Nonsense. I have been driving corollas all my life; this is the worst they have yet to produce. I was there when because of taking Toyota to court in 2000, they admitted there was a suspension issue in all 1998-2001 models and would address all customers reporting this problem. No more, i did not want to become a casualty on the road with this one.

    How come, ford focus, Elantra, mazda, civic have better steering.

    This is not asking for much and i know they can alter alter the programming.

    I am told i am looking for the XRS handling. Another nonsense, when entry level mazda 2 or Yaris/Echo has far better handling - What has toyota engineers been thinking.

    I walked away very depressed as i walked away from signing a great deal which was conditional on the road test. I had repeatedly asked about the steering issue; ever one of their dealership said - there is no issue. When i showed them the TSB, they had no words to say.

    Toyota, wake up. Listen to your loyal customers, you have lost a devoted fan today.

    I will send a full letter of feedback and complaint to Toyota as we are a toyota family with over 30+ vehicles in the extended family and believe we have the right to address this grievance.
  • dchevdchev Posts: 38
    I recommend 2011 Toyota Corolla S. It is an excellent choice of contemporary vehicle......and I am not Toyota employee :)
    I have had a chance to drive for some time new 2004 Toyota RAV4, 2005 Solara, 2009 Matrix, 2010 Prius and now 2011 Corolla in the past several years, and I can say that 2011 Toyota Corolla is a very good ride. In addition, I like the refreshed styling of the car. It is true that transmission is 4 speed; however, I still get 32MPG average. I watched commercial on youtube.com for the new CVT-I 7speed transmission, but....well we do not have it in US. The new Corolla uses only synthetic engine oil 0W20.
    Drive it and enjoy it!
  • budarowbudarow Posts: 2
    Thanks for the information regarding the Corolla and EPS issue.

    Does anyone know which Vin Numbers have the faulty EPS computer (i.e., by default, which Vins may NOT have the faulty EPS)? Or possibly which production months do NOT have the faulty EPS?

    I've test driven several new 2010 Corolla S models and plan to purchase 1 next week providing the steering issue is indeed fixed at the factory during production and NOT after production. I really don't want to buy a brand new car only to have the entire dash torn apart to replace the EPS. Seems like a car with the dash torn down would be more likely to have "rattles" later on verses a car which has not had the dash torn down.

    I did notice that 1 test car (built in Canada in August 2010 and Vin Series 468,***) seems to have the EPS issue while another car (built in Canada in October 2010 and Vin Series 495,***) seemed to steer just fine (no wondering around).

    The car built in August 2010 was very hard to keep straight at 70 mph just like many others have said on this forum. I pretty much had to constantly keep "mico-adjusting" the wheel to stay in my lane so I'm guessing this car had the faulty EPS.

    Thanks,

    Budarow
  • mantechmantech Posts: 28
    Has anyone who heard a clunk,pop or knocking noise when turning the steering wheel tothe left or to the right? SEE Toyota Technical Service bulletin# TSB3248. My 2009 Matrix 1.8L has already experiencing this kind of problem. I went to the dealer and they quoted me nearly $450.00CAD with taxes. Badluck for me, because my ODO already passed the 60K basic warranty so Toyota won't covered this problem. Is this a new Toyota quality?I'm not expecting this kind of problem,
    usually steering shaft a trouble free. I guess not many Corolla/Matrix owner whot got this problem, that's why is not worth to send this issue as a recall. I will send a letter to Toyota Canada, just to let them know what kind of problem I'm having with. :cry:
  • mantechmantech Posts: 28
    Has anyone who heard a clunk,pop or knocking noise when turning the steering wheel tothe left or to the right? SEE Toyota Technical Service bulletin# TSB3248. My 2009 Matrix 1.8L has already experiencing this kind of problem. I went to the dealer and they quoted me nearly $450.00CAD with taxes. Badluck for me, because my ODO already passed the 60K basic warranty so Toyota won't covered this problem. Is this a new Toyota quality?I'm not expecting this kind of problem,
    usually steering shaft a trouble free. I guess not many Corolla/Matrix owner whot got this problem, that's why is not worth to send this issue as a recall. I will send a letter to Toyota Canada, just to let them know what kind of problem I'm having with. :cry:
  • pekelvrpekelvr Posts: 61
    I do not believe they use VIN #s to find the specific cars. The EPS issue just happened for certain years. My Corolla S is a 2010 model, but before that I had a 2008 model, same car different year though but the key is they both had the same problem which is the car cannot just stay moving forward in straight path and the driver has to over compensate in order to correct the car from veering off course. I would just assume your car will need the replacement EPS box or computer controller and ask the dealer to do it before you pick up the car. Then go drive it on a highway NOT on just city roads because you cannot produce the problem on city streets. The matter only happens when your oing like 50 mph. hope that helped!
  • budarowbudarow Posts: 2
    edited March 2011
    Thanks for the information. Looks like the EPS TSB was officially issued on 10/7/2010. As I said in my earlier post, the Corolla S manufactured in 10/2010 seemed to steer fine while the car built in 8/2010 had the steering issue.

    Maybe Toyota decided to use the better EPS computer in the cars built around the time the TSB was issued and afterwards?

    FYI, I called the Toyota dealership to find out how much of the car had to be torn-down to replace the EPS computer and the service dept. guy told me he never heard of the EPS/steering issue or the TSB (I provided the TSB number) on the Corolla and he's never replaced a EPS computer in the 10 years he's worked at this Toyota dealership. He also went through the "menu" of other things which could cause the care to track incorrectly to include tire pressure, alignment, etc. Either the guy is full of BSt or perhaps he's just the "oil change" guy.

    The EPS computer replacement must be VERY expensive to perform (parts and labor) because there seems to be a conspiracy among dealerships to avoid the repair even if confronted with the TSB information.

    Does anyone with a 2010 Corolla built in October of 2010 or later (in Canada) have the EPS/steering issue?

    Thanks Budarow
  • We bought 2 2010 Corolla's. The first was an LE, and the second an S. As many of you already know the only difference between the two cars is cosmetic and tire size since the LE came with 15" steel wheels. The LE had the steering problem from day one. We had test driven an identical LE with Firestone tires, and the delivered one with Goodyear tires. They disclosed that the car we were being delivered wasn't the car test driven after much of the paper work had been signed. We purchased the car over the weekend, so on Monday I took the car to the dealer to complain about the steering issue. I was told that it was just the difference in the tires that were on the two cars, but that since it was an issue they would order a set of new Firestone tires for the car. I opted to pay a little out of pocket and get a new set of Michelin tires instead. This didn't correct the steering issue. I later complained about the steering on a service appointment to which I was told there was nothing wrong with the car. I mentioned the TSB that stated to replace the steering computer and they were reluctant to complete the TSB, and it seemed that Toyota was reluctant to approve ESP computer replacements. When we received the car back from getting the new ESP computer the steering issue was still present so I called to complain. I was told that they had checked for codes on the computer and couldn't find anything wrong. I then requested that they drive it and an identically equipped 2010 from dealer stock and tell me that there wasn't as issue. I new it wasn't right because we already had the 2010 Corolla S and it didn't have the issue, and neither did the LE we test drove. After they did a comparison run, they agreed that something was wrong with our LE. 2 months later they had us bring the car back in for some diagnostic work to try and trouble shoot the problem. After several hours, and numerous different attempts to find the issue the engineers at Toyota told them to put a new EPS rack in the car. We were given the car back to drive while we waited for the new rack to arrive at the dealer. When the new rack arrived at the dealer they called us to bring the car in. We did so, and the steering is as good as the steering in a 2010 Corolla-Corolla XLE can be. (I assume that the steering in the XRS is different.)
  • pekelvrpekelvr Posts: 61
    I applaud your persistence and good for you! :) Earlier when I tried alerting everyone about the steering and EPS issue I said, dont take no for an answer. If you have to tell them like I did that they would hear from my attorney when I died in the car because they refused to fix the problem then and only then did the "new EPS box" all of a sudden appear and the rep directly from Toyota called my dealer and told them to order it and put in my car. Sometimes you have to get a little bit loud to be heard and after all isnt it the squeaky wheel in this case tires that get the grease or EPS..lol
  • wishin_4a_fordwishin_4a_ford Posts: 5
    edited March 2011
    LOL, I must agree. We were actually going through the EPS problem, and the gas pedal recall junk at the same time. After the gas pedal recall had been performed, and they were giving me crap about there being nothing wrong with the steering in the LE the service manager and myself actually ended up on the sales floor yelling at each other. They had written the work order for the replacement of the EPS computer as a goodwill item. I told them that since it was a TSB, and that the work order was a legal document that I would NOT sign it unless it was corrected. I felt that they were trying to make it look like they were going above and beyond by replacing parts that were good to try to satisfy us. This was NOT the case, and I was NOT going to sign a work order or any other document that could be used to twist the situation in such a manner. I was told that if I didn't sign the work order that they couldn't perform the work. I told him that I would sign a work order after it was corrected to state the actual situation, and he would not change it. I then told him not to worry about it, that we would continue to drive the vehicle, but that I found it funny that Toyota was so worried about taking care of the gas pedal recall when it was the steering that was going to get someone killed! I also told them that I was simply waiting for an accident to happen! I was going to sue not only Toyota for making the POS, but them for selling us a vehicle other than the one we had test driven, and not disclosing it until after a large portion of the paperwork was already signed, as well as them not trying to correct the steering issue in the first place. I also told the service manger that I would make sure that the service manager was personally named in the suit! The work order never did get corrected, but I never did sign it either!
  • sajsansajsan Posts: 4
    To my prior post of why i walked away from 2011 Corolla because of unsafe steering.

    I did get a great buy on 2008 Corolla CE; The steering and handling is superb and safe.

    Strangely enough, the manager of the dealership did not admit there was an issue; his response was - I have never heard of any issue regarding steering. Not just 1 but 2 dealerships said the same; 1 did say yes they were aware of it.

    Anyway, i have completed the letter of concern to Toyota both Japan & Canada; this cannot continue. I am a loyal Toyota customer but when the company does not respect our judgement, then why should we continue to buy their products and support them.

    Kudos to Lemon Aid guide for giving this a not recommended status due to steering issue.
  • sajsansajsan Posts: 4
    TSB is supposed to cover irrespective whether your car is in or out of warranty.
    For example, the engine tsb ECM module was out of warranty for most vehicles, they were done.
    I suggest that you call Toyota right away. If that does not work, you should send a registered letter to Toyota Japan.

    When i nearly lost my life due to a known suspension defect in 1999 corolla, i reported this issue to the newspapers, send a letter to the dept of transport, Insurance and Toyota Japan saying i was not liable if any one was killed due to this faulty vehicle.

    They did replace the entire suspension; i was the first one in north america to get the fix. They then had a secret tsb to fix if only customers complained.
  • mantechmantech Posts: 28
    Thanks for your suggestion, I will do that...
  • cynth1cynth1 Posts: 3
    I have been driving my 2009 Corolla S for over a couple of years now and yes, steering is a headache. I thought that if I kept the car, I would start liking it, but it never happened. Every single complaint about it's column mounted EPS is true! It is WOBLY, FLIMSY, LACK of staight line tracking, and yes you constantly need to do MICRO-adjusting when your driving at high speed. And if you drive a LOT of miles on the FREEEWAY, it is very tiring because you CONSTANTLY have to BABYSIT your steering. It makes driving not relaxing at all! It is too much EXTRA WORK for the driver..it is just too much menace! I don't know why I kept it for so long, but I am definitely going to another dealer to trade it in! It is so NOT worth keeping for all the aggravations you get out of driving it!!! Too all people who got this kind of Corolla, go ahead and keep on complaining and add it to you blogs. And to those who have already written to Toyota, kudos to all of you.
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