Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira

You sure that burning smell isn't the undercoating burning off?

John: parts are simliar in cost to any import brand. The Outback and Legacy are made in Indiana so parts are sourced from there also. Stick with us and we'll point you to a handful of on-line wholesalers that have very reasonable parts prices.

Cheaper coffee than Audi, LOL! My dealer uses Maxwell House, but then again the last time I had to pay a visit was to buy my 2nd Subie! :-)

-juice

cptplt

I had an auto trans fluid leak once which smelled like burning but it wasn't like rubber.

nippononly

the coffeepot is always empty! LOL

It's OK, because they always give me a loaner, so I never have to stick around for maintenance. But they sure must have some big coffee drinkers over there!

cynthiag

I'm glad to hear that the Subarus are reliable... well, Consumer Reports said so, but after my last car, I had to wonder if anything would or could be that good.

Extended warranties are all well and good, but don't cover you if you keep a car like I do and I kept the '85 Toyota Camry liftback for seventeen happy years and 198,000 miles. (Automatic transmission was starting to go, plus a wheel bearing.)

I think I only had one really expensive repair on the Camry, something to do with suspension, though not struts or shocks, which were still original when I traded it in. It was about $1000, I just can't remember what they called it though. It was around the 140K mark I think.

I think I had a brake repair, had to replace the fuel pump once, had to do some widget a couple years back to pass smog and had to get a wheel bolt replaced after it broke. The rest was maintenance, except for one thingie covered under a recall and one expensive (or would have been) engine repair covered under extended warranty.

So far, my Outback does not seem to have exhibited any problems at all, other than alignment, but I think they got that right or mostly so on the second try.

I am a happy camper so far with my car! But it's still very new with only 650 miles on it.

Cynthia

romy4

I've been reading these boards for weeks and have pretty much narrowed my choices down to either a Forester or an Outback. Does anyone have any experiences with Minooka Subaru in the Scranton, PA area? Their discounted prices are higher than those quoted on the Van Bortel website and others I've seen mentioned.

How about their service department. I's prefer to buy locally, but obviously want to get a good deal.

Romy

porknbeans

Thank you very much for your input on maintenance costs and dealers. I have to say that the OB is looking better and better. Unfortunately, today I found out that my company truck has to have the front ball joints replaced and the rear diffy redone. I've also had to replace the shocks and the entire wiring system. How many miles? you may ask...63k on a 2000 Durango. Boss has me out looking for a new one. His choice so I just drive it, we'll see (nice perk though). Thanks again for your patience and input. I'll still be lurking here and ask another question someday. Who knows, 6-9 months from now when I finally pull the trigger, I may be logging on to say I'm one of the gang.

subearu

jay_24 May 22, 2002 6:29am

I also regularly take the deflector off to clean and/or wax underneath. In the winter, I also remove it before washing our OB and hand wash and dry the deflector indoors.

Always wondered about when those rubber bumpons would lose their grip. Mine are still on strong after 1 1/2 years. I think removing/replacing it every so often also helps you identify if there are cracks forming or if the rubber bumpons are missing.

-Brian

ckfreund

We bought our Outback last year from the dealer in Madison. We have nothing but good things to say about our experience. When we test drove, the salesman didn't go with us and told us to take as long as we want. When we got back, there was no pressure whatsoever to buy. I got a quote (at invoice according to Edmunds) through Autobytel from a dealer near Rockford, IL. We went back to the dealer in Madison and got our Outback for the same price as the Autobytel person quoted. I can't comment about the repair service since I haven't needed any repairs.

barc

Hi, this is my first post here.
I recently bought a new Legacy L wagon auto, my first Sub. Owned mostly toyotas and 1 ford(never again).
Now have about 3,800 kms on it and very happy. Dealer sales experience was excellent. Only one problem found , glove box light does not work, and no, it's not the bulb, so must be bad connection, etc. Otherwise no problems at all. Seats seemed hard on test drive but I'm happy with them, on 2 hour drives anyway. Wife's happy with the car too. Raced a chev blazer in the snow and I won, heh-heh. No problem here in Calgary in recent 1 ft snowstorm. RE92 tires seem really good in the snow and ice. Outbacks are really common here, but not many L's. I'll post more info as time goes on. Really good message board here folks!

cptplt

barc

watch out, once you start wearing off some of the tread those RE92s are the biggest piece of junk on snow! When almost new they are great, I have driven Des Moines- Chicago in snowstorm with all plows pulled off the interstate when I had only 1K miles on the car.Had to do same stupid thing a year later with Arctic Alpins on the same car and the new RE92s were pretty darn good in comparison to what has been touted as one of the better winter tires. Once the RE92s wear down they are positively dangerous on snow or ice or even water! I've had 3 Subes with RE92s as OE, my MO now is to let them wear to about half tread depth and run out quick to replace them with something else (have tried Pirelli P500,P4000, Michelin XGT Pilot - the Michelin wins by a long shot but you pay for it!).

heatherbean

"Michelin wins by a long shot but you pay for it"
Go to www.tires.com If you like in the North West then the Michelin Pilot XGT H4's are only $111 each for 225/60/16's or $102 for the L/GT/WRX. I love them and did a lot of research before choosing. I wanted a summer tire feel with all weather traction. They cost the same as other tires I looked at too.

P.S. Deal is now sealed in at $700 over invoice, plus I am not obligated to buy the GT unless I love it. It is being brought over from South Lake Tohoe today! Wish me luck, Heather
Heather

mrk610

Got my fingers crossed for you .Good luck

mike k

nygreg

We are wishing you good luck.

Greg

nygreg

Barry on your Subie. Good luck! There was also another post introducing themselves as a new owner. Counldn't find it, but I wish you luck also.

Greg

nygreg

It was a toss up between the Michelin's, Dunlops and Yokohama's. The Dunlop Sport A2s won over. I should recieve them today from Tirerack, installed tonight or tomorrow morning (remember the screw in the sidewall of my OEM Firestones). I'll keep you updated on performance.

Greg

nygreg

Pulled into work this morning and a collegue was eyeing my car. "Nice car" he said when I got out, "How do you like it"? I proceeded with a 15 minute sales pitch. He will be test driving Subarus by weekend!

Greg

green_ob

My 2002 OB w/ 3500 miles has the high pitched whistle /whine when the accelerator is pressed from about 65 mph and higher. It stops when I release the pedal.

It sounds like the same pinion /ring gear problem described by trek2002 in #5529 and in #5518.

At the 3000 m oil change, Livermore, CA Subaru said that it was standard transmission noise. I was pretty sure they didn't try very hard to track it down.

Maybe a TSB is in order.

On another note, does anyone's OB pull slightly to the right ? The dealer says everything is in spec.

trek2002

My 02 obw is being repaired at Jim Burke in Birmingham AL. I will contact SOA district rep after repair to advise that more than a couple of owners are experiencing this 60-80mph whistle.

I did notice that the whistle stopped when above 80mph.

I will post to the other list all the details and description of repairs when car is finished

barc

I replaced the front speakers in my '02 L wagon with 2 way kenwood speakers. Still have the factory CD player. I found little difference in sound quality. I don't think it was worth it, but maybe if I had a better CD player. My advice is leave the stock speakers in if you have the factory stereo.

cynthiag

Mine did, the first test drive I took, and though I bought the car, I told the dealer about it and they had it aligned. Which helped a little, but didn't totally get rid of it.

When I took it in to have my options installed, I told them again and they took it and had it aligned again, this time the results were much better!

Spec or no spec, I'd say go ahead and continue to agitate about this if it is a problem. BTW, I bought my car from Diablo Subaru in Walnut Creek. They seem very nice so far.

As far as whistle/whine, I've only had the car up to 70mph a couple times, no problem that I noticed. She only has 700+ miles, so I'm keeping the speed mostly under 65 during break-in.

What does Livermore Subaru charge for an oil change?

Cynthia

ateixeira

Congrats Barry! What color did you get? We just got a Wintergreen L wagon, but a 5 speed. It's our 2nd Subie.

I doubt we'll swap speakers given we usually listen to kiddie music. It's bad enough as is! ;-)

Greg: I'll be interested to hear you impressions, given those Dunlops would be my choice for my wife's car once they need tires.

-juice

green_ob

Driving down a straight section of highway, my OB will pull to the right after a couple hundred feet. I know the curvature of the road has an effect but it seemed like my old Neon didn't drift over the same distance so I wasn't sure if this was normal for OB's.

Livermore Subaru charges $30 for an oil change. The service was fine. I did ask them to check alignment and for the 60 mph acceleration whistle. They said adjusted the tire pressure which did seem to help but they said the whistle was normal.

I actually bought the car in Corte Madre.

chris

ateixeira

I thought our Legacy was pulling to the left, but then I realized I was in the left lane and so it was just leaning with the road.

Later, in the right lane, it pulled a bit to the right. So I guess it's normal, but maybe a little more sensitive to crowned roads?

My Forester seems less sensitive, for whatever reason. And the wheelbase is shorter. Odd.

-juice

mtnshopper

Hello. I recall reading a post a year or two ago (can't find it now) about a particular popup camper that was ideal for towing with an Outback wagon. I'm looking for the website. It was a popup trailer that when opened had an A-frame shape. Does that ring a bell with anyone? Thanks, Becky

jay_24

Becky,

Subarus and popup campers came up the other day on the popup news group I follow. (alt.rv.pop-up-trailers)

one guy suggested a "Chalet" or "A Liner". I believe both of these have the A frame shape you mention. Colman, Rockwood and Jayco also make popups that are about 1500lbs or less.

After lots of discussion it came down to lighter is better and use trailer brakes. 200lb hitch weight and 2000lb trailer are MAX values.

On guy actually towed a 1950lb trailer with a OB sport and manual trans. He said it tows great. I'd say thats pushing it a bit.

I tow my Rockwood popup with my minivan. I think the Subaru waranty is void if you have problems when towing. (I think I saw that in my owners manual.)

paisan

Don't forget outside the US the towing limits are significantly higher than on US bound vehicles. I don't think it has to do with the capability but has to do with the LAWYERS.

-mike

ateixeira

Careful or they'll sue you for saying that!

I take the 5th!

-juice

rsholland

of voiding your warranty if your trailer weighs over 1000 pounds, and if it doesn't have brakes—and something breaks. Subies are rated to tow 2000 pounds if the trailer has brakes, otherwise it's only 1000 pounds.

Bob

ateixeira

True, but how would they know? ;-)

What I don't get is why UK owners can tow 1800kg, almost double, with no trailer brakes.

-juice

heatherbean

I brought my Titanium Pearl manual GT home tonight! It did nto handle quite as well as the sedan, but close. I really like it! My husband hates the color and wants silver, therefore I like it even more. It is sure to be all MINE! They saw we were not sure and offered invoice price! So we are getting the Michelin Pilot tires on her tomorrow and the free spoiler next week (in the due bill)
I couldn't be more pleased!
Heather

ateixeira

OH YEAH BABY!

Let me be the first to congratulate you! Woo-hoo! I am psyched for you!

Now carry a big stick to beat your hubby away if he tries to steal it from you. ;-)

-juice

heatherbean

Now the I own a GT and not a Bean, how do I change my user name? I can't find out how anywhere. I want to be HeatherGT now please.
What a nice car! The car was driven back to Chico from Tohoe by an old couple in their 70's. That was a big relief! They loved it and said it handled perfectly over the mountain roads. I was worried a 16 year old would race it home in first gear or something. The only gripe is the Dealer in Tohoe added silver pin stripes to Chewy. My husband hates them, but I don't. He wants them removed ASAP. Other then that is seems perfect to me. I will drive it all day today after they but on the Michelin Pilot tires and report back.
Heather

jcy02ob

Previous post #3860 stated 'A guy on the web site Ultimate Subaru page. He has a way to fix it, he says.' Please...if you , or anyone else, knows a way to eliminate wind whistle (or I think thats my problem), please respond. I've posted here a couple of times last week re: my now 10 day old '02 Outback. I've been to the dealer already with a clattering in the engine and brakes that were noisy while coming to a stop. The timing belt tensioner was replaced and my rear rotors were recut which eliminated the 1st two problems. But the third problem, ie: a whistling noise especially noticeable above 60 and seems to go away at around 75 (or gets so high in frequency that I can't hear it) is still there after they 'adjusted the driver window gusset'. The service manager gave me a dissertation about the frameless windows but I wasn't buying it as an excuse for a noise that I can pick up even with the radio on. Anyway...all other aspects of the car are great. Fit and finish, ice cold A/C, decent sounds even with the base OB stereo. The car is quiet enough so that foreign noises are really noticeable, otherwise, its just the muted hum of the motor. I mentioned last week that I thought maybe my problem was whistling from the tires but now, I'm not so sure. Does anyone else have a whistling noise in their 02 Outbacks that they think might be the tires? I've driven without the crossbars, mirrors folded and without a dealer installed hood deflector at separate times but all to no avail in eliminating my whistle noise. Also, I've taped leading edges of the roof rack and gaps in the mirror and driven but these produced no results also. An inspection of my door moldings looks OK too. Please respond if anyone can help!

jcy02ob

Specifically, where was the 'fix' located on the Ultimate Subaru webpage. I poked around some but couldn't find anything.

trek2002

Mine is in the shop this week replacing the pinion bearing / gear ring. Working being done at Jim Burke Subaru in Birmingham, AL. Two techs confirmed whistle noise at 62-80mph range. Over 80 noise is gone or pitch is too high to hear.
They advise if the parts are outside tolerance level just slightly this noise is heared between 60-80. They advised that they have already repaired another car with this sympton.
I will post final work order info when I receive it early next week.

Contact district service manager and have him check the work being done at Jim Burke.

Good Luck

grahampeters

G'day

This is something of a recurrent theme. Maybe we should figure out how to post these fixes to a single locked page where all the answers to the regular questions to the Subaru Crew can be posted.

The cause of wind noise in the Subaru, as with most vehicles, is imperfections in the surface over which the moving air passes. I had a Mercedes that sang impressively when I drove through moist air (fog or mist). Pitch varied with speed. It took ages to figure out that the mobile phone aerial was vibrating in the airflow and resonating across the roof.

The most obvious airflow problems for the Subaru are the roof racks, window areas and mirrors.

The general technique for detecting all of them is to search for imperfections, remove or mask them all and then progressively reintroduce the imperfections.

Put simply, take the roof bars off first and then put masking tape over each imperfection area. Drive the car at 60-75 mph and listen for noise. If it has disappeared, you are on the right track. Remove one piece of masking tape at a time until you find the problem. When localised, search for the solution.

The most common problem is around the mirrors. There appears to be some sort of gasket or seal between the fixed base and the movable mirror surround. If this is rotated backwards and forwards a few times, it seems to seat better.

Door/window seals are also a potential problem, particularly if, like me, you have assistance from a small helper (if he reaches 21 without killing himself, he will be an engineer). These fit into a channel in the frame and can be easily pulled out or twisted slightly out of alignment. If you run your fingers up each side of the seal where it fits in the channel, easing the rubber as you go, they should seat properly. If actually out of the channel, work them back in from the point where they are secure by slightly stretching the bead (that makes it thin enough to pop in) and then repeat until all reseated.

Door seals also can deform slightly over time from the continued pressure on them. Ideally, you should leave all windows and doors (and sunroof) wide open on a hot sunny day to allow the rubber to return to its natural shape.
Finally, the roof rack rails are frequently installed the wrong way around. If they are asymmetric, the fatter part of the bar should face forward. Think of how an aeroplane wing is rounded at the front but tapers at the rear.

If you have localised the problem but cant find fix, strategically applied furry tape can alter the air flow dramatically.

As a rule, there are actually fewer problems with frameless windows than framed ones. There is one fewer area for problems at each window join, halving the protential problem areas. In addition, the rubbers are actually thicker and squishier than for framed windows.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Graham

barc

Thanks, Dark blue. Picked wintergreen at first, but we changed our minds at the last minute. I like it alot, but gotta wash it all the time. At about 4,000 kms now, still everything ok. Theres a white connector that fell down from the dash just to the right of the glove box. Must be a diag connector I guess. Will stuff it back up there.

mortpeaberry

I still have the factory front speakers and an after market deck, but I replaced the back speakers with some 2 way speakers with non-paper cones, and all of a sudden I can here base and high end from behind my seat (sorry to the kids riding back there)
-steve-v

cynthiag

Thanks for the info... I may go to Livermore Subaru for oil changes after I use my Walnut Creek coupon. I'll check with Walnut Creek, but the coupon seemed to indicate that the regular price was $40+... and that's a bit much!

Cynthia

cynthiag

Congrats Heather!

Chewie sounds like just the car for you and it's probably a good thing that hubbie hates the color!

Personally, I think the color you chose is great looking! And if your hubby likes silver (I can't fault him there, it's my favorite car color too.) then stay away from that, or he'll be driving YOUR car.

Have fun on those corners!

Cynthia

cynthiag

I think I am taking the carpeted mats out of the Outback permanently. Today, I noticed a pile of assorted leaf and other debris on my rubber floor mat. Picked it up, shook it out in the parking lot, put it back. All that stuff was contained by the floor mat and is NOT inside my car, thanks to the nice ridges on the rubber mats that keep that stuff inside the boundaries.

It was also nice after taking my car to the local coin hand wash that I had no worries stepping back into the car to drive it out of the stall, since one's feet are invariably wet after washing the car.

I'll try to take pix at some point and post, so folks who haven't seen these can take a peek. I am quite fond of the looks, they seem to really go with the Outback. Or maybe it's just me.

Cynthia

jcy02ob

Trek2002 and Graham - Thanks for your replies. Question for Trek2002...Was your noise accelerator sensitive, ie: only apparent when stepping on or off the gas, or was it all the time at the 60-75 mph range? Mine does not seem related to accelerating or decelerating. I'm just trying to pin down the exact circumstances in which your whistle occurred and compare it with mine. Before this car, I had a 2001 Aurora V8 which I traded in toward the OB. The Olds was my dreamcar turned nightmare. So many problems that I just had to cut my losses and go with a proven winner, the OB. Now, with this car making a wierd noise I'm a bit disheartened although my confidence is high that a fix can be found. I had a 2000 OB H4 ltd., which, in hindsight, I never should have let go. However, the plain jane OB is more to my liking with more headroom and seats more comfortable than the leather. Graham - I'll do a thorough check of the moldings you mentioned.

eric102

I think they are the best upgrade I've made to the Outback so far (the rear gate bar is a close 2nd). Like Cynthia said, they do add to the looks of the car and collect an amazing amount of crud. Highly recommended.

Eric

trek2002

Mine was DEFINITELY associated with the accelerator pedal. While depressed the low resonance noise would whistle, only at speeds between 60-80. If the pedal was released the noise would disappear at speed of 60-80. If the cruise was set at speed of 60-80 the noise was present. Cruise really equals depressed pedal more or less. My pinion bearing and gear ring have been replaced but they mistakenly received the a wrong part that was required during the repair and will likely have it fixed 5.27.02...
My advisor/tech have already said they repaired one OBW with this symptom not too long ago.
The tech looked at all the outside noise problems well before he considered the PB/GR replacement.
The cross bars were off the car and he had me press on all the windows during driving.

Will post the final outcome once the car is back home.

Enjoy the BBQ

jfl

From what I'm reading, trek2002 does not have wind noise. It's a mechanical problem.

For the rest of us who HAVE experienced wind noise, it's not mechanical. I get the whistle near the windshield only in high cross winds. Otherwise, the car is fine and quiet. The rare times when it happens, it is annoying.

Hope you are able to cure the problem and enjoy the car.

heatherbean

What performance mods do you all have on your Legacys?
I am thinking of a performance muffler- but which one? Street legal of course. Is the Subaru performance muffler any good?

How about a cold air intake? K&N claims 30 more HP with it. That would be nice

Let's see... What else? I don't think I need a bigger sway bar since I took very hair pin turns at 60 (without the child in the car- shh!) And it clung to the road very well with only slight body roll.
And I do not want 17 or 18 inch wheels or summer tires, so forget about that mod for me. I don't want to drop in a turbo either. I did install a K&N air filter and she likes it. Just little things like that to give it a little more umph.

I am really enjoying my GT a lot! Sure it's only been 2 days so far, but she handles as good, if not better, then my OBS. I smile when I drive her. She reminds me of a sure footed nimble jack rabbit (and the same color too!) My husband hates the color and all the better for me since it insures Chewbacca is all MINE! Hee Hee!

I just figure with a little tuning she will be even better. But stock is great too! I love this car. She's getting her spoiler next week and a bumper guard. I took the rubber mat from the trade-in Outback. And my husband installed 3-way Pioneer speakers (TSA-1664) today that are FANTASTIC! Much better then Subaru "premium" ones.

I love the soft leather wheel and it feels more torquie (sp) then the Outbacks, although the engine is the same and the car weighs to same. What is that? Is it geared differently? She asks me to shift at 2500 RPMs, but I refuse. I shift at 3000 0r 3500 to get that extra power. She has a nice roar to her engine too.

Anyway, any suggestions would be very welcome. Please post all you mods to improve performance and handling. I am sure there are a lot fo things I can do that I have not thought of. Not things to decrease my gas mileage though please. Sport Compact Car magazine "Project WRX" after Stage 0 mods, the WRX now gets 10 MPG! No thanks.
Heather- a very happy GT owner- it's been a tough 8 weeks and husband is very happy with the L.L. Bean! So it worked out great for both of us- well except the the $$$!

ateixeira

You got the fever already? ;-)

The Subaru muffler adds 3hp or so, and isn't cheap. You might want to shop around for a Borla SS, you can probably get 5hp.

I looked at my wife's car, and the intake grabs air from the leading edge of the hood, so it ought to be cold (i.e. fresh, not engine bay air). I don't see a big need to change it, but a foam or gauze filter is re-usable and may give you 1-3hp realistically, since it's normally aspirated.

Another option is an underdrive pulley. They claim 5hp, but what you really get is better throttle response so you can blip the throttle and match revs when shifting.

Each mod has its trade-offs. Exhausts will likely make it louder. Intakes will be louder especially at WOT (wide-open throttle). The pulley has some owners complaining that the interior lights dim at idle, because they turn the accessories a little slower.

Keep her under 4000rpm until it breaks in, though. You do have gearing 7% shorter than the Outback, so yes it'll pull off the line a little quicker. They use the same final drive and gears 1-4 have the same ratios, but 5th is actually taller on the GT so it's relaxed cruising the highway.

-juice

heatherbean

Yes I love my car so much I am really into the mods and all the fun! I ordered whiteline 18mm rear sway bars for both my GT and L.L. Bean. And guys at the i-club lead me here:

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/

I want that cat-back exhaust! But will wait a while to save the $$$ for it. I will not try the cold air intake or anything else, although it all seems fun to me! I will let you all know how the 18mm swaybar is next week.

Heather

ateixeira

Sways are the cheapest and most effective mod, no question. They are easy to install, too, with just 4 bolts. Make sure you get bushings, and have a tube of lithium grease.

-juice

paisan

But after tires and sway bars, spend the $ on a good performance driving school. 80% of going fast has to do with the driver skills not the actual machinery. That is my own personal feeling on "performance mods" beyod tires and some light suspension work.

-mike