Subaru Legacy/Outback

gwellman

Thanks again for the comments (particularly on Eastside prices, Ken, price in general, Raybear, etc.) I'm now finding vehicles closer to Edmunds TMV. I needed to figure out how to find them :-)

I'm down to a couple of cars: A 2001 Legacy L with 27000 miles, or a 1999 Legacy 30th Anniv with 36000 miles. Price is pretty darn close, but Edmunds evaluates the 1999 as more valuable, presumably because the 30th Annivs are loaded with features. I would get a little more continuing warrantee coverage on the newer vehicle, but as Ken points out, that might never be needed.

A wildcard would be a 2002 Saturn LW200 with 16000 miles for $1000 less than the Legacies. That would sacrifice AWD for better fuel economy, but I've driven for many years without AWD.

(After I've purchased, I'll dish on my experiences with sellers :-) )

ateixeira

The Saturn isn't rated very highly for safety, resale, or even overall goodness. I find the L series very plasticky and the seats uncomfy.

Between the two Subies, I'd pick the 2001, because the 2000 and later models are bigger and more refined. They're a little heavier but also make a bit more torque to at least compensate for part of that.

And it's hardly stripped, you have AWD, ABS, power stuff, etc. It's not missing anything truly essential, just a few goodies like alloys, and much of that stuff is cheap in the aftermarket or used.

-juice

Kirstie_H

Join us tonight, 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for another round of automotive trivia and member-to-member chat. Test your skills (or multiple choice guessing ability) against other Town Hall members.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

Hope to see you there!

nygreg

Sorry to hear about your Dunlops. As I mentioned, my Sport A2s have gotten louder, but, no vibration. Even up to 90 mph.

Greg

erics6

Brian,

I have the exact same problem except my replacement tires haven't gotten cupped. I also had the front rotors turned some time ago which took care of the pulsing when braking but did nothing for the constant shake at freeway speeds. Balancing the tires helps a little (they are always a little out of balance by then), but the shake is always there. I have to rebalance the tires every 4000-5000 miles or the shaking gets really bad.

I've found no solutions to the shaking after having dealt with the dealer, a good independent mechanic and various tire dealers. I had the tire dealer put on a different brand with a softer rubber, but the shake is still there. I've had a second alignment done. Mechanics have checked the driveline and rotors are good. It's all been very frustrating.

-Eric

fibber2

Make absolute sure that the techs strip off all of the weights before rebalancing. After multiple attempts, you can end up with a pound of lead hanging on there. I went thru this with BJ's (like Costco / Sams). Shake kept getting worse and worse with every trip in. Finally beat on them to take everything off and try again - Presto!!!

Steve

erics6

The tire guys I use now are good about taking the weights off. Tires balance on the machine but the shaking is still there. No noise from bad bearings either - I've had the mechanics look at that possiblity too.

-Eric

tchase1

I just purchased an '03 OB. Before heading to the mtns., I looked into buying chains. Sometimes in Oregon, they require all vehicles to have chains or traction tires--even 4WD's. I discovered from the local dealer and the owner's manual, there's not enough room in the wheel well to wear chains, but you can order a specially made chain from (I can't remember where).

So is there another alternative? Or do you pass the state police at your own risk? I travel to N. Calif quite a bit, and think the HP there will halt you if you don't have on chains. Any Ore. or N. Calif OB owners have an idea?

hammersley

Eric: are they factory original wheels, or after-market? If they're aftermarket, and the hub hole on the wheel is too big, the wheel could be skewed off-center as it's secured on the hub. There are inserts available that fit to reduce the diameter of the hole to match the hub - solved the same problem for me.

Cheers!
Paul

jfl

IIRC somebody somewhere mentioned a half-shaft problem being the culprit of a difficult to resolve shaking issue.

If it's still there after you rotate, balance, or change the tires it's got to be something else.

Jim

paisan

I'd take the 99 over the 01 in a heartbeat. I love the gen 2 Legacies!

-mike

ateixeira

Tom: first of all, congrats.

I've heard that Z-chains will fit Legacys. Anyone have a link handy?

-juice

subearu

http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm?fa=p&pid=1046&s- c=2717

-Brian

ateixeira

Thanks Papa Bear.

-juice

erics6

Wheels are OE. Problem didn't exist with the OE tires, but they wore badly because they were misaligned from the factory. Shaking started after new tires were put on.

Can somebody explain the half shafts. What would you do to determine if a problem existed?

-Eric

subearu

have you tried rotating the tires around? Maybe that would help isolate the bad wheel(s).

Have they tried remounting the tires? (remove and reinstall the tires on the rims)

Only other thing I'd be curious to see is if you can get the vehicle up on a lift and watch the wheels move. A wobble may be able to be spotted, but I doubt it.

-Brian

tchase1

but I've never paid more than $15-20 for chains before. They're $80, plus spg. I guess there's no other choice??

It's like the man who bought a new tie; then he had to go out and buy a new suit, hat, etc. to match the tie.

ateixeira

Seems cheap compared to getting a full set of snow tires, which would run $600 or more.

-juice

erics6

Cable link chains will work fine. I carry them but I've never been required to use them here in Oregon. They usually close the road before chains on AWD/4WD cars are required.

Tire rotation to the definitely made the shaking worse until a rebalance was done. Tires have been rotated/remounted with no success.

grahampeters

G'day

Have you tried getting a dynamic balance on a proper rolling road. It is hard to locate a shop with this equipment but it sounds like you may have something odd which is onlky apparent in dynamic conditions.

A few possibliities include

Diert on inner wheel surfaces - Scrub clean and wax to prevent recurrence.

Mis-alignment

Accidental damage to roll bar or mounts - I hit and bent a mounting point once and suffered scuffed tyres and shakes for months until I had it looked over on a rolling road

Hope that helps

Cheers

Graham

subearu

If you haven't checked it out yet, http://www.gsp9700.com/ is the Hunter website for their top-of-the-line wheel balancer. There is a link there that lets you search for a service place near you.

-Brian

otis123

Learned something new last night. The wear rating on a tire is based on the tire class. I thought it was a universal rating across all classes.

So, the Michelin Pilot Sports I ordered are rated 400 against other Ultra High performance tires and cannot be compared to my BFGoodrich touring tires that are also rated 400 (and I get 50K miles with).

Very knowledgeable tire expert at BJs told me I can expect ~30K - at most (especially w/ AWD) - only if a rotate every 5K and have perfect alignment, etc.

So, it is back to regular tires for me...and a savings of about $300...

...I can hear the Bean crying in the parking lot...

Ralph

hashman

I've almost always associate cupped tires and shaking with alignment. If you can imagine "toe in" or "toe our" would do all that was described earlier. I saw one...think it was Allience (Renault) that actually skipped on the road every 100 ft.. It was hilarious. till his tie rods popped out.

g'day...

ateixeira

Ralph: I had also heard that the rating was done by its own manufacturer, so even then it's usefullness is limited.

-juice

kmclean

Congrats on the new OB!

I faced the same legal technicality regarding chains (I live just north of Seattle) when I bought my OB 3 years ago. Bought a set of LaClede Cable Type Chains (Stock number 1038) to toss in the back when I head over the passes. Haven't needed them yet, but I note from the slightly frayed price sticker (!) they cost me $29.99 at a local auto store (Schuck's, most likely). I see that LaClede is a Portland company (LaClede Chain Manufacturing Company, Portland, OR, 97210), so I wouldn't expect you'd have much trouble finding them. In case your tire size (or their stock number) has changed, you'll want to check carefully for the correct chain.

Good luck - betcha you won't need them!

Ken in Seattle

tchase1

Thanks for the suggestion. I thought there'd a cheaper way because, as you've discovered in Wash., you only need to carry them in your car here. I've never been stopped (in a AWD/4WD) going over the passes in Ore in bad weather. I called Schuck's and they still carry them for $30.

Once again, this forum has proven to be useful.

stever

I picked up my last two sets at thrift stores for cheap. Mine even fit and work, but if you're just gonna carry them for show anyway....

Steve, Host

self_mechanic

While I was researching for a cable chain for my Bean, I ran across Spike-Spider (alternative to cable cahin) on the web. Has anyone used that type?

P.S. I was in Taiwan last week on a business trip, and I am sad to say that I did not see any current Legacy or outback (2000-2003) model on the street. The most popular cars are Nissan Cerfiro ( equivalent to Maxima)and Toyota Corolla.

Alland

erics6

I've seen the spike-spider on Subaru's and other cars before. Never seen them used in snow though. I'm sure they're a lot easier to pop on then chains. With AWD, for the money that the spider spikes cost I'd get snow tires instead. I find my all season M&S are fine for Oregon's mountain snow.

hammersley

You coasties needing to carry chains, go to Les Schwab. Buy the chains in the fall, carry 'em around, don't use 'em, take 'em back in the spring for a full refund.

And a big thanks for all the surplus liquid sunshine

Cheers!
Paul, in soggy Spokane

mfsb

I know it has been posted before, but could someone tell me what the torque is on my 02 Outback wheels? Just had the tires rotated for the first time and want to check them.

Bill

mtngal

They are quite common up here in the mountains. They have a part that is put on the hub semi-permanently and then you put the part that goes over the tread on when you need them. They seem to be easier to get on and off, you don't have to worry about tension and getting the chain rapped around an axle if they break, and you don't have to replace the whole thing if you break off one part. If you live in the SoCal mountains you don't have to worry about changing out your tires twice a year, or using snow tires when the weather is 80 degrees. They are fairly expensive, and they have somewhat limited sizes. I don't have them because they don't fit the 30X9.5R15 on my Wrangler, but might get them when I'm finally able to replace my Taco with a Subie.

subearu

I'm not sure of the exact number, but I believe it's anywhere between 60-80 ft/pounds. I typically go with 68 ft/pounds on my '00 Outback.

-Brian

K9Leader

Another one for the "too good to be true" file. The guy at Costco (also surprisingly knowledgeable) gave me only a 20K estimate on tread life. I, too, will be looking for something with a few more miles in them.
--K9Leader

hypov

Bill-
You probably could find the specs in the manual section "Flat tire" under "In case of emergency".
According to the Impreza manual, it is 58 - 72 ft lbs. which is pretty much the same with OB.

-Dave

mfsb

Thanks guys.

Bill

leo2633

is 58-72 ft. lbs. on the '02 Outback.

Len

b10609

To CHEECA: Things to consider if moving to Quebec are: a)Canadian models will have metric speedometer,etc which helps when distance/speed in Canada is all KM not MPH b)model specs/prices for Canada can be found visiting www:subaru.ca which is Subaru Canada's website c)think about how long you're staying - it may be better to lease for the expected time you're in Canada rather than buy & take home a car with metric specs which is harder to sell/trade in US d) make sure you order a block heater as Quebec province gives you a northern Vermont winter !! e)note Canadian models come with 3 year AAA/CAA free roadside assistance card included. Final thought: Enjoy your time in Quebec, having lived there it's different & French Canadians are a fun loving bunch - Waterloo, Ontario

raybear

Both countries' cars have the three year roadside package.

If you're living in Canada for any length of time it may be better to get a speedo that reads KPH so you don't kill yourself when the speed limit sign reads "100".

paisan

I'm especially harsh on my tires but I never expect any tire to last more than 20-35K miles. Usually the tread is fine but the compound is worn out and they become very greasy after that many miles. Since it's the only thing between me and the road I check em often and replace em 20-35K miles.

-mike

otis123

Oh well...

Had the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's installed on my LLBean Saturday. Knowledgeable installer showed me all the features of a preminum tire (...this is another thing you paid for...)

Loaded them to 32 psi (my original Firestones ran at 30F and 29R). They feel a little harder - may bring them down to 31 psi. Low noise, tight grip and totally awesome going through a 30' wide stream at 75 mph - not a millisecond of hydroplaning. Very impressive. Now if it would only snow....NO!

Installer torqued each wheel to 80 by hand....

Ralph

nygreg

Saw you today driving out of Wal-Mart/Sams today. I was a passenger in a green Durango. Wheels look good and lots of tread still on those snow tires. Good to "see you".

Greg

fibber2

Spies everywhere!!! Then you probably also know that I was running a bit late... Did the drive thru at Wendy's, then out Rt 52.

Yes, Wally World got my money today. Mostly in the Garden Center, but I also picked up a Fram air filter (CA-9113) for the OB. An inexpensive part (at $6.97 about 1/3 what the OEM costs), but built cheaply as well. The original was fully framed, this is all pliable. I put it in when I got home, but will probably not do that again.

Thanks for your comments. I have really grown to like those wheels. I will miss them during the summer! Get yourself a set with the Dunlops next winter. Believe me, you will be very glad you did.

Steve

hypov

otis123 Mar 24, 2003 1:39pm

Ralph-
Don't forget to re-torque the wheels after ~500 miles.
I think 80 ft. lbs torque is a l'il too much though... 72 ft. lbs is max.

-Dave

stever

In my '97 Outback Limited w/ 34,400 miles on it and trying to figure out if there's any way to kill the "chirp" on the alarm :-) Guess I'll have to play with the search feature in here.

Oh yeah, beautiful sunny weather in Anchorage and mid-30's. Slept through the northern lights Sunday night though thanks to a bit of jet lag.

Steve, Host

ladywclass

I have to get the book out every time and figure out the 'chirp' thing ... when the car was new I took it to a big parking lot away from everything (since I lived in an apt at the time) and played with the remote to find out all the stuff it did and didn't do ... lol

stever

I've actually read the short alarm manual several times now - I don't think this version has a "chirp off" mode. We did find out today that the "siren mode" works fine, LOL.

Steve, Host

subearu

(at least on my '00, this procedure works)

Press both buttons on the FOB for a few seconds, you may get an acknowledgement chirp. That should turn off the chirp-ing. You may need to have the doors closed to do this.

To turn it back on if you so desire, just do the same thing.

-Brian

stever

I'll try that when we get back in 3 days (the "sub-trip" starts early in the am, then the driving south will begin) - the two button trick is how I managed to get the "siren" to quit this morning.

The upcoming 3,000 mile road trip should offer a few opportunities for me to read the rest of the manual too....

Steve, Host

ffsteve

steve, have fun up there, and drive careful on your return. There is at least one here who envys you on your journey. Sounds like fun. Expect a report on your return.

You're one of our hosts? I never knew.

Another steve