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Land Rover LR4

2

Comments

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Posts: 2,197
    Congratulations. I can only warn you that once you own a LR you will always own one. Enjoy!
  • jwscfajwscfa Posts: 4
    On February 17th of this year I took delivery of a 2010 LR4 HSE with the Lux Plus Package. On February 23rd the vehicle would not start and was flat bedded back to the selling dealer for two days to diagnose and replace the brake switch. The warning on the dash said "place foot on brake" while my foot was on the brake. On March 3rd the same problem occurred resulting in the service manager of the selling dealer coming to my house and adjusting the brake switch. Apparently it was not reading adequate vacuum pressure in the brake system. In addition to this problem I experienced many of the same issues noted on this forum with satellite radio reception problems, incorrect satellite radio displays, uneven steering wheel heating and calculation problems with the guidance system unable to read the amount of fuel in the tank when it was full.

    On March 29th while driving I got 4 fault codes-transmission fault,parking brake fault, emergency brake assist not available and stability control not available-drive carefully. I drove the car home and it once again was sent by flat bed back to the selling dealer. After keeping my vehicle for 3.5 days I received a call from the service manager. He stated that most of the minor issues would be fixed with a software upgrade due to come out in a month. He also stated that they had not been able to replicate the fault codes and Land Rover had instructed them to return the vehicle to me. The vehicle had 1601 miles when it went back to the dealer.

    I documented each of these issues with digital camera photos which I provided to the dealer. Some of these issues may seem minor and I would not dispute that but for $60k I think you have the right to be a little picky. However having two major service issues within a month and a half with one of them being a major safety issue was too much for me. The fact that made up my mind about the quality of the car was when Land Rover would not acknowledge that the car even had a problem even though it was documented with pictures. I think my selling dealer did all they could to correct the issue but got little support from the factory. Basically here is a vehicle with a major safety problem that Land Rover is unwilling to acknowledge and is willing to put this car back on the road. They have a car that they cannot fix so their response was to send the car back to the owner. This is totally unacceptable from a safety standpoint and I traded the vehicle for another brand.

    I feel everyone should be aware of how Land Rover is not facing up to service issues with this vehicle and I would strongly recommend against anyone purchasing any vehicle from a manufacturer such as Land Rover who has this attitude toward service and safety issues with their vehicles.
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    That's an odd one to be sure. I think your problem is more with the dealer than with the truck. Try another dealer for service.
    Remember the LR4 is just a refreshed LR3. It's a fairly mature platform that will deliver years of fun for you but I hope this one experience doesn't sour you on it.
    Sounds like they're just blaming software for what is probably a faulty sensor. Did they check the parking brake sensor? I'd definitely want a good mechanic to sit down with me and have a go-over with what is bothering me mechanically about the truck.

    Over the past four years I've had my share of good and bad dealers. I now drive an hour to get to a dealer that has one of the best LR mechanics in the country. Seiously, this guy teaches other mechanics.

    You have got to find that good second opinion.

    On the other hand you may have a really rare lemon. I've heard of one case where a short in the harness caused all sorts of issues and my dealer (the one with the awesome tech) replaced the womans truck with a new one. Head office directed the dealership to replace all the wiring in the truck, which required about 90% complete disassembly of the truck. They said when that was done, the truck never came back with any gremlins-and it was the awesome mechanic who took it apart and put it back together again.

    Not saying what you have is that bad-it just sounds like a bad sensor and an inexperienced mechanic. Get that second opinion from another dealer -- preferrably one that comes recommended. Make sure you tell them the history and that you expect it to be fixed or replaced. You shouldn't have to put up with bad service.
  • jwscfajwscfa Posts: 4
    There are a couple of clarifications that I think I should make. First, it was Land Rover tech support's determination that the car should be returned to me, not the dealer. Because of this I do not blame the dealer but rather the attitude of the manufacturer. As to finding another mechanic while the car is under warranty, if Land Rover was not going to believe my photo documentation of the fault codes why would they believe another mechanic? The nearest Land Rover dealer to me is over 2 hours away and I do not have the time to drive to each one to see if they can fix the problem. Finally the issue is moot as the dealer replaced the car with another brand from their family of dealerships. The dealership did what it took to make the situation right, not Land Rover. It is now not my problem but be aware if you are looking to purchase a used 2010 LR4 with under 2000 miles in Nara Bronze in the Southeast U.S.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Posts: 2,197
    There is a software enhancement coming in the next few weeks that will solve your issues
  • Thanks. I think you are correct - i hope to be a "rover" for quite some time.
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    That's really a shame that you had to go that route. Personally, I would have escalated within LR NA.

    Only having one dealer within reasonable range is certainly a limiting factor in your case. Do you mind me asking what other vehicle you got into?

    I currently own 6 Land Rovers of various vintages, and have never had a service issue like you describe. (I purposely don't say 'dealer' or 'technical' as each of them are subjective).

    The most modern of my Rovers are 2 1994's (A Range Rover and a Defender NAS) and a 2006 LR3 HSE, which is getting replaced this coming fall with a 2011 LR4. (My other vehicles are a 1959 Series 2 5dr station wagon, a 1968 Series 2A Dormobile and a 1983 Series 3 LWB Military pickup truck.)

    I had a few good dialogs with LR over the years about the design of the sensor system in the LR3, but I didn't get to them by just asking.. I had to press my case for a redesign on the sensors for the suspension system. I have a background in electronics engineering, and currently work in the IT field. I had a look at the wiring system in the LR3 (which is available publicly, BTW) and recommended that they change it to a 2-factor sensor system.

    I had previously had a few instances where the system would tell me I had a suspension fault and that I should pull over ASAP. Then it would drop me to the bump stops. For a normal person this would mean a call to the towing service and a trip to the dealer. Well, I hate that. So I found out how to reset the fault system on an LR3. It's a little involved, and I won't get into the specifics here, but suffice it to say, it's never failed to get my truck back on it's feet. According to the docs, if there is a legitimate fault, it won't recover.. If it's a flaky sensor or frost, or a computer hiccup, resetting the fault system will allow you to recover and be on your way.

    This led me to think that there was a way to improve the sensor system. I proposed they set up two sensors on the suspension system. If both of the sensors found an error, then you had a legitimate fault. If only one had a fault, then you've got a faulty sensor or a computer glitch. Log it, and report that you may have a sensor or computer issue, but don't ground the truck.

    I haven't heard back if they've incorporated my suggestion into the new design, but they were at least receptive to it when I submitted it to LR engineering in the UK.
  • jwscfajwscfa Posts: 4
    edited April 2010
    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The dealer traded me into a 2010 Lexus GX 460 which has been flawless so far. I agree that sensors in modern cars are a problem depending upon design, etc but how is anyone to know if it is the sensor or a true mechanical fault? I would hate to be cruising into a corner and the stability system die on me. I probably could have escalated the issue within LR given my photographic evidence but I needed a vehicle that I could depend upon for day to day driving and given the distances involved it was just not worth the time and effort. I hope your new LR4 that you are purchasing is a good vehicle. I certainly wanted my vehicle to work out as I truly liked the LR4 when it was functioning correctly. However having driven the Lexus it seems to be a far superior vehicle in terms of functionality than the LR.
  • Isn't Lexus a Toyota? Now there is an honest company as we find out, yikes...
    Having car problems really is aggravating..I have had my share as well - from Jeep (had one replaced) to Mercedes (bad transmission with less than 2,000 miles on it).
    I hope your replacement goes better.
    So far my new LR4 is everything and more that I wanted - a luxury SUV.
  • lhr7lhr7 Posts: 11
    You purchased a 2010 Lexus GX 460? You do realize that Toyota/Lexus has just stopped selling that vehicle due to concerns that it flips over to easily. I understand that you may have some problems with your LR4. But, I have owned two different models of LR3s (both models are less then 4 years old), I have to say I have pretty decent luck with my dealers taking care of any issues. Did you get some bad gas? I have seen cheap gas cause the computer to believe it was misfirings, when it really wasn't? They are very sensitive when it comes to gas.

    However, if your dealer is as great as you say...you may want to talk with them about switching to a different vehicle for your family's safety. The last thing you need is to see someone hurt because the Lexus flipped due to being to top heavy.
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    Well, the LX460 compares more with a Range Rover than an LR4. (price and performance-wise) Prices around here are 10-15$k more for a basic LX460 than for a loaded LR4, so I guess they must have upsold you into it.

    It all comes down to lifestyle. When I was shopping for my LR3, we were hemming and hawing between the LR3 HSE and a Porsche Cayenne S.

    My wife asks me a very simple question:
    Since we camp a lot, would you feel bad if you scratched the paint on the Porsche while out in the bush, or scratched it up going over some logs or rocks?

    Answer: heck yeah, it's a Porsche. It's supposed to look pretty.

    Would you feel bad about scratching the Land Rover?

    Answer: Heck no, that's what a Land Rover is for. Scratches make for interesting stories to tell how you got them when sitting around the campfire.

    Final Answer: We got a Land Rover.
    (And we try to scratch it as much as possible - but found out that LR puts so many coats on paint on them, that we haven't been able to damage it yet doing our usual activities.)
  • 8319683196 Posts: 2
    I am shopping prices on the LR4 and found an HSE plus 7 seat w/20" wheels. The dealer is willing to drop $2500 off MSRP. I am also trading in my Lexus lx470, which is where they should be able to make some money. I am also paying cash for the difference. Does paying cash make any difference to the dealer? I believe they have manuf to dealer incentives for financing, so maybe that won't work in my favor. I really liked the loaded HSE Lux but he wouldn't come down further than $2500 off and seemed offended when I asked. Any thoughts?
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Posts: 2,197
    With the current supply/demand situation I am quite surprised he came down $2500. Is it a retired service loaner? In normal situation cash or finance makes no difference to the sales department. The finance incentive (and by the way it is 2.9% for 60 months and less for shorter terms) belongs to the finance department. The trade is in reality a separate transaction and the dealer does not count what he may or may not make on the trade as part of your deal.
  • 8319683196 Posts: 2
    Thanks for the info. New, not a loaner so I guess I'll go for that one which really has all I need anyhow. Not a huge difference in the LUX, especially with black interior.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Posts: 2,197
    Might I ask where you live?
  • Hello all, I'm new to the forum. I've been a Jeep guy all my life and my past 3 cars have been the past 3 generations of the Grand Cherokee, most recently a 2009 Overland with the Hemi V-8.

    With a growing family we decided to step my wife into a larger car. We debated between the LR4, the MBGL350, and the AudiQ7. We finally decided to go with the LR4 although we were a bit nervous to do so given Land Rover's reputation for having reliability issues.

    To make a long story short, we took delivery of a 2010 LR4 Lux Plus today. Beautiful car! We drove off the dealers lot and honest to god, did not make it a mile before the check engine light turned on. We turned around, went back to the dealer, and the salesmen couldn't find any easily reversible problems to clear the light (eg: loose gas cap). Since the service department had already closed, we had to leave the LR4 behind. The sad part is that we live a good 1.5 hours from the dealership so we made the drive for nothing!

    In summary, the 3.3 miles that we put on our new LR4 today were nice. Unfortunately it seems that the horror stories that I have read about regarding reliability may be true. I'll post an update when I get a verdict as to what is wrong with the brand new car and will also post an update as to how my dealer handles the situation. Stay tuned!
  • Not a good start, however...
    I have owned a LR4 for about 7 months and I couldn't be happier. My wife has been driving it for the past two months because she had a BMW and during a flood it destroyed the engine (2010).
    Other than initially i had a tire sensor malfunction (seems all makes have this -- did they ever think it got below 32 degrees and the tire pressure goes lower..). That is it. I love the vehicle and have and will recommend to friends.

    One thing is don't compare to the BMW; Mercedes or Audi. This is a TRUCK not a hybrid or crossover. You made a great choice and i am confident the engine light snafu is just that...
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    That's certainly one for the record books.

    It must have smelled the Jeep on you! Seriously though, I've never had any issues with my LR3 over the past 4 years that has scared me away from them - we love ours so much we are taking delivery of our 2011 LR4 in a few weeks.

    That being said, it has not been a completely painless four years. We have had the suspension fault messages a few times, but have never been stranded because of it (thanks to an offroad driving instructor's tip on how to reset the fault system), and we had the sunroof refuse to open once which required a trip to the dealer to correct.

    Then there was the one time where it poured a ton of water on my wife in the backseat - something about the sunroof drain channel backing up?

    But we love our truck, and it has given us four years of fun with our dogs and our son - he loves it too - "Momma's truck" he calls it.. ("Dahdah's truck" is a bright yellow Defender 90 softtop)

    All in all, it's been a fun-filled four years with lots of good memories from camping and offroading to continent-wide roadtrips.
  • Thanks for the reply's. They are somewhat comforting. It was definitely bad timing - with us already going in a little apprehensive regarding Land Rover's reliability history, and then with the engine light coming on right after we drive the car off the lot. Hopefully its just a small, easily correctable thing.

    If this car holds up, I really do think that we're going to enjoy it. There's really nothing else out there that we could find that combines its practicality in terms of available cargo space, comfortable seating for 7, unique ability to be a comfortable highway cruiser without sacrificing off road ability, all with an overall feel of luxury.

    In terms of luxury, at this price point, we were slightly disappointed with the quality of the leather (we even got the upgraded leather), the lack of sirius traffic, the lack of wireless headphones for the rear seat entertainment system, and the small size of the navigation screen - perhaps though the money went towards the terrain select system and other off road gadgets that make this truck unique.

    Anyway, hopefully we'll have a better idea of what's going on tomorrow, when the service area opens. I'll keep you posted.
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    I hate to see someone go through that - it would take the shine off a whole bunch on the new car.

    Like I said, I never had anything really serious happen to the truck - much less than my other north american brands cars..

    The price of the LR4 is probably in the terrain systems and the chassis... It does have two chassis after all!

    You didn't mention where you lived, but if you're anywhere near where they use salt on the roads, I'd think about getting one of those electronic rust protection things. And get it sprayed every year with oil..

    The LR3 has a few weak spots when it comes to rust - the rear crossmember under the plastic panel. The front two horns where the engine mounts up - a few other spots... I imagine the LR4 has the same weak spots.

    I'm thinking I want to get the chassis sprayed with Waxoyl if I can find a place that does it around here.
  • So today we got an answer. Looks like it wasn't a Land Rover quality issue afterall. Apparently a "rodent" chewed through the wires to the knock sensor. Luckily the "rodent" got full after eating the wire and it doesn't appear that any other damage was done. Sensor has been replaced and the LR4 is reportedly doing well. Now just gotta find time to drive the 1.5-2 hours back to the dealer to pick it up....I guess I feel better now about the LR4...I think...
  • Perhaps a "rodent"...or perhaps wasnt wired correctly to begin with. Hopefully the snafu is fixed and you can start enjoying your LR4.

    Again i can't say enough good things about our 2010, especially the evening we got almost 6" rain and my rover impressed the neighborhood while going thru water half way up the doors! i was impressed as were others...bring on winter!

    good luck - chances are you will be a rover buyer for life!
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    edited September 2010
    Reminds me of the Colorado blizzard a few years back. They had a news report about how all the roads were closed and there was so much snow on the ground you couldn't move...

    My wife was sitting with me in the waiting area of the local LR dealer with some other die-hards. On the TV was the CNN Weather Alert updates for the blizzard. She says: "I don't know about you guys, but that looks like it would be fun!"

    Lots of grins all-round.

    Another comment was: "Funny how when the roads all get blocked up, a Land rover driver will find an excuse to drive 20 miles to get milk in the middle of a blizzard"

    BTW, we weren't there because it had broken down - it was just a regular maintenance visit!
  • drlagsdrlags Posts: 1
    edited September 2010
    any thoughts on buying new or slightly used 2010's ( i live in western PA) vs. 2011 as far as saving money? I hate paying for the drive off the lot immediate depreciation. As far as i can tell there is no real difference in the 2010 and 2011 models....any good internet sources in searching out the 2010's?.....
  • I have a new LR4 with just over 3k miles on it. My tire sensor warning light came on about 2 months ago took it to dealer and it was a computer issue requiring them to keep vehicle 4 days. about a month ago, my wife got rear ended causing almost 7K damage. Got vehicle back and tire sensor issues again including the spare. Since these problems happened once before the accident, doubt they are accident related. Anyone with similar problems. FYI, tire pressures are fine.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited September 2010
    I test drove an LR4 yesterday and fell in love with it. It really has everything my wife and I are looking for in a new family vehicle.

    After the test drive however, I opened the hood (bonnet?) to look at the engine compartment - and opened a can of worms.

    You see, I'm an enthusiast, and I like to maintain my own cars. I replace the fluids more frequently than scheduled, change my own brake pads/rotors, etc. Anyways, I was surprised to learn that not only does the LR4 engine not have a oil level dipstick, it doesn't have a drain either. Probing the salesperson further, he told me that the transmission also doesn't have a dipstick - lifetime fluid. He didn't know where the spark plugs/coils or the brake fluid reservoir are located either.

    Like some others here I'm sure, I want to buy a vehicle that I will keep beyond the warranty period. In my opinion, the only way to do this is to change fluids regularly - and more frequently than the factory interval. I thought Land Rover made vehicles for enthusiasts, but maybe they've gone the way of BMW and now cater to hands-off urban dwellers who prefer to pay shop rates for simple maintenance?

    Can anyone here confirm that the LR4 engine bay really is that hands-off to shade tree mechanic owners? If I can't change my own engine oil or flush my own transmission and brake fluid, it'll very likely be a deal breaker for me.
  • Leaies and Gents,

    I fell in love with LR4 V6 4 Liter (new 2010), but just saw an MB R350 4Matic whcih is pre-owned therefore the Value for Money is high specially the Badge at R350 is lot stronger.

    In a fix now, what to go for LR4 (2010 - New) or preowned Mercedes Benz R350 4Matic

    need help in deciding.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Huh?

    You're comparing a new V8 truck to a used V6 minivan?
  • It's true there is no drain plug for the oil...you change the oil by suctioning it out using a $40 pump that you can buy just about anywhere. This makes for the easiest oil change I have ever performed. No need to get under the truck and honestly did not get a single drop of oil on me during my last DIY change.
  • i had a similar issue with a tire sensor. it ended up being replaced (not computer system but the sensor within the tire) and i haven't had an issue since.

    BTW...we also have a bmw that continuously has a tire sensor alert when the temps dip below freezing...pain in the butt!
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