Subaru Legacy/Outback

hashman

I've got Kumho's Ecsta 714 two month ago...about 2500 miles, from TireRack...I love the price...they are far better than the Firestones Wildies. They're quiet-er, good handling and perform-ing very well in the snow. Dry HWY driving is a little windy but thats what radios do best...crank it up! At the price...you can't lose...definetly get these again, warranteed for 55000 mi...sound like a salesman...sorry. Great sevice from Tirerack's recomended installers.

00' OB, I have no problems with the front brakes. Front changed at 30K...now at 41K changed the rears.

Question toall: I like to get the passenger visor with the mirror and lights and/or the electronic rear veiw mirror from Subaruparts.com. Do the wiring setup exist to do this? or will I have to discect and attack the center maplights wiring?

c_hunter

I had put the lighted/mirror passenger visor in my 00 Outback. It comes with a wiring harness that taps into the map light harness. I just ended up putting the new visor in without the wiring -- I was primarily after the mirror and did not care about the light too much. But, I don't think it would be too hard to run the wire and do the job right. You just have to pull the headliner back a little.

Instructions for mounting the mirror are here:

http://www.subaru-parts.com/_instructions/44SECMirrorComassIx.pdf

Looks like the same deal -- tap into wiring near the map lights. So, it would be a good idea to to the visors and the mirror at the same time.

Craig

otis123

I've been traveling Taconic for years...from Queens to Poughkeepsie 1982-1990 and from Yorktown Heights to Poughkeepsie 1990-present. I know every dip, radius of every turn, where the deer hang out at night, possible ice formations, possible rock landfalls, every drain, etc. - mainly in night driving to boot!

LOL!

Ralph

nygreg

So that's you! ;-)

Greg

kmclean

Mark -

Before you buy the electronic mirror from Subaru (parts.com or anywhere), consider this: the mirror is produced by Donnelly Corp (they're located in Michigan and have a Web site). They produce several variations of the mirror - including the compass/auto-dimming one that Subaru sells (and they have one that matches the mirror mount already on your windshield). They also sell that same mirror with the additional function of an ambient temperature readout (which I find VERY handy). I installed one in my 2K OB in September of 2000, and love it! Depending upon when your car was produced, it may have a wiring harness (for power only) already installed - it's located under the roof liner, a bit to the right of the map light assembly. The mirror literally plugs in and you're ready to go. I believe the date cutoff was around January 2000 - if your car is an earlier model, you can just tap into a nearby switched wire (the sunroof would be good).

I highly recommend the temperature probe model - since you'll have the roof liner pulled down anyway, it's not much trouble to run the temp probe wire left to the the driver's A-pillar, down to the left side of the driver's footwell, then out the the engine compartment through an existing [plugged] hole in the firewall (just forward of the clutch). I have the probe proper hooked down in the lower part of the inside of the front bumper (just inboard of the fog lamp) - where it's away from engine heat yet protected from the elements. If you decide to do this yourself, I'd recommend that you wait for warmer weather, as there's a fair amount of bending and pulling plastic components - and you don't want to break anything.

I sent the whole procedure to Juice a couple of years ago, and he had posted it on a Web site he had. Perhaps he still has it somewhere. Juice?

Good luck!

Ken in [VERY soggy] Seattle

hashman

toboggan

about the rpms vs mph on various years of OBW. My '98 OBW limited 5spd seems to be running at higher rpms at 70 mph then newer models. At 3500 rpm the OBW is turning 74mph. How does this compare? Plus right now I'm getting about 22mpg at 74mph with a Thule ski box on top. Of course the gas contains about 10% ethenol at this time for the winter.

Thanks for the input.

MNSteve

rob999

My 2001 H4/5spd runs 3,500 @ 75mph, too.
Gas mileage has been down this winter with the consistent colder temps in the upper midwest.

fibber2

I live not far off of Rt 55 in Beekman (east of the Taconic). Where in Poughkeepsie do you work?

Steve

otis123

Actually, my parents live in Spackenkill (behind the high school), my 83 years old dentist (sharp as a tack) is on Fox St., and a close friend lives on W. Clove Mtn. Rd. (off Rt. 55 - east of Taconic) so I still use Taconic a lot - though my daily grind/commute is from Yorktown Hgts. down to White Plains.

I just love going through Putnum Co. Taconic as fast as I can - always have - always will... freaks my wife out everytime... I never thought the Outback would be able to handle it as well as it does...

Ralph

nygreg

The Taconic from Putnam all the way to I90 is a real pleasure to drive. If you like twists and turns the Putnam portion is fun. Unfortunately, I always see troopers (police that is) around there.

Greg

K9Leader

Otis123:
Let us know how the Pilot Sport A/S work out.

I just bought a 2000 Outback Limited with 32,000 miles. Tires have some life left so I was figuring in a few months or so . . . However, the day I bought it, the guy I bought it from had to swerve to avoid another car and clipped a curb, taking a quarter-sized chunk out of the sidewall of the right rear tire. He knocked $150 off the sale price. I am wary of driving around with that damage to the tire, so I may go ahead and do the tires earlier than I had thought.

The Pilot Sport A/S appears to be solid in every area. I am willing to pay the cost to have good solid contact with the road, but I am concerned about tread life. The guy at Costco said he could order them for me but he recommended against them as he said I would only get 20,000 miles out of them. He recommended the Bridgestone Potenza RE950 or Michelin Pilot XGT H4 or the Michelin MXV4+XSE, all of which are on my list of possibles.

Anyway, let us know how it goes.

--K9Leader

gwellman

I've been looking at getting a wagon. The Legacy/Outback are near the top of my list. What I don't get is the pricing around here (Seattle). A dealer wants 19k for a 2001 Outback with 41k miles on it. Edmunds says 14k is a fair *retail* price. I offered 14.5 and he almost laughed. A private seller wants 13.5 for a 1999 Legacy Outback with 63k miles. Edmunds says 10.5 is a fair private sale price.

Is Edmunds pricing Subarus too low, or are these people delusional and I need to hunt harder for a deal?

In another discussion on these boards, a poster said Edmunds prices are "opinion". I thought they were compiled from actual sales statistics. Am I wrong?

tidester

The Edmunds.com True Market Value® (TMV®) prices are our estimates of the current average selling prices for this vehicle. These prices are for your region of the country if you provided us with a Zip Code; otherwise they are the national averages. These are base prices and do not include the cost of optional equipment or taxes and other fees.

tidester, host

eric102

A dealer in Marysville WA. is advertising new 2003 Outbacks for under $20,000. I think Edmunds is closer to reality than your Seattle dealers for a used Outback.

I bought a new Outback from this dealer in 2001. Invoice or less pricing and they seem to be straight shooters, no additional fees etc. I didn't have a trade in, so maybe they get you there.

Good luck, Eric

stever

I'm buying a used '97 OB Ltd. for $12,600 ("retail pricing"). That's the price I got from the Real-World Trade-In Values discussion.

Edmunds Customized Appraisal gave me $12,700 for my zip (the seller's zip prolly would have been a bit higher).

Both prices were too high, but I know the car and was willing to pay retail for a private party sale.

There's just something about buying a AWD Subaru in the winter in some parts of the country. If you want a bargain, try Chattanooga... I almost got one there.

Steve, Host

oregonaj

Does anyone know where the turn signal flasher is located on a '97 Legacy wagon? Thanks, Jim

kmclean

Geez - no wonder you're being quoted high prices - you're over on the east side!

Seriously - I bought my 2K OB (new) from Carter Subaru (at NE175th and Aurora) and received an excellent price, no BS, and a hassle-free experience. They had even given me a new OB to "test drive" for a weekend - over 200 miles - to help me convince the boss it could replace our old Caravan.

They have free loaner cars, and 7-day-a-week service, which you'll probably never use.

The salesman was Victor Fleming, who was still there last fall when we took a new Forester out for a joy ride. They usually have lots of used, late-model OBs.

Good luck!

Ken in (momentarily sunny) Seattle

gwellman

Ok, I'm happy to hear the comments. My responses so far:

Tidester: yup, I gave zip and priced with options accurately.

Eric: Thanks, I will look up Marysville and drive there if it'll save me $thousands. (Cool, just north of Everett - is that Roy Robinson Chevy-Subaru?)

Steve: Thanks. (but otoh, it's no longer winter here :-) )

kmclean: Are you joking, or are you serious? I'm new to the area and if Kirkland is overpriced, I can drive 10 miles and be in Seattle or Lynnwood, 20 and be in Renton, etc. I just woulda thought that competition would even out prices over such short distances (a "mean field theory" of car pricing :-) )

hammersley

3.5k rpm @ 75 here too... 97 OB 5spd
"thirty five at seventy five"

Ken: thanks for sharing all the rain, bud

Cheers! (and wipe your feet!)
Paul in (it only looks like Seattle) Spokane

eric102

Yes, Roy Robinson. You'll save about 1/2% on sales tax if you buy outside of the Seattle area. They gave me a free loaner the one time I took the Outback in for a minor warranty item and a discount on some accessories that I bought at a later date.

Kind of weird on used Outbacks, I see what seems like millions of them on the road around here, but hardly ever see one advertised for sale in our (Everett) paper.

Eric

raybear

You don't see them because people hardly ever give them up.

We took one in on trade today and it was sold within two hours.

hypov

K9Leader Mar 14, 2003 10:12pm

Robert-
The Michelin MVX4s are pretty good tires, as I've had them on my '98 OB. The thread wears good and they are quiet. However, if you're an agressive driver, it'll be squealing to advertise that you are. ;-) Had the older MXV4s on on Al'Gator's maiden Auto-X run @ NASA. They didn't break away but boy it was squealing. Also, the threads won't take the agressive abuse compared to the Pilot Sport A/S which Ed (lark6) had on. I find them great for spirited driving after they are broken in.

-Dave

ladywclass

Yeah, I noticed the same thing here when I was looking to buy .. all over the roads, but none on the used lots ...
and the only one I did find on a used lot had quite a few miles on it, and some sort of transmission problem. It was an automatic, and (since it's been 2 1/2 years ago) I don't remember exactly what the problem was, but I could feel it when I test drove the car ...

raybear

The only ones we have on hand are fairly new, they can't compete with the finance rates on new cars available today.

gwellman

Eric said:

>You'll save about 1/2% on sales tax if you buy outside of the Seattle area.

Is this a tax on new cars only, on all cars, or on just about everything? As I said, I'm new to the area ... I didn't know about a local sales tax ... haven't been able to learn anything about it online. I know State tax is 6.5%.

gwellman

raybear said:

>The only ones we have on hand are fairly new, they can't compete with the finance rates on new cars available today.

But isn't the point that in a marketplace, everything must compete? If the finance rates on a new car are equivalent to $4000 off, then that must affect the price of recent used models too.

One dealer said "This is our cost to own this car" (it was a lease return). My response was "So three years ago, you gave too good a lease deal. That is not my problem."

cheeca

Help, I'm being transferred to Canada, Quebec, and can anyone tell me if I should by an Outback 4dr wagon ,here in Tennessee or buy it in Canada. I'm moving in 60 days and have to have one. Thanks

eric102

I think with all the local taxes added onto the base state tax, the Seattle area is at about 8.9%. In the Marysville area its about 1/2% less. If you go further north into Skagit Co., its about 1% less than Seattle. And yes, the sales tax is the same on new or used cars. I think about the only thing not taxed is food. At least we don't have a state income tax. When I was building my house, I paid over $20,000 in sales tax on the building materials and labor, maybe we would be better off with an income tax!

rsholland

A bit of a dilemma, for sure. Subies are cheaper in the USA, but you likely won't have your warranty honored in Canada. Also, if you bring your USA-spec car into Canada, I'm not sure if you have to bring it up to Canadian specs?

Bob

K9Leader

Dave:
I have MXV4s on my '94 Lincoln Mark VIII and have been satisfied. But the Mark VIII is a totally different beast than an Outback -- honkin' big V8, rear wheel drive, lotsa power -- so it's not even like comparing apples to oranges. More like apples to kumquats. I also leave the Mark VIII in the garage in snow and ice (which is the point of getting the OB).
I'm still interested in hearing from anyone about tread wear on the Pilot Sport A/S . . .
--K9Leader

mrk610

2900 at 75 mph . 02 outback base 4eat.

raybear

Interest rates do affect the prices, but when you get stuck with the cars, that's it, you have to sell at a loss, usually wholesale it out.

They also affect the value of trade-ins.

goosegog

I don't know if the specs are different in any legal sense, but certainly in Canada the OB wagon is likely to be spec'd differently. E.g. my 00 OB had the cold weather package as standard (even though unecessary in Vancouver). I was unable to buy a 5-spd LTD to get the sun/moonroof combo. And the GT was auto only, just like the LTD. Also I don't think the Bean is available here (I've never seen one).

So there's less choice. But given our low $ and generally lower incomes when compared with the USA, cars here are often cheaper in real terms (in other words multiply your US price by 1.6 and see how it compares with the price in CAN$. But watch for the dreaded GST, Quebec sales tax, and the "luxury car tax" if it exists in Quebec.

If you are going to be earning a US salary but spending it in Canada that might the best of all worlds.

Bienvenue a Canada!

ccampbell4

My 2002 5sp is turning 3500 at 75. I'm driving a loaner right now - 2003 auto that is at about 3000 at 75. They are geared differently, but I'm not sure why.

toboggan

It seems that the 5 spds have a different final drive ratio versus the 4eat. It's about a 500 rpm higher difference between the two. Bummer.

My '91 626 5 door 5 spd ran 3000 rpm and 80 mph. Now that was a good cruiser for a 4-banger. Good mpg, too.

MNSteve - 60+ again today with sun this afternoon

kmclean

If you're new to the area, then perhaps you don't realize you're in "ripoff central." The eastside prices everything higher - especially housing and cars. Definitely check out Carter - and forget that [girlie - oops - here goes my PC certification] Kirkland Subaru dealer. You'll probably never need to go back to the dealer for maintenance beyond minor tweaks. Be nice, and I'll give you the name of a fabulous Woodinville business who'll take care of your OB and any other vehicle for fair prices (and excellent service).

Cheers from (increasingly sunny, and at the moment, incredibly full-moon) Seattle,

Ken M.

fibber2

<<One dealer said "This is our cost to own this car" (it was a lease return). My response was "So three years ago, you gave too good a lease deal. That is not my problem.">>

Curious response from the dealer, and I agree with you! I leased a few cars, with excellent terms (for me), but high residuals. That meant that the dealers couldn't afford to take them back and keep them. In the case of Dodge, I negotiated a "new" residual at return time based on what the expected price would be at auction. I then sold it privately, paid off the "new" value, and made a buck. Two years later I was in the same situation. Ford does not re-negotiate, but they don't stick the dealer with the loss either. Dealer has a choice to buy it if the deal is good, or let it go to auction and Ford takes the loss.

Assuming Subaru also protects its dealers from poor lease prediction, I am not sure why your prospective dealer would opt to keep a car that is way over priced? I think that is just an excuse to gouge.....

Steve

fibber2

I know it is against Edmunds policy for you to advertise, but it is probably OK for you to answer a direct question:

Does your dealership sell parts competitively over the net? Is there a web site? Always looking for another source to the ones often mentioned on this board.

Steve

docfreed

We left our 2002 Outbacks (one wagon, one H6 sedan) in the airport for 2 weeks only to come back to a dead battery in the wagon!! In searching
for answers, I noticed that the LCD readouts in the dash (clock/trip/mileage) were on in the sedan, and after a jump start and drive home, are also on in the wagon - is this right? They seem to be in all the time, even when the car is parked.

Thanks in advance for answers

subearu

That clock lcd in the dash on my '00 Outback is on all the time. The mileage lcd is a seperate one that is only on when the key is in the ON position.

Was the parking lamp switch left on accidentally? That's the switch on the top of the steering column that allows you to have the parking lights on without the key in the ignition (and in the ON position). That would easily drain a battery if left ON.

-Brian

revka

So we don't conflict with our policy on soliciting..., you'll need to continue that subject by email. Okay? Feel free to email me if you have any question/comments regarding this matter. Thanks! ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

otis123

is wear rated at 400, which usually translates to ~50K miles for me. Is that a pipe dream? Anyone have some long term data on wear quickness?

Ralph

bkaiser1

I had posted last week or so about the intolerable noise that my Dunlops have started generating while driving...much louder these past few months than they should be. Anyway, I was at Discount Tire last night getting the tires rebalanced and the service guy mentioned that all 4 tires were cupped, then asked if they had gotten louder than they were. Cupped?! Hmmmm.

I put these tires on 8 months ago and have put 18K miles on them since. They've been rotated 3x and balanced 5x in that time, and I check the pressure every weekend to keep them around 33/32psi. Also, the car was aligned the same week the tires were installed and should be within specs.

What else causes cupping? Discound Tire suggested that the struts were worn, but I'd have to think the struts are shot with 48K miles. Any ideas?

Brian

idahodoug

Have you ever had your brakes pulse when you stop? Often accompanied by some steering wheel shimmy at higher speeds.

Also, what precipitated the tires being balanced 5 times in only 18k miles?

IdahoDoug

rob999

Ralph,

Maybe you should consider a set of the Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tires. According to the Michelin web site, these have their highest rating for mileage and quiet ride.

http://michelinman.com/catalog/tires/energymxv4plus.html

IIRC, these have a 60,000 mile warranty whereas the Pilot Sport A/S have no specific mileage warranty.

idahodoug

Before I buy these somewhere else, anyone have a set of Thule roof rack feet that attach to the factory roof rack? All I need are the feet that attach the Thule crossbars to the factory rack.

Thanks!

IdahoDoug

bkaiser1

The front brake rotors were turned a long time ago -- maybe at around 25K miles or so -- to cure a slight pulsing that was happening when braking from freeway speeds. This was before I switched tires, too.

As far as the number of times I've had the new Dunlops balanced, there has been a nearly constant shake in the steering wheel from 65-70mph since I put the tires on. Discount Tire has tried everything to stop the shake, but the rebalancing usually lasts a short time and then reappears. The balance always checks out okay, and they have checked all tires for one that's out of round, but nothing stands out. Their balancing equipment is apparently state of the art (Hunter? maybe, I can't remember).

They rebalanced everything this week and the shake is certainly better, but I've only logged about 150 miles since then, so it's early. They suggested once before that there was something wrong with the drivetrain to cause the shake, but I know it's the tires...my OEM tires were never this picky and the problem started immediately after switching to the Dunlops.

How this relates to the cupped tires now is still a mystery to me...the problem's not bad enough to warrant replacing 1/2 worn tires to the tune of $500, but I dread ruining another set of tires when I so finally replace these.

Brian

otis123

rob999,

Thanks. I'll check them out, but I think their snow rating wasn't too good. The Pilot Sports have a 30K warranty. Decisions, decisions...

Ralph

otis123

rob999,

I'm sticking with the Pilot Sports I ordered. Michelin has no treadwear warranty on any of their tires - just a tire defect warrranty for the life of the tread or 6 years.

They are rated 400 in treadwear. Previous tires I have owned with a 400 rating have lasted to 50K. They may be a little noisey (from the reviews I have read) but the Firestones aren't very quiet either...

Otherwise, they seem to be a breakthrough - ultra high performance with all-season capability... We'll see...

As promised, I'll report as they wear....

Ralph