Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Brand Problems Swept Under The Rug

13536373840

Comments

  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    Not to mention IIHS hasn't even tested half the models out there yet, so many Toyotas were not even eligible.

    Where is the "roll eyes" emotorcon?


    "Toyota was notified in January that roof strength would be a new test. The IIHS asked automakers to flag any vehicles they'd like to have included. Toyota had plenty of opportunity to flag other Toyota, Lexus or Scion models — including being present at roof strength tests at the IIHS facility — but choose not to. So IIHS assumed that there were no models that met the new guidelines. If there are other vehicles Toyota would want to include they were able to submit them at that time or at any time in the process — including right now."

    indeed where is the "roll eyes" emotorcon?

    http://jalopnik.com/5407648/iihs-fires-back-tells-toyota-to-put-cars-where-its-m- outh-is
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That still doesn't mean they failed the test.

    You know what they say about the word "assume".
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Plus it should be noted that the IIHS uses a Good-Acceptable-Marginal-Poor rating scheme for all of its tests, including the new roof strength test. A "fail" in my mind would mean Poor, Yet, the majority of vehicles tested so far scored a Good or Acceptable, including the ones not specifically submitted for testing by the manufacturers:

    Midsize moderately priced cars (Camry leads this list.)

    Small SUVs

    Minicars
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yaris leads the Minicars list as well.

    Camry gets a Good on everything except the headrests, and they're in the process of adding those (Sienna got it this year).

    I wouldn't bet against the Camry making it on the 2011 Top Safety Picks list.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    That still doesn't mean they failed the test.

    You know what they say about the word "assume".


    actually, much like an exam, if you dont show up you fail. Face it...toyota knew they would fail and figured it would be much easier crying foul from the sidelines. If toyota was so sure they could pass they would have flagged their cars to be tested. :cry: :cry: :cry:
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Not necessarily -- it could mean the marketing (or accounting) people won out over the engineers.

    We shall see in the near future -- I'd bet the engineers will have their way now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I disagree. This situation is different.

    It's like being a straight A student, then they add one new course requirement after you earned your diploma and graduated with honors (the 2009 Top Safety Pick award).
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    well that is a nice spin on things, but if this were true then nobody would have passed the testing. instead we have toyota crying that the rules changed :cry: .I got bad news for you...they changed for everybody
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Good thing they had 5 models make the list, then. ;)

    Ford 6, Toyota 5.

    But wait, what's this? Headline from Automotive News, today in fact (timing is everything):

    Geely, Ford agree on Volvo intellectual property

    The deal is being finalized, and if so Ford is down to having...the Taurus and MKS.

    Toyota 5, Ford 2.

    And the Camry is an active headrest away from being added to that list.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    It is still a mere Camry. A very blah vehicle with nothing to excite the driver. Thankfully now it is safe. Though I question the whole headrest thing. I just do not get all the building a fortress of air bags around myself. It gives people a false sense of security. You hit a bank or a tree at slow speed you still go to the hospital. You crash at high speed with the throttle wide open you burn to a crisp. No thanks give me a big substantial vehicle to drive. I will match up your Camry to my Sequoia in a crash test at any angle.
  • gagrice, that's the way to tell 'em! Don't give an inch!

    I rented a white '09 Toyota Camry at Sea-Tac this past summer. After dealing with Budget's incompetence in just getting me the right car to go with the right paperwork, I was off in to the Seattle traffic.

    The white '09 Camry actually carted me along in an enjoyable manner through the moist Emerald City. I felt safe on slower-speed roads, but at freeway speeds I did not like the way it handled, steering was awkward and the car felt "floaty". Not dangerously "floaty" just annoyingly floaty.

    Little did I know that my accelerator could've become stuck wide open at any time.
    Am I being unfair to think that, do ya'all think? From the material we've had to read in the past month or 6 weeks you couldn't argue with that fear-ish statement.

    Could you? :)

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    Little did I know that my accelerator could've become stuck wide open at any time.
    Am I being unfair to think that, do ya'all think? From the material we've had to read in the past month or 6 weeks you couldn't argue with that fear-ish statement.


    Only if some knucklehead did not secure the mats or decided to put in two or more mats.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    You hit a bank or a tree at slow speed you still go to the hospital.

    If you're wearing seat belts as you should, the likelihood of injuries at low speeds is very low. Airbags themselves can cause injuries, so no need for them to inflate when not required. Besides, Tiger's injuries apparently were inflicted by his enraged wife.

    I happen to like my Camrys and prefer driving them to lumbering SUVs. I feel they're big enough for safety, not like tiny cars such as the Smart or even the Yaris and Fit.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Little did I know that my accelerator could've become stuck wide open at any time.
    Am I being unfair to think that, do ya'all think? From the material we've had to read in the past month or 6 weeks you couldn't argue with that fear-ish statement.


    I'm be more fearful of the guy in the lane next to me being high or having pulled an all-nighter. Only a very small percentage of crashes are caused by vehicular malfunction.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    September 24, 2009, 2:13 pm Headlights are failing on some 2006, above, and 2007 Toyota Prius hybrids.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has decided that the failure of high-intensity-discharge headlights on what could be more than 100,000 Toyota Prius hybrids did not require a recall. The agency also closed its investigation before Toyota provided all the documentation the agency said it needed to study the issue, a decision one safety expert said was unusual. The agency began its investigation in April after receiving about 340 reports of headlight failures in 2006-7 model, including 112 reports in which owners reported losing illumination from both headlights while driving. During the investigation, the agency found there had been about 2,200 consumer complaints about the headlights failing and Toyota had received about 27,600 warranty claims on the issue. Agency documents showed more than 100,000 vehicles might have been affected. There were no reports of injuries or crashes.

    This is an ongoing problem with Toyota's using HID lights.

    Consumers filing complaints on the agency’s Web site said repair costs had ranged from $300 to $1,000. Failures occurred on vehicles with as little as 25,000 miles. The automaker is also facing a class-action suit over the headlamp failures. The suit was brought by Carlos Collado, a Prius owner, from Kent, N.Y. Filed in United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, the suit said that Toyota had long known there was a safety problem with headlights, which “sporadically stop working” and are expensive to repair, yet the company failed to warn consumers.
    In court filings Toyota’s lawyers have denied the assertions. They note that before H.I.D. headlights fail they usually begin to flicker, thus providing a warning. They have also said it is unreasonable to expect the headlights to last for the vehicle’s life any more than regular halogen headlights do.


    The replacement bulbs for my Sequoia are $9.95. Most Prius owner complaints I have read claim $900 to replace the HIDs that don't last as long as the Halogens. Toyota needs to replace those HID systems with standard type halogen lights and quit shuffling the problem under the rug. Even the Greenies are complaining about their beloved Prius.

    Toyota stung by possible Prius HID headlight defect

    We'd wager that the last thing Toyota wants in the midst of the super-important launch of its new third-generation Prius is a negative stigma attached to the previous model. Unfortunately, that's exactly what the Japanese automaker may have on its hands right now as a number of owners of 2005-2008 Toyota Prius hybrids with the "high-intensity discharge" (HID) headlight option are banding together on online forums, message boards and in possible class action lawsuits against the automaker in relation to failing headlamps.

    According to Advertising Age, these HID headlight bulbs and their associated electronics can sometimes cost well over $1,000 to replace after they've gone faulty, and Toyota is unwilling to pick up the tab.


    More to the story
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    I happen to like my Camrys and prefer driving them to lumbering SUVs.

    I rented a Camry and it was fine. Not in a league with my Sequoia. Not a chance I would switch or buy anything that low to the ground. Well maybe for just a runabout for local shopping. If I could handle looking up at all the vehicles around me I would have kept the 05 Passat Wagon. It got 40 MPG on the highway. It was a lot more fun to drive than any Camry ever built. Different strokes :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sure it's boring but that's all most people want.

    Plus, the point here is it'll very likely be on that IIHS Top Safety Picks list when the active headrests are added.
  • I am still looking for a good vehicle to haul my 2 large dogs around, and I am considering a Passat Wagon as well as a minivan or an SUV. Are Passats reliable? Reliability, safety, and handling are my main requirements. I guess they are expensive to maintain, though.

    Also, why are there so few available? I looked on cars.com and autotrader, and there are very few for sale.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    If you are looking for a last generation Passat Wagon diesel. They are nearly non existent. I could have sold a dozen for more than I paid new. The new Jetta Sportswagen is about the same size and has more power and uses less diesel. Again they are not easy to find. And harder to make a deal on. Other than some early issues with the DSG transmission programming they seem to be reliable from the owners posting here on Edmund's. I found VW maintenance much cheaper than Toyota maintenance. My Sequoia cost $53 for cheapo dyno oil changes at two dealers. One in San Diego the other in Evansville Indiana. The TDI oil changes are 10k miles instead of 5k and the dealer charged $51 for the proper synthetic oil in my Passat.

    PS
    I think the last generation Passat Wagon was one of the best looking vehicles on the road. And it was fun to drive.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Passats are NOT reliable. Run away.

    Have you looked at the Honda Element? Many people think it's ugly, and it seats only 4 (as opposed to 5+ for most vehicles), but the lower line models have a plastic, easily cleanable floor as opposed to carpeting. There's lots of room in the cargo area, and the car is an IIHS Top Safety Pick.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    I won't argue the reliable issue on the Passat here. My experience of 13 months of ownership was all good.

    I agree the Element is ugly, though very functional. It gets poor mileage compared to the VW TDI models. I don't think you can argue that it is any safer than a Passat. It does offer AWD which is a plus. If it got decent mileage I would consider one in spite of the UGLY body. As far as the VW Sportwagen TDI. Many owners are reporting double the mileage of Element owners. For the lack of power the Element is a gas hog. It has 40% less torque than the Jetta TDI. It has 25% less cargo space than the VW Sportwagen. None of which has been swept under the rug. It is all available here on Edmund's. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    IIHS Top Safety Picks in that class:

    SMALL SUVs
    Honda Element
    Jeep Patriot - with optional side torso airbags
    Subaru Forester
    Volkswagen Tiguan

    You could add small wagons from that list: Soul, Cube, Impreza, Golf, A3, Outback, Jetta, Passat.

    I guess the Outback and Passat are a big bigger.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,810
    I have a B5 Passat (2005) wagon with 60K. Amazingly, I've had basically zero problems with it outside of a couple of CEL's fixed under warranty in 4.5 years of ownership.

    It's a great handling car, gets 25 mpg regularly and hauls plenty of lacrosse and camping gear.

    The current B6 Passat wagon is almost impossible to find.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, en route to New MexicoPosts: 40,506
    An old friend of mine has a Passat wagon of around that vintage, and he hasn't had any problems with his either.

    VW's rep does make one wonder.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,690
    The current B6 Passat wagon is almost impossible to find.

    I thought I read that the Passat wagon had been cancelled for the remainder of the run of the current Passat, as the Jetta wagon is almost the same size?

    As you may know, the 2011 Passat arriving next year will be a very different animal, a much larger sedan designed in and produced solely for North America (big, cheap, and soft for "American tastes"). Not sure if there will be a wagon available, but I imagine they will offer a diesel.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • Alas, the Jetta wagon is almost exactly the same size as my Mazda 3 (179 inches long and 70 inches wide). The Passat wagon is 188 inches long and 72 inches wide.

    I have an 80 pound Lab and a 57 pound German Shorthaired Pointer. I need some extra room! ;)
  • I love the new Honda Element dog friendly vehicle (they know who their target audience is!), but it is a very short vehicle. My daughter was teasing me that if I bought the Element, my Lab's tail would be waving out the back as I drove along. I think I need more space than what it offers. :(

    I appreciate all suggestions, though. Thanks.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,810
    As you may know, the 2011 Passat arriving next year will be a very different animal, a much larger sedan designed in and produced solely for North America (big, cheap, and soft for "American tastes"). Not sure if there will be a wagon available, but I imagine they will offer a diesel.

    My understanding is that the new mid-size model has yet to have a name. It will grow in size to be more of a Camcord competitor and will be built at their new plant in Chattanooga. I doubt it will offer a wagon. A diesel will probably be offered.

    The Passat name supposedly will stay with the CC and a new model will be coming out around 2013 with perhaps a wagon variant. It will continue to be made in Germany and will be priced as such.
  • Mander Toyota employ liars & perjurors
    read the full story here http://austlawpublish.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Forester might work. CR has a biggest-box test and the Forester does well for its class.

    Think of that box as a large dog crate.

    If you want to measure to compare, the Forester's cargo floor is 102" long from the center console all the way back. Not sure about the Element, but check it.
This discussion has been closed.