Subaru Legacy/Outback

hypov

when cranking does sound odd.
My '98 OB does shut-off lights and accessories momentarily when starting up the engine.

-Dave

scirocco22

Dave-- Well, I just assumed that all Subarus do what my '02 Forester does. Maybe something's defective on mine ...or maybe they have a "cut-out" on OBs but not on Foresters. Thanx for your response.

Other OB owners: do your headlights "cut-out" during starting or not? If I find that everybody's OBs do, then maybe I'll ask over on the Forester forum to see if this is just something that's peculiar to Foresters or maybe just my Forester.

Thanx

--'rocco

hypov

then,... there something odd about my OB :-)

-Dave

paisan

But all my accessories and headlights etc. do blink as I start the engine. Batteries are cheap, I'm not concerned if they do stay on.

-mike

c_hunter

The dimming mirror uses differential light sensors in the front and back to trigger the liquid crystal tint. You can mess around with it by covering the sensor holes with your finger in various light conditions. I imagine the darkness level could be calibrated by taping over one of the sensors a little.

I never even knew it had a sensor up front until I drove into the sunset one evening, which caused the mirror to change tint.

Craig

senturi

My wife drove her '02 Outback with the parking brake engaged for almost 5 miles before she realized the problem. Of course after she stopped the car, the smell from the brake pads was very apparent. I'm not sure what damage was done to the car, but this was the first and only time that she drove with the parking brake engaged. She was wearing dark sun glasses and could not see the BRAKE warning light on the dash. Perhaps Subaru can add an additional warning "chime" to indicate that you are driving while the parking brake is engaged. Of course we notified the dealer and spoke with the service manager. He said this happens quite frequently. I did review the Owner's Manual. It warns of excessive wear of the brake pads while driving with the parking brake engaged. I just hope nothing else was seriously damaged.

paisan

Well luckily for you and other subie owners, they wore the drum-in-disk pads in the rear. I'm pretty sure that is how the newer subies actuate the rear parking brake. It has it's own set of pads that are pushed against the disc or it's own drum or something. Basically you probably just shortened their life a bit. Your regular brakes work independent of the parking brake system, so no major harm should have been done.

-mike

wrobelc

Thanks to all for the helpful comments. It was a lot more helpful then the Subaru dealership where I purchased the car. I checked the part number for the Subaru Trailer Hitch (L1010LS000). The hitch is only listed for the Outback and neither parts nor service knew if this would work on a Legacy L wagon. Additionally, service didn't know if the Legacy L had a wiring harness. I next called a shop that specializes in hitch installation and they indicated that they would hard wire if there was no wire harness. They also asked if I wanted a 1 1/4" or 2" hitch. What are the recommendations for size?

mortpeaberry

If the L is the same as the GT - there is no wiring harness in the back for the trailer wires. The biggest problem for me was the 10 amp wire req. for the converter. With out a converter - the ABS system is extended to the trailer lights and can result in a ABS malfunction (I don't know how, but this was from the parts adviser @ subaru). I had to disassemble all the trim to get the wire to the dash board - then figure out if there was an easy way to get through the fire wall (there is not). I ended up patching into the fuse block for the trailer wires (I could not find a wiring terminal that would fit in to the wiring harness plug). OB people are lucky, L people - I don't know. If you were ordering your car from the factory than I would ask for this option then.
2" has many better options for load carriers, also you can get a cush-receiver, one that has dampening mechanism inside for a smoother towing experience. (sounds like an ad)
As for the bumper fasia, I did not have to cut any for the GT wrap-under cover with a draw-tite (u-haul) hitch.
good luck
steve-v

ochssk

It looks like we'll be getting a new Bean this weekend. Before I take delivery, what would people recommend I have done or checked. One thing I can think of is having the dealer double check the torque on the lug nuts which seem to be a problem.

nygreg

Congratulations on your new bean. Subies' initial quality does need some improvement. Lug nuts are definitely worth checking (~75 ft-lbs). Tire air pressures seem to be an issue too. They should lower the shipping pressure for you. I like 33 PSI all around. Just give the car a good once over. My rear outlet did not work (was not connected) along with a cracked rear lense and warped rotor. Ask if the brakes have the anti-squeal shims installed. Make sure you get the "screwdriver" to adjust the crossbars with. Bring a CD and tape with you to check those items and for your listening pleasure going home....or...if you prefer, just listen to the beautiful sound the engine makes. Remember, keep it below 4K RPM for the first 1K miles and don't drive hard. Lots of luck and keep us informed.

Greg

sibbald

I had a similar experience last year. We were sharing the driving on a long trip. My friend forgot to release the parking brake. After we had been driving for about 15 minutes at 100 kph, I could feel a vibration in the rear seat of the car where I was sitting and then noticed the parking brake handle sticking up.

I took it into the dealer, quite concerned, but no damage was done. They did need to adjust the parking brake (no charge) and you should have this checked.

Unless you are into handbrake turns ;-)
there is little or no wear to worry about with a parking brake.

Tom

wrobelc

Steve,

Thanks for the info. After reading your experience, I'll think give up on installing a trailer hitch. Next time, I'll get the Outback.

chuck

ffsteve

Chuck (wrobelc),

Don't give up on the trailer towing just yet.

Steve V (mortpeaberry), I agree with you in not understanding the Subaru Parts Guy's comment on the converter interacting with the ABS system. I just can't see how the brake and taillights will feed data BACK to the ABS. In fact, they should be completely independent. Taillights illuminate when the lights are turned on, brake lights illuminate when the brake pedal is depressed. Whether or not the ABS works with the actuation of the brakes does is not affected by the lights.

All the converter is doing for you is converting the "European" independent turn and brake taillights (bright red brake and amber turn) into the old style "American" combined (bright red shared by brake and turn signals) that are probably on your trailer.

I admit I'm not the last word on this subject, but I have a VERY strong suspicion that the Subaru is just like any other car in this regard. Double-check with a hitch installation place, and I'm sure that there are other experienced trailer towers reading this forum.

Good luck,

Steve in So Cal

mdisaacs

A coworker of mine decided to buy a Legacy Wagon but wanted a hitch and heated seats. Yark Subaru in Toledo Ohio took care of him. They arranged to have a 1.25 inch receiver installed thru a nearby hitch company and just used the wiring harness the Outback uses. The factory Outback hitch setup would have affected the rear bumper fascia so the aftermarket setup is below the bumper and uses a curved ball mount which clears the fascia.
As for the heated seats, the heating elements (blanket) just installs in the factory seats. The wiring is in the car already. Laf.
-Mike

paisan

Trailer hitch wiring is different these days than the old days where you could just splice it in. Now generally you need hot leads with power coming from the source to the rear of the car. While tapping into the lights should work, you may dim the whole parking light/brake-light circuit.

-mike

mortpeaberry

Chuck (wrobelc),
Well it was not a bad experience, I did get to know my car, it just took 2 months to find the time to wire the lights. It took an hour to do the hitch and in between I went sailing half a dozen times (the harbor is 2 miles away - I made sure that I was home By dark) The subaru is a GREAT lighter duty tow vehicle. I just thought it was real weird that vehicles that share the same platform, with minor differences would not use the same harness.
If you don't feel like doing it yourself, just make sure the hitch place does a clean job (often this makes me more nervous - maybe a high end car stereo installer can do the wiring ("Yeah, I'm going to put a jillion watt amp in the tire well..."))
Life is an adventure (On your tombstone will be two dates, and all your friends will read 'em, All that matters is the little dash between 'em - some C/W song)
Steve-V

rob999

Does anyone know what publisher produces the Subaru factory shop manuals? I don't want a Chilton or Haynes, but would prefer the real deal. Also would prefer a CD-ROM version. My Subaru parts dude wasn't able to ID the publisher.

ateixeira

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Legacy is not prewired for the hitch, while the Outback is. I'm not certain, but I would look for the harness plug-in in the hatch area - you may not find it. On my Forester, it was in the spare tire well.

So they'll have to splice, I believe. But that's included in the price of the install, usually. For the price of the OE kit, you can get a Draw-Tite or a Hidden Hitch installed.

It's only rated to tow Class I, so a 1.25" receiver is usually what comes with those. A 2" receiver is more universal, but keep in mind you still have a 200 lbs tongue limit and Class I ratings, so don't go overboard. There are adapters that convert from one to the other and vice-versa.

It's actually a torx-driver for the roof rack. :-)

-juice

david55838

Hi all,

Just thought I'd run a poll of my fellow OBers. How many of you use your fog lights as a matter of course; you put them on automatically at night with your headlights regardless of the weather?

I don't, but wonder how many of you do?

David

paisan

I generally have the fogs go on with my headlights on both my cars.

-mike

rsholland

in foul weather only. At least I try to.

Bob

bkaiser1

Maybe it's just me, but I have never been able to tell much difference in visibility in any of my cars equipped with foglights. My OB foglights seem to illuminate 2 feet in front of the bumper and that's it...I only use them in really crummy weather when it's raining or snowing and the roads are wet (mostly for the added visibility to others, not because I can really see the road any better).

The few times I have driven through dense fog at night, the "foglights" didn't do a damn bit of good because the regular headlights reflected back so much. I'd rather see a good set of driving lights installed with a narrow beam that goes beyond the normal low beams or at least have the existing fogs wired to come on with the parking lights rather than the headlights. Oh well...it's just a fashion accessory anyway...

herbruss

Don't put mine on with headlights. Bad habit for me to get as I have another car that tends to overheat the fog light wiring and trip the ckt breaker (Ford).

You might look at http://www.alldatadiy.com/ for an alternative to regular shop manuals.

rsholland

I find them pretty much useless. They do a fine job lighting up the area just in front of the front bumper, but don't do anything about down the road.

To be honest, I'd rather use my high beams in the fog. They're not great either, but I prefer them to fog lights.

Bob

rob999

They help me see varmints better just before I run over them :^o

[Just kidding :^)]

ateixeira

I used to use my fogs most of the time, but recently I've only been using them when I felt they are needed (foul weather, dark/unknown roads).

-juice

ccampbell4

I always have them on, and leave all the lights on all the time. I like the way they look and hope it makes me more visible.

ffsteve

Almost never turn them on - in any car! Agree with prior observations that having the headlights on at the same time seems to negate any advantage offered by the foglights in fog, causing reflections back from the fog anyway.

If there was a simple way to rewire them to allow them on without headlights I would do so, but believe in California its probably illegal to have fogs on without headlights! What's a body to do?

Converters - thanks for the update. The idea of a powered converter did cross my mind, but I've never come across one.

Steve

oregonboy

Patrick Bedard, an editor on the Car & Driver Magazine staff, once wrote an article in which he expressed his disdain for fog lights as a fashion accessory.

His point was that they illuminate the area immediately in front of the vehicle, reducing the ability and inclination to see WAY down the road... where the driver should be looking. Unless traveling very, VERY slowly, in heavy fog, fog lights are worse than useless.

Having said that, I must confess that I used to install auxiliary lights on my cars because I thought they "looked cool". I got over it.

-James

subearu

mine are only on in inclement weather (rain, snow, etc.)

I agree - they don't seem to make a difference in what you see past the bumper.

-Brian

rsholland

with C&D's Bedard 100%, as I mentioned a few post back.

Bob

rangerron7

I also think they are pretty useless and would much rather see them replaced with narrow beam driving lights that are aimed correctly.
Ron

moonsage

The Bean is my first driving experience w/ fog lights, & since I've only had it 1.5 months I don't have a lot of experience, but the few times I used them I found them very useful re: visibility. Used them in medium fog & winding mountain roads, and heavy rain, same type roads. I really appreciated them & felt much safer w/ them.

c_hunter

I leave them on, so they are on whenever the headlights are on. Though they do help illuminate the road to the immediate front and sides, I like them mostly for the increased visibility they add to the car.

I wouldn't call the Outback's aux lighting fog lights either -- to me, they are driving lights. In my book, fogs would be independent of the headlights and have an amber/orange lens.

Craig

oregonboy

On a tight, winding road they could be useful because of their spread-beam. They would help you "see around the corner", since in a tight turn, your headlights don't point in the direction that your vehicle is actually headed.

Citroen made a maseratti-powered model, the SM, back in the seventies, that had "steerable" lights that moved in concert with the front wheels. I believe that U.S. gov't regulations now prohibit such innovations.

-James

wrobelc

Most of the posts also indicated the differences between the outback and legacy L and the below email from Subaru verfies past posts on this topic.
------------------------------------------------
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. No, the trailer hitch available for the Outback is not applicable to your '00 Legacy L Wagon
nor is there a wiring harness within your vehicle. You would need to purchase
the trailer hitch and wiring harness from a professional Hitch Supplier or
local Auto Supplier. Best wishes!!

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

tidester

I'd rather use my high beams in the fog.

I find that using high beams in a fog produces a lot of backscatter and washes everything out so I can see nothing but bright fog.

tidester
Host
SUVs

hypov

I don't turn 'em on. Don't do me any improvements.
Got and used auxilaries instead.

-Dave

edited: I'll admit, if I didn't aim the auxilary properly, it'll glare hell to broad daylight.

phill3

I often find other cars with their fog lights on annoying when I see them in my rearview mirror. Therefore I rarely use mine except in really bad weather.

rsholland

<< I find that using high beams in a fog produces a lot of backscatter and washes everything out so I can see nothing but bright fog. >>

True, but I can still generally see further down the road than with fog lights. If the idea behind fog lights is to keep your speed down in the fog&#151;granted, a good idea&#151;then fog lights are way to go. I find myself over-driving (going too fast) the fog lights. If you keep your speeds under 25 mph, they're fine.

Bob

johnmei

Have a 2002 model. Live in Maine. Engine quiet even when first starting on a very cold morning. Had first oil change at Subaru at 1000miles. Took a trip down to Savannah, GA where I presently am located. Have 1800 miles since the initial oil change. Now, when running engine first thing in the morning, it sounds pretty bad almost like a diesel knock. Lasts 5-10 minutes even after engine temperature indicates engine warm. Eventually the knock disappears. Am wondering if the problem is low oil level??!!Checked the engine oil level one morning before starting the vehicle. Dip stick showed it was a quart low; however after I cleaned the dip stick and immediately inserted and withdrew it again, it showed that the oil level was "full". I recall reading somewhere on the net that Subaru dipsticks were too long or they weren't giving an accurate oil level reading. Believe it or not when I tried to find the local Subaru dealer in the Yellow Pages here, the notation read, "Contact Subaru in Jacksonville, Florida"!

Could use some sage advice and/or solution.

Thanks-John

paisan

Dave's aux lights are almost as bright as my Hella 4000s. They make the sun look dim.

-mike

kmclean

Generally speaking, I never use them. Same with my Max - they look cool, but don't do much, so I leave them off. I've tried them on several foggy days/nights in the PNW, and found they didn't help much (maybe they helped someone see me - a la the DRLs). About the only situation where I found them useful was on a very snowy night in Bend on a remote 2-lane road, where they added a bit to close-in illumination without giving me much snow-caused "back-flash."

Best lights I had were some custom long-range pencil beams that I had on my Audi in Norway. They would only work with the high beams (had a toggle switch on the dash), and were a real asset in a country that turned pitch black a few miles outside of Oslo - with some pretty crummy roads and steep drop-offs to boot. Almost everyone had extra lights - white, amber, pencil-beam - whatever (some had them all!).

Ken in (rainy) Seattle

armac13

Fog is nature's way of telling you to SLOW DOWN.
:-)

Ross

tshin99

I'm looking to buy a new car and I just test drove the 2002 Outback LL Bean edition and it was really nice. The dealer was offering $200 above the invoice price. This seems like a good deal. is it?

Thanks,
tom

hypov

Any news with the group buy for nudge bar?
If the Legacy 6 isn't showing up for 2003, I like to get one for the '98 OB, and the Hella Xenon Comet to go with it :-D

-Dave

c_hunter

$200 over invoice is good for a Bean. That is what I paid in December. I love the car.

Craig

aps5

I just paid 300 over invoice in NJ, but "invoice" was $110 over the one listed on Edmunds. 200 over is a good price. And, make sure they give you the torx driver for the roof rack - they forgot mine, and many other people's as far as I can tell.

The Bean is a fantastic, quiet car with what I think is one of the nicest looking interiors on the market. Strangely, our other choice was a Jaguar x-type. I believe the interiors are comparable.

paisan

I can actually get them singly now, no need for a group buy per-say. E-mail me off-line and I'll get you the price and you can post it up here.
ecb@iace.com is the address

-mike