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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    Same thing happened to my 2001 VDC at about 10k miles. They sent it off, reinstalled, no problem since.

    I think this happened to quite a few of the VDC's; at least I remember some discussions last year.

    Mike
  • 270r270r Member Posts: 2
    Craig-

    You have mentioned on your earlier post that you have documented the door panel removing process for the new Legacy. It would be great if you could tell me how you have done this since I'm also planning on changing my speakers. Thanks!

    -Kazuo
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Craig,

    Which LLBean speakers did you upgrade? And did it improve the sound alot? Do you feel the speakers contribute more to the weak link OR the amp/receiver unit? Thanks,

    Ralph
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    So, if North American specs are low to include a buffer knowing people will try to overload it, does that mean that the chassis, frame, subframs, drivetrain and tranny are all the same as the foreign models?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Guys, I removed the door panel (driver's side rear) to adjust the window glass. Here's details:

    http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/window/

    The Bean comes with the upgraded speakers, and they sound pretty good to me. They look like decent speakers too, based on what I saw inside the door. The radio also seems to have a decent amount of power.

    My WRX came with the standard speakers, and they totally sucked. I replaced them with Rockford Fosgates, and they sound a heck of a lot clearer, but not as loud. Seems that the WRX radio probably doesn't have enough power to drive them hard. But, it's generally enough for me. I also put the OEM subwoofer in the WRX, and it helps quite a bit. Interestingly, the Bean system has at least as much bass with no subwoofer.

    Craig
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Craig,

    Did you happen to notice the make of the speakers in the Beaner?

    The Bean has the subwoofer as part of the standard audio package, same as the Outback limited. The subwoofer for the system is located at the far back on the right side, in the luggage compartment.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They may or may not have the same hardware. My guess is that it is close. I know on my trooper the only difference in hardware between here and Australia is that they get gas-charged shocks v. hydrolic units installed for the US-bound vehicles.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are "sightly" wider, and it may be just the fenders. I know North American Outbacks have larger tires, but do NOT get a full-size spare, like those overseas.

    Bob
  • senturisenturi Member Posts: 27
    My wife has a '02 OB and we had the service done on the recall of the AT parking rod pawl. However, when I go to My.Subaru.com it still says this service has not been performed. How do I go about correcting this service reminder? I've already added a line for the 3700 mile service. We had the recall work done on April 18th, 2003 at Liberty Subaru.
    Thanks
    senturi
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I find it takes a while (month?) for the dealer inputs to show up on mysubaru.com. You can add an entry showing the service yourself.

    Greg
  • senturisenturi Member Posts: 27
    Thanks Greg. That's what I've done. I posted the recall work as part of the service record.

    senturi
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    The updated information for recall service on my.subaru.com appeared 3 weeks after I sent my Bean to dealer for recall service. It takes time. Only after the dealer notifies SOA, then the information will be updated.

    Alland
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    I wrote to My.Subaru because the recall repair showed up in the "service history" but the recall alert did not go away for my vehicle. I emailed and they said it is a glitchin the system they are trying to work out.
    Cheers
    Matt
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My 02 Bean doesn't have a subwoofer at all. Must be a new thing (03?). I've got the little compartment back there on the right side of the cargo bay, where I keep ropes and tie down straps. I do recall seeing an 02 VDC with a sub in that location, however.

    I didn't actually pull the speaker out of the Bean, but it looked like a decent unit (plastic cone, no whizzer). The WRX speakers didn't have any markings on them at all.

    Craig
  • 270r270r Member Posts: 2
    Craig,

    Thanks for the door panel removal info, but I still have a few more questions if you do not mind me asking.
    How did you remove the power window switch bezel and the door handle trim trim ring? Are these snap on items as well?
    Thank you

    -Kazuo
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    As for the power window switch bezel, I have a hard time remembering, but I think you have to pry it away starting at the top. I believe I used a well padded flat screwdriver,but this can still be risky. A wood tongue depressor or popsicle stick might be a better choice. You're trying to pry away a hard plastic part (bezel) from a soft plastic part (door handle), and there's not a whole lot you can do there!

    The trim ring around the door handle is a royal pain to get off. In fact, I thought it was a pain on the Bean, and the WRX was significantly harder (actually broke one of them). The easiest way to get it off in my opinion is: remove all screws and pop all the door panel fasteners around the edge of the door panel, so the panel is just hanging from the top of the door and held back by the trim ring. Unscrew the whole door handle "cup" assembly (with trim ring attached), and slide it towards the back of the car. It will release from the door frame (still attached by linkages). At this point, you can pull the door panel slightly away from the door (let it still hang from the top however) with the cup assembly. This should allow you to get a much better grip on the trim ring, and it comes off easier. It's hooked onto the cup by tabs around the outer edge and a tab near the lock buton. When the trim ring is off, you can lift the door panel off the door frame. At that point, reattach the cup assembly, making sure the linkages are in place correctly and the handle and lock operate properly. Worst case, if you break a trim ring, they are about $5 each for replacements at Liberty Subaru.

    Good luck! Let me know if you have any other questions.
    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sebastian: I think the major components of the chassis are the same, yes. There is a much wider range of choices in markets like Japan, it's overwhelming if you see the catalogs. I saw 7 (yes, 7) different grilles for the Legacy/Outback.

    -juice
  • llbean30llbean30 Member Posts: 15
    Hi guys, just thought I'd chime in, haven't posted for a while. My 2001 bean has the subwoofer under the front passenger seat.It really does add a lot of punch to the system. In 2001 it was premium sound package #3, and the list price was $635.00 after the package discount. It included the amplified subwoofer, and the in dash 6 disc changer.My opinion is that it is a very good sounding system, at least for my ears.I never felt that I had to add to it, or change anything.I've heard the system without the subwoofer, and I feel it is flat without the added punch the sub gives.
     On another subject, I'm getting ready to take my bean to the dealer and demand a new set of front rotors, the car shudders whenever you make a stop from 30mph or more.It's been that way since new, and also squeaks like heck when backing out of the garage first thing in the morn, or whenever the brakes are cold.Only have about 13000 miles on it so far.
       And if anyone remembers my posts from last year about the lousy firestone tires, they never did satisfy me on that complaint, and I'm still driving on tires that shimmy at high speeds.

    Luck to all---Jack
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Jack - the brake squeal in reverse has a fix from Subaru. it works 99% of the time on my 2001 OB.

    Another note: back a couple 100 posts, we had a brake failure issue that was unsolved. Having not gotten more info from the poster maybe it never will be. But I had an interesting occurance last night. Pulling into a parking spot my brakes didn't seem to work! After lightly hitting the curb, I realized I was pushing on both the gas and the brake. Seems I didn't slide my foot fully onto the brake peddle. When I pushed the brake I got a little gas too...Instant sensation of no brakes.

    Next oil change I'm going to see if the brake possition can be adjusted a little higher.

    --jay
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ask about the brake shim kit, I think it was intended for H6 models.

    There's a braks master cylinder recall on the 2003 that I found but that poster ignored. Oh well.

    OE tires are a compromise, I'd consider replacing them even before they're fully worn. I got rims and tires at 28k and I'm *much* happier with my customized choice.

    -juice
  • prometheus67prometheus67 Member Posts: 4
    Hi, all. Sorry for the delay in responding. Here's some more details.

    Last month, I purchased a new 2003 Outback Legacy LL Bean, black, with approximately 51 miles on it, from Herb Gordon Subaru in Silver Spring, MD at a price of $25,320.

    My conclusion: if you're in the market for a new car, consider the Costco program.

    [The rest of this is kinda long, but if you're interested in my "Costco experience" read on.]

    Costco has a program for buying cars where you just log in to their website and fill out information about the car you are looking for.

    [Note: I originally was looking for the Outback wagon with an H6 that just came out, but that wasn't listed on the Costco website -- too new, I guess!]

    You also list your contact information and you're told that a Costco authorized representative will contact you.

    I received a phone call the next day telling me the price of the H6 sedan, which is what I selected since the wagon was not listed. Since I wanted the wagon, she also gave me the price for the LL Bean, which I thought was quite low at the time, since it was less than what Edmunds said the Outback H6 (non-Bean) would be selling for.

    Well, I continued shopping for the car I wanted. I contacted dealerships directly and I also used Auto-by-Tel (which is how I bought my Legacy GT in '99) and AutoVantage. One local dealer had the Outback H6 (non-Bean), but it was more expensive than every other LL Bean quote I received!

    Anyway, I actually received two quotes from Herb Gordon: one through the Costco program and one through the Auto-by-Tel program. The Costco program was exactly $200 less than the Auto-by-Tel program. I don't know why there are two different people handling the two different programs, but there are.

    So, my wife and I drove up there the next day intending to pay cash for that baby (since we didn't think we'd qualify for the 0% financing with our mortgage payment). Well, we test drove it (during which my wife said, "Why are we bothering to drive it? Let's just buy it."), then said we'd buy it, got approved for the 0% 24-month financing, and drove out of there with a shiny new car and nothing out of our pockets (first payment due next week).

    The upshot is that I recommend the Costco Auto program very strongly.

    Kory...
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Congrats. Good luck keeping the black clean! :)

    Greg
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Has anyone come across a decent repair manual for the current (2000-2003) version of the Legacy/Outback? Based on mileage, I'll soon be crossing the Rubicon of warranty expiration. As much as I like the thought of picking up the OEM manuals, I don't want to spend $400 or end up with binders that take up 3 feet of shelf space.

    As an alternative, does the AllData site offer decent documentation with illustrations? I perused the 'demo' section but the stuff therein was pretty basic, and did not seem to have many graphics. I was just curious if getting a license actually gets you more than the demo seems to indicate.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Welcome to the problem that almost killed Audi in the USA. The 'unintended acceleration' issue was basically due to what you described - pedal placement made it all too easy to catch or even fully engage the accelerator when trying for the brake.

    So at least you know what that event was about, and luckily you didn't do any real damage by the experience. Property damage and even some deaths surrounded the Audi incidents. I am, however, a bit concerned about the report of pedal sinking when the engine was hot (sorry - I cannot remember who mentioned it, but it was from a legitimate member of the crew...). It sounds like something a bit beyond brake fade / air in lines at play as it was described to recover very quickly, IIRC.

    The recall on the '03 master cyl issue sounds to me like a situation where the pressure will not release, not that it wouldn't be applied. There was, however, a recall in the late '90's for a master cyl problem in very cold conditions. I need to check that bulletin for details.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    There are no aftermarket manuals available such as Chiltons/Motors/Haynes. However, there is no shortage of info available if you are willing to hunt.

    For example, Wrenchend.com is the private repair shop support publication from Subaru. They have a wealth of articles on a variety of common problems, plus some super general information narratives.

    Ravensblade Impreza has put a lot of data together, some of which applies to the current series Legacy/Outback. He even includes some pages from the shop manual.

    I occasionally borrow my friends '99 Forester shop set. I have no real needs yet ('02 OBW), but much of the data applies. For me it has just been informative reading....

    There are some other strange sources out there, but I have only visited their web sites. For example, autocd.ru is an overseas web site that can get you data for a price. Source and quality unknown....

    Hope this overview helps,

    Steve
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    You can buy individual volumes of the manual. It's not necessary to purchase the whole set.

    Jim
  • prometheus67prometheus67 Member Posts: 4
    Sorry, folks! It was not 25,320 as listed in post #8248, but rather 26,340.

    Didn't mean to give anyone a heart attack!

    Kory...
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I've looked at the factory manuals at my Subaru dealer, and they're a nightmare. They're a seemingly intentional random compendium of topics that follow no rational sequence of technical instruction. Wheel bearings on page 10, header attaching bolts on page 11, then how to change a fuel filter on page 12 - maddening. The topics are often repeated with slightly different treatment several times through the various manuals (at least a half dozen for each model!). I bought a Haynes manual for mine because it was my only choice, though it is only for a light treatment and I'm not sure it's available for your model.

    By comparison, factory service manuals for previous vehicles I've purchased (in the dozen range now) were confined to 1-2 manuals totalling 2 inches and covered EVERYTHING concisely and clearly. I have no idea what Subaru is thinking - even the techs felt their factory manual (which, BTW is also what your techs use at the dealerships to work on your car) strategy was nutty. My impression of Subaru factory manuals is that they wrote a normal nice manual, then took all the individual pages and dropped them off the Subaru roof and had passersby stack them up randomly for binding. Before binding, they put them in a blender and randomly copied about 75% of the pages for no apparent reason.

    IdahoDoug
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    I consider Haynes to be the best manuals around. Very concise and step-by-step for the DIYer. Factory manuals are a little more hit or miss. I agree that the Soobie manual is a bit illogical. Volume 1 which covers routine maintenance includes bleeding brakes but not changing pads...

    Jim
  • hgutsteinhgutstein Member Posts: 65
    But have WRX.. Wife wants to buy L special edition wagon. any ideas on how to get the best price, and around what it should be???

    Thanks,

    Howard
  • retiredguyretiredguy Member Posts: 67
    I was talking to a dealer in San Antonio this past week..he said there are only two colors that he had that I might like..but, there is silver and gold not on his lot, could it be that there will be no more shipments..or he wants to move his present inventory...
  • retiredguyretiredguy Member Posts: 67
    I test drove an automatic Outback that seemed to exhibit a moderate amount of road noise..My past experience with tires is that they can noisier as the miles accumulate.

    The noise was high enough to me to not want the car, the salesman did not believe it was noisy. This could be because wagons and suv style cars are noisier than sedans and it is accepted.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Steve mentioned Wrenchend.com. The site is actually http://www.endwrench.com

    DaveM
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $26,340 from Costco sounds more down to earth. The $25k price did sound a little too good to be true.

    Welcome Howard. To get an idea of street prices, take a peek at fitzmall.com. They're a no-haggle dealer and aren't close to you, but should act as a good baseline for pricing.

    Just to give you an idea, they have 22 Legacys at under $20 grand. Keep in mind that mix includes sedans, wagons, 5 speeds, and automatics. They're about $900 under invoice, so I imagine there is a $750 or $100 incentive locally.

    As for noise, wagons are noisier than sedans because you have 8 windows instead of 6. The cargo area can also make the noise seem worse. But sample an H6 model, those have extra sound proofing and I found them very quiet. My wife didn't even realize when the engine was running.

    -juice
  • senturisenturi Member Posts: 27
    My wife has an '02 Base OB with AT. The other day while I was getting gas at the local gas station, I accidently turned the ignition switch while the engine was running. You ask how can this happen? It was early in the morning, and I had just filled up the tank. I did not hear the engine running. This car is very quiet. Of course I got the shock I did not need so early in the AM. The noise #!#*# of the turning starter motor was plain enough. This has never happened to me before. Just a note my Mercury Sable has an ignition lock once the engine is running, the key cannot be turned again. I'm glad my wife was not with me at the time. I'm sure this is not good for the car. Subie please forgive me.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I bet we all have done this before (I have a few times), but I don't think it can really hurt unless you do it a lot or crank the starter for a long time.

    Last time I remember doing this, my wife was in the car and busted my chops. She should be used to me being an idiot by now!

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Ah, you would think that every mfg would disable the starter when the engine is running, but unfortunately this is not the case.

    When the motor spins, a tapered tooth assembly attempts to drive forward to engage the outer toothed edge of the flex plate (AT equivilent of a fly wheel). With the flex plate in motion, the leading edge scrapes along, not being able to engage. Lots of noise, but probably very little damage on a one-time occurance. Just promise your car that you will never do this again!!!

    Steve
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    A useful site, thanks.

    One fascinating fact I found...if your brake fluid gets low enough to turn the warning light on, the DRLs don't work. I do understand the electrical reason behind this but the real life impact (!) is less than desirable. (Imagine some idiot who's fluid is so low that the brakes might not work properly and who now has no DRLs either.)

    But I forgot; idiots don't buy Subarus, do they?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Everyone has a little hiccup once in a while, I'm sure no harm was done.

    -juice
  • hgutsteinhgutstein Member Posts: 65
    I will look at Fitzmall. It turns out that's where my wife bought her last car before moving to Texas!

    The edmunds TMV prices seem to be about 4-500 around invoice here in Houston, so I will nose around. That is a far better deal than the IMBA invoice price, but at least its a good place to start.

    Any idea what the dealer holdback is for Subaru?

    Thanks,

    Howard
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The VIP price is actually invoice minus whatever rebates and/or incentives are in effect.

    We paid $750 under invoice for our 2002 Legacy last May under the VIP.

    -juice
  • llbean30llbean30 Member Posts: 15
    Hi fellow suby people, I just thought I'd update anyone who's interested in the disposition of my brake shudder problem. I've had this problem since the 01 ll bean was new. Now at 13000 miles I finally insisted they do something about it. I took it in to dealer and they said the rear rotors were out about 3 thousandths. and they would resurface them. I insisted for new ones, to no avail. They did the work and also installed the shim kit on the fronts(to address the squeak situation, that I also had since new).About 2 hours later they said It was done and I left. I got about one block and knew it wasn't right. You really had to stand on them to stop, and there was grinding noise from the rears.Drove back in and told them. After the service mgr drove the car, (the service writer who i dealt with originally did not believe me), he determined that I had a legitimate concern. He took it back in, and resurfaced the rears again and sanded some additional material from the pads.It now feels almost right.But I know I have lost thousands of miles of use from the rear rotors and pads, and the service mgr insists, that subaru will not replace rotors, before they cut them a few times.
    So bottom line is I am scrwd once again by subaru. I'm still driving on the lousy firestone tires that came with the car and shimmied from day one, and subaru wouldn't help me get them replaced...
    Really makes you want to buy another subaru doesn't it....
    Luck to all --Jack......
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Usually they'll cut them once, maybe twice. I can't imagine doing it several times.

    I wouldn't worry about the pads, I doubt scuffing them would reduce their life significantly. Rotors, yes. The surface is hardened to begin with, so once they're cut they won't last as long.

    Tires are cheap, why not replace them yourself? Firestone warranties them anyway, not Subaru, that's pretty universal in the industry. Go to a Firestone store and see if they'll give you partial credit, then you could get some Bridgestone RE910 tires, which are quite good.

    Just a suggestion. I would not let $400 worth of tires spoil ownership of a $26,000 vehicle.

    Try the tire dealer and keep us posted?

    -juice

    Edit: RE910 tires
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Jack,

    Give Subaru Customer Service a call to find out about the rotors. My dealer just went ahead and replaced them, rather than cutting. He said they were too worn to cut (I had about 35500 miles at the time). I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not, but it's worth a shot. They were done under warranty as well.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That number is 800-SUBARU3. It would not hurt to open a case with them for their records, it might come in handy later. Be polite to the Help Desk staff, I used to work for one and it's a tough job! :-)

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Thanks Juice, I can never remember that number.

    Mark
  • gtlimitedguygtlimitedguy Member Posts: 6
    Brian: I also work for the SBDC, so I understand how much demographic 'crap' is out there. You do have to sort through the stuff until you find solid information.

    When I bought my car last summer...I really wanted an OB Limited with sunroofs. My friends talked me out of it...saying that a 27 yo single guy shouldn't drive a wagon. I guess I am far from the typical profile of the OB driver. I ended up with a GT Limited sedan...which is great but just not very practical to haul stuff home from Lowes. I wonder if there is any demographic info out there on my car...every other one seems to be driven by 40ish women. Hmmmm...

    I don't care what the demographics say...I love my Subaru and can't imagine driving any other brand. I have had a few problems with mine that haven't been resolved...so I might end up trading out of this one. Last weekend I looked at a new LL Bean edition...and if the numbers work out I might just take the leap! I will let you know!
  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Member Posts: 103
    I've heard there-s a recall for legacies and ob's 2000-2001. Did anyone hear about this? tx
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    Another SBDC employee? Small world! I never put too much stock in demographics, in spite of that being my line of work. They are great for averages and guidelines, but beyond that they typically fall apart.

    Brian
  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Member Posts: 103
    I've heard there-s a recall for legacies and ob's 2000-2001. Did anyone hear about this? tx
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