Subaru Legacy/Outback

ladywclass

I probably will replace the other two within a couple months ...

kmclean

It's a great town. In fact, it's where I had the first opportunity to give my [then] new OB its first real snow test when we skied at Mt. Bachelor in February 2001. The skiing is great because of lots of snow, great lifts, and fairly few skiers - mainly because Bend is a bit off the beaten path (only a dink airport in Redmond). The downtown, while small, really hops, with many restaurants, brewpubs (Deschutes is located there), and cutesy shops (for those so inclined) all packed into about eight walkable blocks (two parallel 4-block sets on opposite one-way streets - a strangely common practice in small Oregon towns). Sisters is worth checking out, too, but mega-touristy.

Summer is just as good, with lots to do in the high desert - fishing, golf, river rafting, hiking, etc. Being on the east side of the cascades, they get lots of sunshine. It's on my short list of possible retirement locations when I can finally depart the rat race for good.

SOB = souls on board (a now slightly archaic aeronautical term for passengers).

Cheers!

Ken in Seattle

jrosasmc

In terms of cargo-carrying capacity and overall passenger room, which wagon is larger: the Subaru Legacy/Outback or the VW Passat? And of the two, which would be the most reliable for the long-term?

20llbean

Haven't been on the board as I have out of the country. I have 32K on the original firestones and have had the scheduled rotations thru the LLbean maintenance package. However, the steering wheel will shimmy when braking at high speeds, like highway speeds. I had brakes replaced as they were due (car has a lot of stop and go traffic when wife and errands) but the problem still remains. I am thinking that the wheels need a balancing as they have before. Any suggestions as to the cuase of the problem? Thanks.

c_hunter

I looked at the specs on Edmunds, and the cars are very close. The Passat appears to give a bit more shoulder room, and has 1.7 cu.ft more cargo space. Otherwise, they are very close -- Legacy is equal or slightly larger in the other dimensions.

I've known several VW owners who have had major problems with their cars. Personally, I own three Subarus (have had four overall), and they all have been great cars. As a former Honda guy, I think that's quite good.

My main beef with VW is that they seem overpriced to me, and I can't see paying more for a car with questionable reliability. But, I do like the styling and design of VW -- they look nice, and have great interiors. In fact, the interior of the current Legacy probably looks plain in comparison. The 05 Legacy, coming out next spring, will have a much more modern and "cool" design, inside and out. In fact, the cars have an Audi look/theme.

Craig

c_hunter

If the shimmy only happens when you hit the brakes, my guess would be that you need to have your front rotors resurfaced. This is quite common on Outbacks (happened on my 2000 Outback and 2002 Bean). However, the fix is quick and painless (and should be covered under the 36K warranty). Most dealers can resurface the rotors right on the car, in very short amount of time. If you explain it to the dealer, they ought to be able to diagnose and fix it in a couple of hours.

Many places automatically resurface the rotors when new pads are installed, but it sounds like your dealer/shop did not.

Craig

bgabel1260

I considered the Passat in 2001 before I bought my Accord. I was turned off by the high cost when you start to add options and the questionable reliability. VW is near the bottom in the JD Power Initial Quality survey, though their Mexican built vehicles may be the root cause there. (Now think about it: they use cheap labor and still charge a Euro-car premium. Blah!) I know the Passat is still built in Germany and supposedly holds up better than the Golf/Jetta/Beetle. I've talked to VW owners around here and they complain all the time about how long it takes to get parts in (from Germany?). I don't like buying a car with a big question mark so I passed and bought the proven and staid Accord.

On hindsight I should have passed on the Accord as well and bought a Legacy. The Accord was a finely-built car but really quite boring to drive and a menace in the snow...and there's just too many of them on the road!

ateixeira

A FWD Passat (without 4Motion) is a little bigger, but 4Motion models have a bigger center tunnel and that costs some space. Overall they are close enough in size that you should use other criteria to pick the one you like.

With Subaru, you can get AWD for $19k, on a Legacy. Passat only offers 4Motion on high-end models, so starting prices are more like $30k. Even then, an LL Bean offers the same equipment for about $4 grand less, and holds the edge in long-term reliability.

Just to erase any doubts, get an LL Bean model and a 7/100 warranty. It still costs less.

-juice

nematode

What it boiled down to was (in 2000):
Subaru OB Ltd: $26k street price (with some extras)
VW Passat 4-Motion: $32k at 4 dealers.

The Passat was better but not $6000 better!!!

erics6

You're giving the secret of Bend away Ken. Actually, I think the secret is already out. Bend has grown tremendously in the past 10-15 years. I believe it's the fastest growing county in Oregon. I remember Bend in the early 80's - very different than what it is now. Back then, it really was "small town."

ateixeira

VW does offer a W8 engine in the 4Motion, but that puts it in the luxury price range. I heard they aren't selling well and might discontinue the W8.

Too bad they don't have a 1.8T 4Motion, like Audi offers.

-juice

nematode

1) The W8 wagon gets very close to $40k.
2) Its not selling well. So its closer $37k.
3) The W8 may be gone soon. Its really complex for a 4L engine that does not make 300hp.

The W8 is a nice wagon but I would lean toward the FX35 or V70 R ($40k) at that price just to avoid the VW dealer "experience".

ncvol

I think the problem with the W8 is that people buying a Passat aren't typically the type who cares about an 8 cylinder engine, and certainly aren't going to pay $5-6k more just to get that and xenon headlights (like a Mercedes buyer might to get the E430 over the E320).

ateixeira

Food for thought, Subaru has to be very careful if they step into that price arena.

-juice

jrosasmc

My parents and I have decided to take the plunge and seriously try for a used Subaru wagon. We've already decided that Passats and V70s, even used, are out of our price range. We are currently looking at a '99 Legacy L wagon, automatic, one-owner, 43k miles. The dealer's asking $10.7k for it. I know that this car won't have Volvo-like levels of solidity and performance (we have two by the way), but is a '99 with this mileage still an excellent buy?

paisan

Doubt you'll have many problems with it. The '99 2.2 is great. I run a '96 Impreza L with the same engine in track and auto-x and it has 155K miles on it and still going strong! It's an automatic also.

-mike

ncvol

Food for thought, Subaru has to be very careful if they step into that price arena

I'd agree. They seem to be having enough problems convincing people to pay $30k for the VDC. Every review I read on that car seems to have an obligatory paragraph saying "sure it's got everything you could want, but $30K for a Subaru!?!?"

ateixeira

I agree with mike, in fact I'm tempted to say the 2.2l is the most robust engine ever made by Subaru.

The auto trannys are also robust, in fact mike's car is not the exception, it's the rule.

The H6 has actually been great but it doesn't have the proven track record that the 2.2l has. The 2.5l has had some gaskets failures, so it cannot match the 2.2l.

If you think about it, they both come from the same block, so it's like the 2.2l is over-engineered.

-juice

paisan

In fact... I shortly will be going into the 2nd step of my project L. We've narrowed it down to putting an SC onto the 2.2L engine, hopefully boost it up to 200hp

-mike

ateixeira

From which vendor?

-juice

paisan

Mike's Garage/AZP Installs

As far as I know there are no SC kits for subies on the market.

-mike

ateixeira

Wow, where will you get the blower from? Junk yard T-Bird S/C? Corrado, maybe?

-juice

paisan

Maybe a new one. Thinking of the Eaton units, they seem very self contained. I would like to put it right where my AC compressor is as we'll be yanking that out when we put in the SC.

-mike

lark6

Considering paisan's love for all things GM, it wouldn't surprise me if he grafted on a S/C from a Buick Regal. ;-)

Ed

paisan

I actually like GM the most of all the US companies And GM uses the Eaton Units in their cars so there is a good chance I might just do that! I'm also thinking of using a thick head-gasket to provide lower compression, I vaguely remember Mark the dealer who's my performance guru telling me that it's one of the preferred methods to lower compression.

-mike

lark6

I could probably hook you up with a good old rebuilt Paxton/McCullough if you wanted to go that route.

Yep, playing with gasket thickness is a good way to vary compression ratios on supercharged engines.

Ed

ateixeira

Gaskets are easier to change than pistons, that's for sure.

Why not a Ludespeed turbo? I guess you want the low-end?

-juice

paisan

The problem is that the 2.2L has a single port-exhaust so none of the uppipes/headers from the 2.5l engines will work on it, and since it's race only, we figure who cares about the gas milage and the lack of lag will be good, heck I can run race fuel if I want in it

-mike

ateixeira

If so you won't have to worry about compression. But then it becomes strictly for track.

-juice

paisan

Found a company that makes UP/DP for the WRX turbo units to adapt them to the 2.2L Looks like I will probably go that route since i can get a turbo + IC plus most of the piping for next to free. Only issues left will be oil and coolant lines, and then injectors and SAFAC to control the fuel.

-mike

ateixeira

OK, now adapt one of those bad boys to the H6 Outback and get back to us! )

-juice

paisan

Actually, I'm sure that if someone made the UP/DPs it wouldn't be rocket science to get it to work.

-mike

dcm61

Stopped at the dealer this morning to see if they had any '04 Outback or Legacy brochures. Nope.

I confirmed that the '04 LL Bean has the '03 Baja wheels. We already know the '04 35th aniv edition (cloth H-6) has the '04 Baja Turbo wheels.

Also saw an '04 LL Bean Champagne Opal monotone. Looked nice. I noticed it had black (unpainted) sideskirts and lower front / rear bumpers. They also had a two tone '04 LL Bean but I had the "normal" titanium sideskirts and bumpers.

DaveM

ateixeira

Weird, why not paint the side skirts on the monotone model? Subaru insists on two colors, I guess.

Even our Legacy L has painted side skirts! The WRX does not, BTW.

-juice

jay_24

What are people using for bike racks? I want to carry 3 or 4 bikes either on the rook rack of my Outback. The roof rack models seem $$$. Big dollars for the cross bars and then more money for the bike carriers. Maybe a hitch mount is better or cheaper?

--Jay

ateixeira

If you already have a hitch, it might be.

I have the OE hitch and the OE bike rack. The OE hitch is solid, 7 bolts hold it in place, and it's a nice custom fit, plus it comes with the harness.

The bike rack only carries two bikes, though I have on one occasion strapped a 3rd bike to it. I would look for one that is designed to carry more, though.

You can carry a tongue weight of up to 200 lbs, but that includes the rack itself. Then again, the roof can only hold 150 lbs, so capacity is greater, not smaller.

-juice

bkaiser1

I use a Yakima Load Warrior rack with 3 bike carriers mounted to it...the whole thing mounts directly to the factory flat or round bars. Of the many, many roof racks I've owned over the years, I prefer this setup because it's so portable...4 bolts and it's off one car and on to another. When I traded my Outback in for my WRX, I simply bolted the rack onto the new bars and was off in minutes. The Load Warrior cage has been very handy over the past few years, even when I'm not carrying bikes. Drop me a line if you want pics of the setup.

Brian

ateixeira

I got you beat - just one bolt secures my carrier to the hitch, and you don't need tools. It even folds so you can open the hatch.

-juice

blackbean

I already owned a Thule system that I used on my previous cars, so when I got the Subaru I just needed to attach it to the load bars. You can get 4 regular bikes up there, although it is tight (you have to alternate the bikes facing forward and back).

One thing that is nice about the Thule system is that without the attachments (ski, bike, kayak etc..), the load bars make a great flat surface for loads. I have carried many sheets of plywood, doors, fencing etc. on top of my Bean. Hard to do that with a "bikes only" rack or a hitch mount.
Thought that may help with the "long-term" decision.
Matt

ateixeira

I have managed to carry plywood sheets on the standard roof rack's cross bars. 4 or 5 sheets in one trip, IIRC.

The 1998-2002 Forester have handles at the end of the roof rails that make excellent tie-downs. I think the Outback Sport may be the only other Subie that has them built-in like that.

I was going to share a photo but ImageStation is crawling slow today.

-juice

jay_24

The Thule roof system looks good since one option is to attach the bike carriers direct to the subie rack.
The hitch option (like Juice's) might be better although I need to get the hitch, but then I can pull my 4x8 trailer too.
The Yakima solution (like Brian's) looks interesting, and flexible, but probably the most $$.

nygreg

My "portable", strap on bike rack is not stable enough and I am starting to think about a hitch vs. roof system. I am looking at 3 bikes minimum. I think the hitch is probably the most convenient. I am hoping my Subaru Bucks can help here. Any comments on which people like better - hitch mounted or roof mounted?

Greg

dudleyr

What about parallel parking with the hitch mount? Any problems with getting bikes dinged by another vehicle? How far does it stick out - do they protrude from parking spaces.

Of course the counterpoint is do you drive into garages if you have a roof mount?

steine13

I have a Sienna minivan, so the rack is pretty high up there... Even though I have bike attachments from a previous car, I use a Graber trunk rack instead ($100-110). It holds up to 4 bikes; 3 easily, is VERY sturdy if installed right, and without bikes, it's easy to lift the hatch.
I don't like the rack as much with a sedan, but that's okay... with a hatch, it's great.
Also leaves the roof free for a canoe or two.
-Mathias

haemon

I am a new Subaru owner ('01, Legacy GT Limited). I am hearing wind noise coming from the driver's side front window. Has anyone else experienced that? If so, how did you correct it? Do you think a wind deflector would correct the problem? Thanks!

ateixeira

Yeah, they'll always take up more space with bikes loaded.

Think about it, though - do you really need to parallel park where you take bikes? Usually parallel parking is only used in crowded cities, not near bike paths.

Even if they're on the roof, the only garage I'd be concerned about would be my own car port.

It should be a matter of what fits your needs. I also have a roof top carrier, so I couldn't put the bikes there. I also already had the hitch, so that made it cheaper too. I can haul bikes and still use the roof for gear.

haemon: the deflector itself is supposedly noisy, too noisy for SoA to even bring the accessory and sell it here. The window track can be adjusted, though, someone even managed doing that themselves.

-juice

fibber2

I love the hitch mounted rack on my Subi, and am thinking about adding a hitch to the Ody for just this use.

It is more difficult finding a larger rack (3-4 bikes) for the small 1.25x1.25" receiver, but they are out there. Someone posted a few P/N's a few weeks ago.

If you buy the Subi hitch, I will help you put it on!!!

Steve

c_hunter

It could be a bad seal at the rubber "gusset" piece (down near the mirror/tweeter area). Try pressing on the seal and see if it makes a difference. That rubber piece can be replaced and/or the window can be adjusted to make a better seal.

Craig

nygreg

I am thinking installing one in the spring. I guess a 2" receiver should work well for various attachments.

Greg

slickdog

I too have heard the wind noise on the driver's side of my wife's '01 OB, but haven't yet spent much time attempting to track it down. It's difficult to determine where exactly the sound comes from, except that it is definitely coming from somewhere near the driver's side front window. I did notice while looking around outside both front doors that the driver side front window appears to be positioned a bit farther forward than the passenger side front window when closed, but I don't know if that means anything.