Subaru Legacy/Outback

bat1161

I have the 2000 OB 5spd with the rear deflector. The window still gets dirty if its raining out. The car is great otherwise.

Mark

mhjamerson

I have a 1996 Legacy Outback S/W with an automatic transmission and approximately 93000 miles. When I am turning the vehicle at low RPMs/speed it makes a 'clunking' noise and a 'shuddering' movement. It often does this when pulling into or out of a parking space or when making a 180 degree turn (as when making a U-turn) or a sharp 3-point turn.

Any ideas as to what the problem might be? I plan on taking it to the dealership - however, I have no experience with the local dealer and would like to have a sense of the differential diagnosis before dealing with them (so that they cannot give me the run-around). Thanks for any advice/info/help.

evilizard

My guess is something to do with the tie rods or steering control. Had the same problem with a couple of cars in the past. Usually resulted in replacing boots and joints of some sort or another. Crawl under the car and check out all the rubber bellow looking coverings (there should be 6 in the front 1/3 of the car) if any of them are cracking the need to replaced asap. If any are torn or split its a good bet the joint it protects needs replacing as well.

hondafriek

I do have the rear spoiler but I was having the crud problem before I put the spoiler on, it just seems to be an inherent problem with the aerodynamics of the car.

I cannot change the problem so you learn to live with it, it in no way deminishs how I feel about the car overall I just think it is awesome, quiet and smooth on the highway, I find I have to constantly check the speedometer as the car is so smooth it is very easy to be well over the speed limit and not realise it.

Cheers Pat.

kmclean

Betcha the problem is a bad CV joint (hopefully not jointS). Classic symptoms. If you get under the (front of the) car and can find a damaged (torn) or dislodged boot (typically the outer one that attaches to the "inside of the wheel" area), you can almost bet that enough crud has gotten in on those bearings to damage them (hence the shuddering). This problem tends to be unilateral, but I can't recall if shuddering when turning to the left indicates that it's the left bearing that's damaged (or the opposite one).

I've heard that if you get the bearings cleaned off real well and lube 'em up, you might effect a short-term fix. In the long run, however, you just install a new bearing/half-axle assembly. It's the labor in that job that is the major expense, not the part (usually), in my experience.

Good luck - hope I'm wrong!

Ken M.

grahampeters

G'day

I'll just echo the above comments. Almost certainly a CV joint at this sort of mileage. Checking the condition of the rubber boots around them is one of the critical functions of a detailed service on any car with front wheel drive or independent suspension.

The failure mechanism is that the boot perishes (not common these days) or is torn in some way. This allows grit into the bearing which then chews itself out. When the car is running straight this is not too severe a problem as the line of drive is fairly constant. The problem comes when you turn a corner and the CV joint is asked o transmit power around a bend. You then hear the clunking as metal rubs against metal.

It is usually a shop job to repair tham and it is worth getting them all looked at together. I have not looked under my 99 OB but presume that there are four pairs of CV joints as the car has an independent rear end.

Cheers

Graham

2ndwnd

Well, guess there aren't any body-shop folks out there. Anyway, my wife called the place where my wagon's at (she's better at getting these type of things straightened out)and now the estimated completion date is the 29th rather than July 7th. What's even better is they'll be paying for the rental car costs that the insurance won't cover.

nygreg

For what it's worth - I recently changed the half axles (CV joints) in my FWD Camry. The part was $65 rebuilt (not new) for each axle. Without time I had a local mechanic do both. Cost was $ 325 for parts and labor. On this car when you made a sharp turn you would hear clicking. It didn't make it until trade in time, so I had to replace them. Mileage was 180,000 at the time.

-Greg

kturner1

I checked out the seat site you posted, then felt around my L seat. It seems to have the same kind of lumbar spring. As my seats seem to be getting used to each other, I'll hold off on making any adjustments. Thanks for the post, though.

hypov

Keith.
I'm not the brightest (in fact I don't even have a filament in my bulb) amongst the ACEs here, but glad I could contribute.

Cheers

jim2741

I own a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS sedan 5sp and I often notice a slight studder when in second gear, nothing too serious though, just enough to notice. I have also had some difficulty starting the car, this has been a more serious issue. It seems that it catches too early and sometimes it takes a couple tries to get it started, which is unusual for such a new car. I know someone who has an OB sedan and he seems to have the same problem. Actually as my car has more miles on it now (37K - Yikes!) the starting episodes seem to be more infrequent so I haven't bothered to take it in. Anyone else experience these starting problems?

pdubois

When I got my 2K Outback in August 1999, I immediately felt the need for a rear wiper delay. I could not find anything on the market that would do the job completely, so I bought a simple wiper delay and modified it by adding an external timer and relay. I posted the schematic in 99, with a link on this board, for information purpose, on my scapbook web page.

I have used it since without any problem. The way it works is as follows: I turn the rear wiper on and it works normally for about 10 seconds, then it goes automatically into intermittent mode. Turning the wiper off and on resets it for another 10 seconds followed by intermittency. The intermittency interval is set by the commercial rear wiper delay.

I am not an electronician so it may not be the most elegant way of doing this, but it works! I fitted the rear wiper delay and external timer relay right behind the small vertical compartment with a door, on the right handside of the trunk (where all necessary wires are easily accessible). My Subaru service manager drove my car for a week to check a transmission problem and she said she really liked the wiper feature...

Pat (Canada).

varig

I am researching a number of vehicles to replace my 1988 Toyota. I test drove an Outback LLBean at a local dealership. They did not have a VDC (my preference) on the lot, but I figured it would be "close" enough for me to determine if I should keep Subaru on the "short list". The test drive went well. I thought the Subaru handled well and the engine was smooth. However, I did notice that the back window appeared distorted expecially when viewed through the rear view mirror when driving AWAY from the sun. When driving INTO the sun, I did not notice the rear window distortion. The best way I can describe the distortion is that it looked like the glass was melting. It was fairly annoying and it concerns me that it may be a compromise in safety. I checked carreview.com and there were some negative comments regarding long term build quaility of Subaru. I am not so naive as to expect no negative comments, but it has raised doubt in my mind if I will be happy with a Subaru several years from now. I've already eliminated Toyota Highlander from consideration (engine grinding noise, does not handle as well as Outback), now I need to decide if Subaru will stay on the list. I know the Outback VDC is fairly new, so there is no long term experience, but I would appreciate comments from owners of VDC or older model Outback vehicles. Thanks in advance.

pattim3

Good Morning. We have not had a lot of negative quality issues with the VDC. Before they were released in the U. S., we were able to do some long term testing in Japan and did not come up with any issues related to the drivetrain. The "Mac" stereo is new to us, but so far so good.

I'm surprised your dealer did not have a VDC for you to try. Are they expecting any soon? Who is your dealer.

As for the glass distortion, this is new to me. We can check it out for you if you'd like.

Patti

grahampeters

G'day

This is the Australian perspective where our cars are built in Japan, however the following may help.

Overall Subaru build quality is excellent with a significant proportion of purchasers being repeat buyers. Before buying in 1999, I asked every Subaru owner I could about their views on the car and the most common response was " Well, this is our nth Subaru".

Subsequently, I have found that one hazard of Subaru ownership is that people approach you on the street to determine your views on Subarus. This ties up with the profile that emerges from contributors to these pages. Subaru owners tend to be analytical, very rational types (there seem to be a lot of engineers, computer people and accountants) who look for long term value for money. The down side is that research on these pages suggest that your forename should be Dave and an Apple Mac is almost obligatory.

After the problems I experienced with a Mercedes before buying my Outback, I had expectations of dramas. The actual ownership experience has been far different.

I do not expect any appliance, particularly one as complex as a modern car to be absolutely trouble free but hope that any problems will be rectified promptly. That has been my experience. My car has been subject to two recalls, one relating to a tow hitch supplied by a third party and the second for a check on a fuel tank plug. Both were handled perfectly.

In fact the contrast between the superb way in which Subaru managed their recall compared with my very sad experience with Mercedes, formed the basis for an article I wrote in a professional journal on the correct manner to deal with product recalls.

Here in Australia, we have a lot of experience with Subarus and they retain their residual value very well as they are recognized as abnormally robust and very good value for money. You should not misinterpret that as cheap as they must be properly maintained. However if you have a value equation that likes Volvos or had a soft spot for Checker cabs, you will understand the benefits.

I also experienced an initial concern over an apparent aberation in the rear screen. On inspection, I discovered that it was a problem with the rear view mirror where the day-night lever acted on the swinging glass. After moving the switch about a dozen times, the aberation disappeared, never to return.

If you are seriously looking at the Subaru, I would suggest you take it for a longer test drive, possibly over a weekend hire. It is not a car which immediately grabs you, but which appeals more and more the longer you drive it. I have recently checked over available replacements for my Outback and realized that my first preference would be another Subaru.

I would also suggest that you test a Subaru in marginal driving conditions, with wet or slippery roads. The worse the conditions, the better the Subaru behaves. I really enjoy driving on rough bush tracks where it is in its element.

There are deficiencies in the car, particularly the quality of interior plastics which tend to scratch easily. However, they are extraordinarily solid as testified to by the fact that I have been rammed fairly hard twice without damage although leaving serious damage to the ramming party. The safety benefits of AWD and superb brakes can also not be overstated.

I hope you enjoy the search for your car.

Cheers

Graham

sunchicar

Need help!. Anybody who has experienced several of this dashboard lights to become "extinct", especially when they are so close together, and even made me think of a fuse failure, but I checked them all and they're o.k., please submit your ideas or comments. Traveling by night it is not so pleasant when you see some extra darkness on front of you, especially the clock!!.

G. Mendez

nygreg

I can relate to your concerns as my wife and I have been Toyota fans (86 corolla, 92 camry, 00 sienna). When it came time to replace our camry, which amazed me with its reliability, I did my research and decided on a Base OB. I can't give any insight on long term reliability since the car only has 3000 miles on it. However, I find I love this car more as time goes by as Graham mentioned (I'm also an engineer....man, Graham you are good!). If you look at Consumers Reports data they state that the most improved car companies over the past 20 years are Honda, Nissan and Subaru. You will also see that problems per 100 cars is right there with Toyota with a smaller spread - a very good sign. Also as Graham mentioned, people here in the Northeast that own Subies, buy more Subies. At a party this past weekend there were 3 OBs next to each other and at least 2 were owned by the homeowner. My initial impression so far - this is a solid car, well built and Subaru really seems to care. I find the ergonomics very good and really appreciate the firm seats (to the point that I like them better than my Sienna's). Downside - Dealer service varies a lot. Hope this helps.

Good luck in your search,
Greg

jimmyp1

I own a 1994 Legacy Turbo Sedan, so our engines aren't quite the same, but our symptoms are. I had a lot of trouble starting my car for a while, and also had a stutter in all gears, but particularly second. It all turned out to be related to the vaccuum hoses running throughout the engine. I found two loose. They also gave me a slightly rough idle. I supposed a damaged hose (or you might call them tubes because they are so small = 1/4" maybe) might cause the same problem and be very hard to find. Just something to look for. Have you been fiddling around in the engine compartment? Maybe you knocked something loose. Have a look and be patient. I didn't find the loose spots until about the third time of looking around.

Jim

larlar

I am a new Subaru Outback Limited owner, and while I find that I love my vehicle, there are times when I need the additional seating another seat could offer. I have found two web sites that "promise" their universal seats will work for my wagon, but would love to hear from someone else who might have experience with this problem. Please feel free to e-mail me at:

4NelsonsHere@compuserve.com

Thanks,
Laura Nelson

nematode

We dont get anywhere near the EPA numbers unless I drive really slow. Here in the midwest traffic moves at 70-75mph and that gets us about 22-23mpg. At about 65mph I have been at 29mpg but that has not happened in a while. Our 80-90% highway commute gets us 22-24mpg. Still better than an actual SUV but not all that impressive.

evilizard

I think that "melting" glass thing you are seeing is an artifact from the manufacturing proccess. When the rear window is formed hot/cool spots are left from the flame jets/Rollers. You especially notice it if you are behind the vehical looking at it and the sun is to your back. It becomes more obvious (from the outside anyway) if you wear polarized sunglasses or get your rear window tinted.

This is not unique to subaru, I have seen it on Honda's and BMW's. The time you notice it the most is if your window is clean (a dirty window tends to hide those spots). It does seem to be more pronouced, possibly because of the size and angle of the window.

I don't feel that it compromises safety at all. While you are driving and looking through the rear mirror you don't notice it. When you look around to back up it's not significant enough to distract you. After a while you don't even notice it. One of the things that I really like about the OB wagon is the amazing visibilty you have. Compared to Sedans and even other wagons I have driven the subaru has excellent all around visibility and very small and not critcally placed blind spots.

As far as long term reliability goes the general consensus seems to be above average. All cars will have their problems, some cars will be lemons. But if you lurk the other boards (VW, Jeep, Volvo, Audi, Infinity) on edmunds you will see a big difference in the complaints that people post. The worst complaints on the subaru board are from people who feel very annoyed by things like squeeking brakes and pinging engines. The worst complaints on the other boards are by people who feel bitterly betrayed and are at the end of their rope. Things like eating brakepads, differentials, transmissions, no end of electrical failures and other expensive things that prevent the car from running.

I know its not scientific as only the people with exceptional experiences bother to talk about them and there might be more VW, Audi or whatever owners out there on these boards than Subie lovers but it does give you an idea of the types of problems you are likely to face in a worst case scenario. It does tell me that most of these subaru owners are happier with their cars from a reliability standpoint than most of their competitors (go read the Volvo V70/XC boards and see how many people are ready to chuck the thing out the window if they could).

I've got 67K on a 96 OB and I've had less than $200 worth or "repairs" done to fix things that were not maintence related or that I broke myself being adventurous. Of course I have spent around $1600 on maintence (tires, fluids, belts, flushes, oil changes, brake pads, rotors etc). I regard that the same was as gas and insurance, its just what it costs to operate a car.

There are no gaurantee's, you pay your money and take your chances. But you can bais your chances one way or another by your choice of manufaturer and model.

If you want relibility and pretty good saftey the Subaru OB is a good choice. Which model you get (base or VDC) just depends on how much you have to spend. If you have the means I would reccomend the VDC, I have one and it is a very nice car. Good performance, excellent traction (even better if you ditch those firestones) and a killer sound system. Bring a CD, FM radio will not show what it can do.

rangerron7

I'm getting pretty much the same mileage as you are (23-24 hwy). I also live in the midwest.
One thing I CAN tell you is that I have experienced a BIG difference between winter mileage (18-18.5mpg) and current mileage. I have been keeping track of every tankfull since December and am amazed at how quickly mileage improved (with no appreciable change in driving habits) once we stopped getting "winter blend" gas here in the Chgo area.
"It's all about the gas!"
Ron

nygreg

is blended with the gas in the midwest, isn't it?? I'm wondering what people's experience is with gas mileage and ethanol blendsl. The reason I ask, is that a bill introduced will mandate a certain % of ethanol (or MTBE) for large cities for better emissions. California wanted to be excused but the Pres. wouldn't go for it. Since MTBE is an environmental disaster when it leaks from the tanks, that leaves ethanol and big bucks for ADM. Anyway, I'm wondering if you get lower mpg with ethanol blends, does that offset the improvement in emissions and we are all being sc__w__d by corp lobbyists.

Greg

ffsteve

Varig,

I just went through the same selection process, resulting in purchase of an LL Bean after 4 Toyotas (82 Supra, 84 Tercel, 90 Cressida & 95 Lexus). Until March of this year I still owned the last three, and still own the last 2. Although I too had reservations about leaving the Toyota brand, I chose the Subaru for the quality, functionality and value. Time will tell if I made the right choice, but the comments on this board all point in the right direction.

Yes, I am an engineer (wife too!), but there is also a "cuteness" to the Subarus and the positive thinking by Subaru owners that also helped.

Steve

drew_

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html



Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

sibbald

Just returned from a trip to visit our daughter in Kamloops and experienced a hot burning oil smell. Our vehicle is a 2000 O.B. H4 auto with 30,000 kilos (18,000 miles) and this is not the smell that many of us experienced when the vehicle was new. That smell is long gone. Didn't notice it on the way up when the roads were dry but very noticeable on our return trip with wet roads. We stopped several times for construction and that is when the strong smell would come in through the ventilation system. It is not a brake smell.

This also only occurs when the vehicle has been operated at highway speeds for more then a couple of hours. I also experienced it a month ago after a 3 hr. trip up Island (also wet) but never around town.

I don't know if it is related or not but during this same period, I have noticed a high pitched whine has developed at speeds of 65 m.p.h or a little higher. The whine is not tire noise as it stops when I power off.

Any ideas you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Patti - being a Canuck eh, I don't expect you to look into anything for me but if you have any ideas, that would be great. I have a very good relationship with my dealer and just looking for any info. that I might be able to pass on to them.

Thanks, Tom

cptplt

in the early 90s they only used ethanol in the summer in MN, mileage on my Legacy never seemed to change through the year

varig

Since I am also looking at a MB E320 w/4Matic. I know it is unfair to put the MB and Subaru in the same category since one is a luxury vehicle and the other utilitarian. What problems did you have with your MB that made you a Subie convert? I am in a conflict between my normal practical, dare I say frugal, self that would choose Subaru vs. a more self-indulgent self that finds the MB an awesome car. I can "almost" rationalize spending the $20K extra for the MB, then I snap back to reality and think "Are you crazy. It's $20K". Oh BTW, I fit the Subaru profile you described. Scary :-) Thanks for any further input you or others may contribute.

armac13

I'm almost incline to think (rare for me these days) that what is burning is road crud that has coated the exhaust system. You know how slippery our roads get at the first rain following a dry spell. All of the oil, rubber, etc. is released. This could then coat the exhaust but not burn until prolonged highway driving gets the system hot enough. Probably wrong, but a thought.

Ross

grahampeters

G'day to Varig

I ran a Merc C class for 4.5 years from new. Over that time, it leaked from virtually every orifice you can think of, and some you can't. The most depressing was when the sunroof mysteriously leaked a lap-full of snow melt onto my groin (and I wasn't even thinking abour Elle McPherson). The boot leaked, the rear screen, the front screen... When I mentioned it to colleagues, they pointe out that these leaks were common to all the Mercedes on our fleet.

The fan motor randomly chose whether it would work at particular settings, the car whistled mysteriously at high speed, the rear door rattled. Each and every problem required multiple visits to the dealer with the car disappearing, usually for days at a time only to return unrepaired and a general attitude of "You shouldn't expect us to fix it for you..."

A car is a Tool of Trade for me and if I am off the road, I am not earning. Over the years, I got to test many exciting Mercs when they were available as loaners, but the necessity to come back to get the car from the dealership meant that I had curtailed business trips, costing me money, time after time.

With no certainty, the immobiliser would slip out of phase with the door locks meaning the car was immobile if you could get into it and vice versa. The remedy was to disconnect the ECU and stand around for a few minutes waiting for the memoory to clear. Of course, in doing so, the cause of the problem was lost from the error memory meaning that the dealer could not trace the problem.

After three years, the wiper motor was a bit jerky and I asked that it be checked. That service took 4 days and cost £1,800 (about USD2,800) as they had to tear the dashboard apart to replace the wiper motor.

Eventually, things came to a head when the car broke down six times in seven days.

Dealer service was universally bad, particularly when recalls (there were several) occurred.

Ultimately, I concluded that the cost of maintaining the car was just not worth it. Never again!

Cheers

Graham

pschneider1

I have a 2000 Outback and notice that my brakes have a pretty loud squeal, but only when I first use them after the car has been standing overnight. I did ask a dealer to check them when I took it in for the O2 sensor recall, but all they did was "clean and adjust" the brakes, which they charged me for. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, can it be fixed with the backing compound you can put on the pads?

cajunasian

I'm looking at a 98 Outback Ltd to buy. 43K miles. I took it to a mechanic and he said the exhaust system and calipers/struts were showing signs of rust. Car was leased before, and registered in Nevada. But the mechanic says it looks more like salt corrosion from the east coast than Nevada. Mechanic says I may have to replace in 2-3 years. Broker says some rust is typical for these vehicles.

I'm comfortable with the price, but do not want to sink $3000 into the vehicle in 2 years. How much corrosion is typical and is this something I should worry about?

Ed

evilizard

That sounds more like corrosion caused from road salt and other chemicals (maybe lots of trips into colorado). With the exception of the corrosion on the exhaust system I wouldn't worry too much about the calipers or struts. Those are very solid pieces of metal. I have slight dusting of rust on some of my exposed components but nothing a good scrub wouldn't remove (course it would come right back). I'd trust your mechanic on this one though, he knows better and he's looked at it.

Any opinions from Colorado drivers?

johnmei

I am considering buying either a 2001 or 2002 Outback (if there are any significant changes). Would appreciate anyones experience IN SNOW with the 2.5 H4 engine. Any recommendations re auto or manual transmission, mpg experience, overall experience. I live in Maine and have a hellacious hill to drive up and down each day, many of which it is slippery. have owned Toyotas and have been happy with them in the past but want AWD or 4WD. Also have looked at the 2002 Explorer and Toyota Tundra truck.

Would also really appreciate overall OB experience, pros and cons. Many thanks. John

rsholland

I saw the '02 Outback sedan at the NY Auto Show in April. That model will now be available with the H-6 engine and VDC. All VDC models will have an on/off switch for the VDC. Also, the model on display was wearing Bridgestone Protenzas, not the Firestone Wilderness tires that current models use. Note these are NOT the same Wilderness tires found on the Explorer.

Beyond that, I don't know of any other changes. Oh, there is a different red color (no more Winestone), and the lower cladding is a (very) slightly different color.

We own an '96 Impreza Outback and a '01 Forester, which have been great. I just replaced the tires on the Impreza, which lasted almost 80,000 miles. Can't comment on the ownership experience on the Legacy Outback, although I've driven quite a few, autos, manuals, H-4s & H-6s. Mostly all thumbs up from what alI I've seen and read.

Bob

kturner1

At work I have to park my pristine new Subie under some utility lines popular with local birds. Today I had some trouble getting their deposits off so I tried using one of those "teflon safe" scrub sponges. Bad idea. It scuffed the finish. You always remember your first.

cptplt

I don't have a 01 or 02 Outback but I do have a 98 GT and if it means anything I have driven twice Des Moines to Chicago in a snowstorm after the plows had been pulled off the interstate because it was so bad. Passed dozens and dozens of SUVs/trucks which couldn't brake on the icey patches and went into the ditch. They may have traction but they can't stop! Had a 92 Legacy when I lived in MN. I never got stuck in the snow, unlike my old Integra or my wifes Camry (even with snowtires). You do need to get snowtires though to really get maximum traction, though I did do one of those stupid trips with brand new OEM tires but they clearly make a big difference. I found out just how much difference the snowtires make soon after I got my 92 Legacy. I put my old Integra snowtires on my in laws 92 Legacy but had the original RE92s on my Legacy and had to make multiple trips back and forth between two places with both cars in the same day when the roads were quite icey after a snowfall the day before. You could clearly tell the difference with essentially the same cars but one with good snowtires. If you don't need to haul a ton of stuff and just need good traction, the OB will be just fine.
I had an Audi 4000 quattro in the early 80s, it truely sucked. Was almost as bad as my Dads Jag in the 70s, always in the shop. Maybe Audi is a lot better now (or maybe it isn't which is why they need to bribe you with free maintenance) but I don't see paying a premium when the Sube is far more reliable by any parameter. My family and friends experience with Volvo reliability has been pretty awful as well so forget the XC. The only thing I might vaguely consider besides another Legacy when I have to replace the present one is a Passat 4motion (as long as its made in Germany!) though even their reliability isn't so hot.

rsholland

I couldn't return your e-mail. For some reason it wouldn't go through. In any event, here's my reply:

<< Since you are obviously into cars in a big way, what is your impression
of the 2002 Explorere XLT?>>

I think Ford did an excellent job with the new '02 Explorer. It's much better than our current '98 model. Much as the ML Mercedes set the standard for engineering (not quality, but engineering) for SUVs, I think the new Explorer will do the same. It's the first traditional "mainstream" SUV with IRS, which allows for terrific packaging. It's very roomy and offers a (small) 3rd row seat, yet is no longer than the old Explorer. It's a very clever design.

<<Re the 2002 Outback, were the foglights and fender larger so the vehicle
had a different look?>>

Yes, to set it apart from the Legacy models.

<<Are their any other exterior color changes and are
you sure that winestone is eliminated?>>

I'm 95% certain that Regatta(?) Red replaces the Winestone color.

<<Oh, any preference for manual vs. auto?>>

The automatic is a good transmission. I do, however, wish it were a 5-speed automatic, rather than a 4-speed unit. The extra gear would allow for closer gear splits, thus better performance. Even though both our Subies are automatics, I prefer a manual. It's more fun IMO.

Bob

jim2741

I live in the Northeast and the AWD is fantastic in the snow and mud. I own a 2000 RS and previously owned a 99 OBS. Since driving Subarus with AWD I can't imagine ever buying a car without AWD. With it I'm able to drive through unplowed roads and driveways after significant snowfalls, and we had some big storms this past winter. I've talked to many people who don't own AWD vehicles who say, "How much better could it be" and then they get one and can't believe the difference. When I got my first Subaru and drove for the first time in the winter, I kicked myself for waiting so long and suffering through so many winters. I would actually go out for rides and find hills and unplowed roads or infrequently used roads to play around with the AWD. I realize this could be a little dangerous, but I'm sure you understand. I've actually talked to many other Subaru owners who say they do the same thing. Also I've had the OBS in NH on some pretty rough dirt/mud roads and the AWD worked great, never even came close to getting stuck. Some of these roads were so rough, that some stopped being roads and I had to back out. Anyway, the AWD is great. Enough said.

mikezak

Saw that there was some discussion on MPG and the common early morning brake 'squeal'.

I have a 2001 OBW with 4000 miles.

On a recent business trip to from central WI to St. Louis I got 32.5 mpg. I am using 87 octane gas, and when traveling use my Cruise control extensively at around 73-75 mph. I even used my A/C for about a quarter of the trip. Believe me, I have been impressed -- especially with gas at $1.80+.

Regarding the brake squeal. I have it consistently when backing up in the morning. So does my friend's Dad (01 OBW w/6000K), and it has been reported by many on this board, and in the General Maintenance & Repair section. Patti of SoA has mentioned that it has been acknowledged by SoA, and a fix will be forthcomming --- (Patti if you read this post have you heard when that will be?)

I have noticed that 'sometimes' my auto tranmission [non-permissible content removed] hard in going from 2nd to 3rd upon the first shift in the morning. Heard others are experinecing the same. However, it happens so infrequently that I am convinced that the Dealer will not be able to reproduce. I can't leave my car overnight either, as the nearest Subie Dealer is 35+ miles away (I need a car to get to work, and 35 miles is a bit of a trek to have someone pick me up).

Otherwise I love the car. Its been great.

jdlangan

Hi John,

We live in upstate NY (Capital Region) and have a 2001 OB, manual transmission, 2.5 H4. This past winter we got a lot of snow, some of the storms that hit you hit here first. The OB was wonderful, there were days that I was out and about that not many people dared. We also own a 96 Explorer, I really feel the OB has more traction and I feel more in control since it's a bit lower, you don't get the tilt feeling on curves, the Explorer is a manual trans also BTW. The OB is pretty close in cargo capacity to the Explorer, but the 02 Explorer is bigger than mine. All in all I'm really pleased with the way the OB handled this winter, and gas milage is much, much better! I still feel safer in the Explorer, probably just because I sit higher and it feels bigger, but when it goes we'll seriously consider another Subaru, either another OB or the larger Forester that's due out in a couple of years. Oh, and the OB is definitely a LOT more fun to drive!

nematode

You are getting almost 10mpg better than I do at 75mph. At 75mph with cruise and AC on we get 23mpg. The best I have ever seen is 29.3mpg. To get that I had to keep it at 65mph with no AC. The wost highway mpg I have seen is 85mph, AC, no cruise....18mpg.

We have a 2k OB Ltd. with 30k miles.

However, I have to say that after driving several other OBs (2ks and 01s) ours is the most smooth shifting one of them all. Most times you cant tell its shifting.....Its like my friends ES300.

francophile

They're wonderful! The Subaru AWD system is great in any slippery condition, even rain or dust or leaves or gravel. It's a benefit and a safety margin under more conditions than just snow. In snow however they really shine.

Generally speaking I've always preferred manual transmissions to automatics in the snow, I think they give the driver more control.

Of course, nothing stops in the snow, not even a Subaru. Dedicated winter tires on all 4 wheels really help, so I'm told; I'll be finding out for myself next winter, when I plan to buy a second set of wheels and winter tires. Last winter I went everywhere I wanted with the all-season tires on my GT (which pretty much suck in the snow), so I can imagine that a Subaru with winter tires is all but unstoppable.

Cheers,
-wdb

mtnsun

I have been and am still in the market for a new 2001 OB Wagon 5sp. It is difficult to find the options you want. One dealer said no problem, he can install CD, security system, air filter. Any problems, differences with the dealer vs manufacturer or what they call port installed options that I need to be aware of. Tx.

breckco

We had a 97 Legacy Wagon with a 5 spd in Chicago. I loved driving that car in the snow. After we'd get dumped on I go out and have the streets to myself. Amazing traction and predictable handling. I also admit to enjoying the thrill of some rally style driving such as putting the car into a "drift" (not a snow drift ) We now have a 2000 OB with a 5 spd but living in San Diego we have to drive and hour into the mountains to drive on snow. I kinda miss that. I've also driven Outback rental cars (automatics) in Colorado and they were great. Subaru's are great in the snow but equally important, they handle well and don't feel "tippy".

Live Happy,

Chris

rsholland

Again, no luck returning your e-mail. So here's my response:

<<Would you be so kind as to try to specifically describe the new "regatta
red" v. the winestone? Is it darker or lighter, brighter, red/red, candy
apple red, red with some orange in it, or maroon?

This request comes from my wife.

I wish I could find a photo of the 2002 Outback>>

I haven't seen the color yet. I believe someone on this forum has seen a swatch of it, however.

Bob

apl

I find myself needing to replace a tire immediately, and with 33K miles on the OEM Firestones, I'll probably put on a new pair. I found the stock Wilderness tires to be acceptable, but would like better wet and snow handling. Located in NE Ohio, so mostly pavement with some gravel and dirt roads.

Any suggestions?

rphillips2

Has anyone heard any rumors that Subaru might put the H6 in the regular Outback. I really would like to get a basic Outback, but after driving one I find the acceleration to be lacking. The VDC and LL Bean editions are too expensive. Please Subaru, give us a base H6!!!

viktoria_r

Always thought of it as a neat car, but never driven one. Discovered that ist is more pleasant to drive than I expected. Bought mine at Schaumburg Subaru(Chicago suburbs). No pressure for add-ons, salesman brought out invoice. Easy to deal with. Got mine for Edmunds TMV.

20llbean

Just picked up an LLBean outback. Beautiful looking car with good accessories. Question I have is the price. I paid $27K which includes a $500.00 trade in on a 10 year old ford with 120000 miles on it. Minus the trade in, it's about 150 dollars less then invoice (invoice= 26685 + destination (495) + options (roughly 600) = $27780. It seems like a decent deal but you never know. any comments?