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Toyota Celica (Hatchbacks / All Years)

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  • Updates on service: I got a Toyota TrueStart battery a year ago and it is dead. They replaced it at no charge. Also, the serpentine belt is about two years old and started to show signs of cracking. I had it replaced at a cost of $180.

    I asked about the belt life and the service advisor asked about the car's mileage. I moved a few years ago, and now I am putting very little mileage on the car. Apparently the belt is not getting exercised enough. I also think it is possible that the battery is not getting charged during the short trips and this contributed to an early death.

    I think after six months I should remember to charge the battery fully, and perhaps that will help extend its life. I do not have much time for other things, and do not think I will have time for freeway trips just for the sake of exercising the car...

    Nowadays I spend very little on gasoline but am making up for the cost with other repairs.
  • Just purchased an 01 Celica for my daughter. The car's headlights, on low beam, are very weak, partially because they are not aimed very well. How do you aim the lamps, and is there a way to brighten the light coming out on low beam? On high beams the road is well lit.
  • i was wondering how much is it worth? how much would it be worth in the future?
  • Wear down after about 20K miles.

    When tires were new, the ride was fairly quiet, cornering was quick.

    After 10K miles, the tires are very noisy and harsh.

    The new BF Goodrich Super G Force tires are softer but much quieter, probably will last longer too.
  • i think the celica would be a lot better with the acura trans witch is actually possible makes me wonder is honda and toyota the same manufacturer? everything bolts on any body want to prove me wrong any who if you spend over 2 grand for suspension upgrades out does the celica than consider 2 grand in the motor on the celica would blast any honda bottom line celica has its own driving school how bout that honda
  • I was comparing acura rsx and civics to celica 00 my buddy from cali has civic and ihave an 01 celica out of dallas tx and i beat him on stock every thing rsx gets
  • jkonjkon Posts: 3
    I am looking for a service manual for a 2003 Celica GTS. Can anyone help please?

    Thanks.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    You can buy one from alldata, at the following web address.

    http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AFI~C8000~R0~OD~N/0/89012112/92870401
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Posts: 65
    I bought a CD ROM in eBay for $5. It had troubleshooting procedures for the entire electronic system and all mechanical drawings.

    Sorry file too large to email.

    Also check www.ALLNEWCELICA.ORG
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Posts: 65
    The Celica GTS is a more serious driver car than the RSX type S, even though the RSX has a bigger, more powerful engine etc...

    The GTS engine, transmission, steering, braking, suspension and overall system dynamics are just pure high-performance. The RSX has no electronic auto trans, so you have to push the stick to shift. Kind of lame.

    At least to me, the Celica's ergonomics is superior than the RSX. The Celica seats fit drivers better and are far more comfortable.
  • gjenngjenn Posts: 1
    edited April 2010
    do you really have to use high octane fuel or will regular work? what are the consequences?
  • Toyota spec says must use 91 Octane fuel. The engine is a higher compression engine. Lower octane fuel would ignite early, causing knocking and reduce power.

    Unclean burn also leaves residues in exhaust sensors, lighting up sensors' warnings. Typically the Catalytic converter sensor would warn of low cleaning efficiency.

    High-octane fuel would cost may be 10% more, but you should get at least 10% higher mileage out of it. Also, Toyota engineers know what the car must run on. If it could run on cheaper fuel, they would already specify it in.

    Every time I deviated from MFR recommendations, I got unknown problems later on.
  • You sound like you know a fair bit about these years of celicas. I own an 86' GT hatchback with the 2S-ELC engine, what can you tell me about this model. When I got the car last spring from a good friend($1000) he had just put in a crate engine(now has 5xxxkm), rebuilt tranny and he did a whole bunch of other stuff. It seems as if theres a draw on my battery even when the car is parked and not running. There are no lights staying on and no shorts that I can find, any ideas? its been a great car... reasonably quick and the 4-way independant suspension is great on curvy mountain roads. I love the car and would hate to sell it because I cant fix a simple problem. Any idea what these are worth in pretty good shape and less that 1/4 mill..km? I NEVER see them around. I know they are rare because the GT, ST161(chasis), 2S-ELC was only made in 1986 but just how rare are they?
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    You can narrow down the area of the drain by connecting an ammeter in series with one of the battery cables, and removing fuses one by one, until the drain stops. Since the problem exists when the key is off; most circuits will not be energized under that condition; so there are only a small number of circuits that might cause the problem. Once you find the circuit; it will be necessary to isolate, inspect and separately test all the components that are protected by that fuse.

    When doing current draw tests; it is important to bear in mind that the vehicle's computer is designed to draw a constant small current (less than 60 milliamps) at all times; to preserve the computer's volatile memory data. So you're always going to see at least that much of a draw. This computer draw will run the battery down in about 6 weeks to 3 months of storage; on a vehicle with no electrical problems. So it is just not like the good old days; when batteries held a charge much longer..

    The brake lights, cigarette lighter, possibly the radio, the security system, the 4 way flashers, interior lights (including the glove box light) and the headlights are the most likely suspects. Also, any add on electrical accessories might be connected to be live when the key is off.

    Another very common source of such drains is a shorted diode in the alternator. You can test for this while the ammeter is connected by disconnecting the heavy power cable to the alternator (being very careful to not let the metal teminal on the cable touch any metallic objects), and seeing whether that stops the drain. If it does; the alternator must be replaced. There is an epedemic of badly remanufactured alternators and starters on the market. I have become so fed up with having to remove and return newly purchased defective rebuilt alternators that I now only buy alternators and starters from NAPA parts stores. And I have none of those problems anymore.
  • I did not know that the comp. has a constant draw, is it possible that it could drain eough in less than 6 months? Ive heard that the connections in the starter are commonly burnt and dont make good connections, I took it appart and sure enough, burnt connectinons. Could the combination of the constant draw from the comp. and a poor connection in the starter be preventing the car from turning over. The car has aftermarket gages and it seems to need around 12.5V for it to turn over. My battery is new in sept. last year and is an energizer max with high cold crank amps. I will test my alternator, when I have the car running, it does provide a charge to my battery. Im quite sure that its not my accessories. Thanks for your help.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    The draw from the computer is guaranteed to run the battery flat in 6 months. In fact; it will probably do it in 4 or 5 months.

    Turn on the headlights; if the lights are dim or do not work; you'll need to have the battery charged. If the lights come on; try to start the car and see whether the lights dim or go out. If the lights dim or go out when trying the starter; the battery needs to be charged, or the battery cable clamps need to be removed and thoroughly cleaned. A tapered reamer type cable service tool is the best tool for this. And some almost invisible corrosion on battery cable clamps and posts will totally prevent the starter from running.

    If the lights stay bright at a time when the starter does not work; there is a relay called a starter relay, which is usually the problem. Despits what you have heard from the rumor mill; Toyota starters are some of the most long lasting and reliable starters in the industry. Burn marks notwithstanding.
  • I already have done the headlight test... I learnt the trick a long time ago. The lights did dim, therefore, when I was trying to start it, it was drawing electricity into the starter relay(solenoid), its often mounted directly on the starter but ford has a fire wall mounted design with a movable pole shoe starting motor and some imports have permanent magnet starters... diesels have gear reduction starters to provide more torque. My car has the solenoid on starter design(commonly seen in chevy's). I took my starter appart and the solenoid works fine but the secondary system which provides power to the starting motor had burnt connections and the starting motor wouldn't work. I cleaned the secondary connections and bench tested the starter, it worked like new. Is there anything I can do to keep those connections from getting burnt? some kind of highly conductive flux or something? I wont replace the starter because of this, it will have the same problem either way and its like $40 for me to completely rebuild my starter myself. Why would they get burnt to start with? too much current?
  • How rare are the 1986 Toyota Celica GT Hatchbacks w/ the 2S-ELC, SOHC, 2.0L and the 4-speed overdrive automatic tranny?
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 638
    The 2000 Celica has about 88,000 miles, and I am doing probably four thousand miles a year nowadays. The brakes (the first replacement set) were toast, and all were replaced including calipers. The water pump and serpentine went bad for the second time. Seems this pump needs replacing every forty-thousand miles. I would think they would put a beefier one in for this high compression engine. Perhaps they saved weight by skimping on the water pump also. I finally got tired of getting hit on the noggin so I had the hatchback shocks replaced. The driver's electronic door latch was starting to fail in cold weather and was replaced. This list cost $1520 from my new best-friend mechanic. (Dealer wanted $2700 after 10 % discount!)

    Years ago the moonroof was completely scratched up, and was completely fogged over by the free gas station car wash years ago. I did not know the effects of that big nylon bristle brush until 1 minute too late. I thought the moonroof would have to be replaced at a high cost, so I let it go. Since everything seemed to get fixed lately, I decided to investigate this. I bought the 3M Headlight Restoration kit. I started sanding the moonroof with the 300 grit, and had an "oh crap" moment. I did not really know if the severe sanding I had just done could be rubbed out. So I went through the next 4 steps on the area I had touched, and it ended up looking pretty good. I then applied only the last two steps (a gray buff pad and rubbing compound) to the rest of the moonroof. The result? a couple stains are left, and there are minor swirl marks throughout. But the entire piece is see-through again, and has something like 80% clarity. I could have sanded out the remnants of stains from bird droppings, and worked more on the swirl marks. However, I only have a 550 RPM drill. I think some of the swirls are left because of this - the slow drill grabbed the surface a little too much. So the result is a moonroof that looks decent and the small flaws resemble the rest of the ten year old car and would not stick out to anyone else.

    I would recommend the 3M kit to anyone for this purpose. I was terrified of sanding something on the car, but the kit works for the late-model plastic moonroof, and worked fine for a newbie with a slower drill, but lots of time and patience.

    The headlight lenses are a little fogged up, and since I had the kit out I applied the last stage of rubbing compound to the lens that was in the worse condition. After 1 minute, it looked better than the other lens. I repeated on the good lens. I am sure if I took the time to use all of the stages that the headlamps would look like brand new.

    A remaining "problem" - The fiberglass parts are de-laminating. My opinion is that Toyota used a clearcoat on the plastic, and the clearcoat expands at a different rate than the plastic part and the paint. This would explain bubbling on the side-mirrors, and near total de-lamination of the top of the spoiler. The bumpers have some spider cracks in them at this point. If you are not in a snowy climate you might never see something like this. If the heat alone in your area has the same bad effect, I would be curious to know about it.

    I could buy a new wing, front and rear bumpers, and perhaps paint them black. Most of the cost is labor of installation, so I it would probably be the right thing to do to buy new materials rather than re-use the old ones. In terms of color I think a match to the original red is futile and I think the car would look out of place if new paint on the plastics was too different a red tone from the rest of the metal paint. I do not have a good reason to address this today, so this repair will just be hanging out in the back of my mind.

    The car has new Bridgestone Blizzak's as of last winter, and new Bridgestone Potenza RE760's, the only 16" Summer Tire that Tirerack had.

    I can't complain - the car sounds and drives like brand new. Perhaps I will get a set of red customized mats from floor mat express sometime. I'm sick of paying $90 or so for factory mats that just shred like a chew toy with normal use.

    End Car Rant
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    The water pump life you described does not sound normal. This motor does not have significantly higher compression than many other motors that are out there. I assume your 2000 Celica has the 6th generation 5S-FE (also designated as ST-204) motor. This motor has a 9.5-1 compression ratio; which is very much middle of the road as compression ratios go. By comparison; many BMW's have 11-1 compression ratios (and the 1998 only Celica 3S-GE (ST-202) motor had an 11-1 compression ratio; along with 200 HP and a 7,000RPM power peak. By comparison; your motor has been detuned to meet emission standards; and produces about 135 HP and has a 5,400 RPM power peak. So if you inferred that the compression ratio on your motor produces a quicker than normal throttle response, which is stressing the water pump; this simply is not true.

    However; if the belt tension is adjusted too tight; that will significantly shorten the life of the water pump bearings. So will using low quality coolant, or using coolant mixed with tap water (rather than the distilled water recommended by Toyota), or using coolant mixed in less than 40% proportion. Some coolant available today comes pre-mixed with 50% water. If you bought that type of coolant; and then mixed it with equal amounts of water; it would shorten the life of the water pump.

    Some aftermarket water pump brands do not meet Toyota's quality standards. These pumps will not last as long as the original part.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 638
    edited June 2011
    The motor for my 2000 GTS is the 2ZZ-GE = 11.5:1 compression. (The GT engine is 1ZZ-FE which I think is 10:1???)

    I thought the heat the engine produces may be greater as a result of the compression, and strain the pump more, but I was just guessing. More along the lines of your suggestion of a fast throttle response, the response of this motor is huge, and I think the peak power is at 8400 RPM. So is the problem as straightforward as the pressure on the pump's parts during fast acceleration through the high RPM range?

    2ZZ-GE Power Graph

    Neither the dealer nor my new mechanic were surprised at 40,000 mile replacements for the water pump. Apparently I was the only one saying, "What the heck people????*@($))!#^! This is one cool car, and spectacular engine, but a handful of things have been somewhat quirky!

    I originally suspected belt tensioner problems for this model, but I was probably unduly scared by a TSB that exists for it. The mechanics, both Toyota and independent had no concerns about particular problems with the tensioner.

    The first pump replacement was OEM and done by Toyota. With its short life, and the cost of repairs at Toyota getting out of hand for a 10-year old car, I went with another mechanic. I do not know if he used an OEM part or not, but for the low cost I am fine with either and would consider an aftermarket pump to be a neat experiment at this point.

    Up until now I always had flushes done at the dealer, which I trusted for various reasons, so I think they would follow the recommendations for coolant and water. At what point in history did the car companies figure out that minerals in water caused problems in the engine, and start recommending distilled water?
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Thank you for the updated information. It was not previously clear to me that you had a GTS. You might be interested in the following article; which explains the TSB Toyota issued in late 2002 for defective "lift bolts" on the 2ZZ-GE motor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_ZZ_engine#2ZZ-GE This is a relatively straighforward fix; which could produce a big performance boost if your bolts are bad.

    The article also goes into detail on the many different rev limits which were used on different model applications for this motor. The article states that your particular motor is rev limited at between 7,900 and 8,200; depending on model year. You may notice that the dyno graph you posted shows the stock 2ZZ-GE motor having a power peak of 162 Hp@7500 RPM.

    In general; motors which are tuned to run at high RPM generate LESS cooling system heat than similar motors tuned for lower speeds. But heat would not be an issue in a water pump failure, anyway. Now that I realize this motor was designed by Yamaha; I am not surprised at the pump failures (nor the lift bolt failures). Yamaha has always been known for focussing their efforts on power; and compromising on quality control and long term reliability. Considering the number of oil pump failures in this motor when running at very high RPMs; I would say that the low RPM limit on your motor is a blessing in disguise.
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Posts: 65
    Actually Toyota manufactures this 2ZZ engine. They ship the engine to Yamaha to assemble the high-speed cam shaft and valve assembly on. The head had the name Yamaha embossed on it.

    To make possible the high-rev and quick response, this head was designed with a hollow cam shaft with 2 sets of lobes. It also has many linear moving parts, like valve stems, made with Titanium instead of steel to reduce moving mass.

    The engine in Lexus LF-A also has a Yamaha head with similar concepts.
  • tgeentgeen Posts: 20
    edited June 2011
    I've had a 2000 GTS for eleven years now, and 210,000 miles. The 2zz engine and 6MT gearbox have never given me any trouble. The original clutch went out at 205,000 miles. Otherwise it has been a reliable drivetrain for everyday commuting, with normal upkeep like fluid changes. But I've never raced it or abused it.

    It's no longer my primary car, but I still use it regularly for commuting and trips to the dog park. So, I rarely take the fancy valvetrain into high lift territory anymore, which I'm sure would be speeding up the wear and tear on everything.

    I'm not a huge fan of these variable lift valve systems like Honda's VTEC (and this one) because they tend to look better on paper than they drive on the street. They make for an exciting test drive. But after the honeymoon is over you still have to get to work at normal speeds, get groceries, and all that other mundane stuff. It's like choosing someone to marry--the hot first dates are not always the ones you want to be stuck living with in five years. Many times I have wished for an extra 10 lb-ft of torque at the low end, rather than that extra 40hp on the top end, which I can almost never use. But, at least it seems durable enough in normal use.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 638
    Driving home today in 90° weather I was reminded of the drop in power at high temperatures. Ugh. Feel a little dead to you people under the same conditions? The drop is most noticeable from a start, reminding me, like tgreen implied, that a little more torque would be nice.

    I also felt the 6-speed was a good short-term girlfriend, and that a 5-speed would be more appropriate for this car's power curve. But after ten years I still look at this car as very unique, especially compared to the variety of cars that are out there today.
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    One more 2000 GTS owner here. I am a bit over 100,000, with less than 3k added each year. Overall, the car has served me well, though I'm looking to sell mine and get something new in 2012, given life style changes over recent years (translation: baby).

    I definitely agree with your statement about the VVT. I very rarely go over 6k RPM nowadays. Frankly, I should go over more often, just to allow the engine to "stretch its legs."

    I tend to get a fairly lousy 20 mpg, though my driving is entirely stop and go, including through parking garages with stop signs every 10 feet. My other big complaint is that serpentine belt / tensioner / whatever is causing that annoying whinnying noise. I've had the TSB performed several years ago, but the noise seems to come back and require re-servicing / replacement about annually.
  • tgeentgeen Posts: 20
    20 mpg seems very low for this car, in my experience. With the 6MT in routine city commuting (20 mile stop-n-go freeway/surface each way) I have been getting 27-29 mpg per tank, for years. The only time I've seen the low 20s was when I lived in a cold climate and the engine was cold all the time. Do you have a CEL on?

    I would not want to try messing around with baby seats in the rear of a Celica. Get something with four doors. When the baby turns 18, you are entitled to your midlife crisis car and you can get whatever you want then. Hopefully someone will still be making a car with a manual transmission in 2029.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 638
    I just replaced the air filter with an STP from Autozone. I did not see a directional flow arrow, nor notice a difference in the appearance of each side of the filter. Can anyone confirm that the modern STP filter can be installed in any orientation, up/down and left/right?

    My experience with MPG is the same as Gambit. From day one I have gotten about 27-29 MPG. I have been using the AC constantly this summer and I think the number is closer to 25 MPG as a result.
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Posts: 65
    Bought 6 from Amazon for $1.50 each. Brand Hella model H3, part number 8GH 002 090-131, made in Germany, rated 12V 50W.

    You can replace the lamp fairly easily. Not sure how much the dealers charge, probably $200 for 2 hours labor plus $25 for the lamp. You can thus save money with this 20-minute procedure:

    1. Drive the car's front wheels up a ramp, could be 3 2x4" studs nailed together for about 5 more inches of clearance.

    2. Undo the plastic bottom cover near the fog lamp, 2 bolts and a few plastic snap ons.

    3. While pulling the cover down, insert your hand behind the fog lamp module, twist CCW a round cap which is concentric and behind the fog lamp lens.

    4. Reach inside the lamp module, undo a wire spring latch and remove the lamp.

    5. Pull the lamp's terminal from its socket.

    6. Install the new lamp in reverse order, take care not to touch the halogen bulb as finger grease will crack the lamp early. Rotate the lamp base until it seats properly in the cavity and secure the spring latch. Also good but optional to add a little contact grease to the lamp terminal before inserting it in socket.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 638
    I should probably re-check this. I'm looking at a pic of the filter online and it seems to have a thick rim only on the top, allowing only a one-way install. I did the install and it was probably correct. I think I was a little out of it as I nearly sweat to death on that day, from the heat outside topped with the heat under the hood.
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