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Real-World Trade-In Values

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Comments

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Hmm...

    I mailed you last night and it bounced.. Lemme check my mail and I'll see....

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Glad I could help! :)

    Just make sure you meet in a public, well-lighted place. And be careful!

    But, it's like anything else I suppose.. and no, you dont need AWD in Atlanta!

    Bill
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    For the car people on here.....

    In your area's what appraisal guide book do you primarily use??? Here in the northeast we use "Galves" and NADA as a comparison...
    also, how often do you go online for an appraisal?

    Rich
  • loan in the SW, of course, then it's over/under.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Rich,

    We use a combination. As a rule we use Black Book, but we also refer to auction results a lot to get an idea.

    We get the weekly books from the local sales, and there's like 5 sales around Orlando so its a good idea of market.

    Bill
  • joelincolnjoelincoln Posts: 100
    Hi,
    I'm trading in my '92 Mark VII LSC and have found large discrepancies between the prices listed on the net (Edmunds, Kelly, etc) and what dealers are willing to give me. They all seem to be using the Galves book to make their assessment. I am in NJ. I am being offered around $3500 but Kelly says $4300 as a minimum.

    Why the big difference and why does everyone seem to use Galves?

    Joe
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    I don't have enough info to go on really to give you an idea of what your trade might be worth.

    Galves is very very accurate, but rarely says what you want to hear. It's put out by a people tha are also wholesalers (I bought cars from them when I was working at a dealer in NJ, which is where I am from).

    For any '92 to bring "Book" it has to be clean, damage free, and evrything has to work. THose little dents andsuch do hurt the car's value substantially.

    Get me the specs on your car and I'lltry and give you an ida of what it may be worth.

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    THe average auction value of that car is about $2,700 with about 100K or so miles...

    So $3,500 might be pretty strong actually..

    Bill
  • joelincolnjoelincoln Posts: 100
    Thanks for the info,
    My '92 Mark VII LSC has 99k miles, moonroof, JBL stereo, and alarm system. No accidents or major repairs. I am original owner and have all repair records. I have maintained it well and it looks great and is mechanically solid. It does have some exterior blemishes but nothing that you wouldn't find on any 8 year old car. The interior is fine except for some cracking on the driver's seat leather and wear on the leather-wrapped steering wheel. Tires need replacement.

    What do you think?
    Joe
  • Hi guys, I'm new in this topic but I'm looking to get out of my 2000 Z3 and am suffering from heart failure at the "trade-in" rates I'm being offered. I paid almost $35K in May 1999 and now I'm hearing that I'm only going to get $26.5K if I trade. Am I crazy to be looking for $30 to 31-ish? The car is in great shape, good options, has 12K miles, and S. Fla (where I live) is a decent market for this sort of sportscar. Brentwood, you're "in the area". What do you think?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    I will of course love to hear the insider's answer to your question, but my first reaction is that mid-high $20s is probably about right for this car. This is pretty typical for a BMW or MB during the first couple of years after new - I used to use a rule of thumb of 20-30% on any one-year-old car like this, unless there was something really extraordinary about it, and I'm afraid that certainly doesn't apply to a Z3. I'm talking about wholesale, of course - the dealer will turn around and try to sell it for at least $32k...but will be lucky to get $30k, which is why nobody wants to buy it from you to resell at the number you're looking for. Sorry, but I have a lot of experience trading low mileage Germans after 1-3 years, and unless you're dealing with something really hot, this is the nature of the biz...
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Yup...

    $3,500 is "all the money" for that car. Based on my data, it's not even really worth that I'm afraid, so.. take the $$ and run!

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    These are always very very tough cars to appraise.

    Here's a general rule of thumb though, On a car that sells near MSRP, Expect to be something like $2-3K below invoice.

    On a car that's cheap-sold, Expect to be substantially below that.

    Look at it this way, say that a Z3 has an MSRP of $35K, an Invoice of $31K and they go for about $34K.

    Where would the used 2000 Need to be priced for it to seem worthwhile to you? It's have to be right around $30-31K, right? And it's very tough to sell cars like that, as they dont attract used-car buyers, and new-car buyers generally do not consider them.

    That being said, my data generally supports this to some degree. These are cars that may bring big money at an auction, but the actual wholesale-level bids on them may be lower... much lower. EVen so, I'm seeing a good $7K+ Off of MSRP at the sales..

    Could I have a bit more info on the car?

    Bill
  • I was offered $650 for my trade-in from a supposed "no-haggle, fair price" dealer. It's a 92 Sunbird SE sedan, 93000 miles, 4 cyl, ABS, auto, A/C, rear defrost. Problems are some rust on the panels below the doors (seems to be a common problem for this car) and a small amount underneath the trunk lid, small amount of paint chipping on the front side panels near the hood and on the front of the hood, and some minor interior blemishes. Mechanically the car is in good shape, new brakes last summer, new exhaust this past spring, new tires today (had to be inspected). Edmunds gives me a quote of over $3400 for trade... I realize this is for a car in perfect shape and I am new to the car buying game, but I can't believe I'd lose $2800 in value from a "fair price" dealer because of the described problems. Any input would be greatly appreciated...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    Those aren't exactly at the top of the Hit Parade as far as being desirable merchandise.

    What is "some" rust to one person may be a "rust bucket" to another.

    The new brakes,etc are nice but add no real value...sorry.

    It's a car that will probably be wholesaled by the dealer.

    Why not run an ad and try to sell it yourself?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    Im afraid that $650 is that car's value. At best. I have no idea where Edmunds got $3,400 as a trade-in value for that car! Actually, the convertibles aren't even selling for that much. They have an average wholesale selling price of about $2K or so.

    $3,400 would be like low retail on a Clean Convertible!

    Even in markets where rust isnt an issue, Im not seeing any of them sell for even close to that. Truthfully, rust absolutely slaughters the value of a car. It's worse than a horrible paint job. And, the panelsa below the doors are rocker panels, which are structural on a unibody car like that.

    Average wholesale on a clean one is about $1K

    I hate to say it but $650 seems very fair to me. I'd try selling it yourself.

    Times like this make me think that the people at Edmunds who value cars are on something.

    I don;t want to sound facetious, but their quote is grossly out of line I'm afraid :(

    Bill
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Posts: 647
    It seems this car is in the price range that a good number of people can come with cash in hand and buy. My wife and I sold a '91 Sunbird 2 Door in '98 for $4500 and it had about 72K on the clock, no rust and no ABS, but everything else was about the same.

    I think we had it at the MIL's insurance agency on a main street in our town about three weeks before it sold.

    Two head gaskets and a tranny repair in 12 months was enough for us.

    Cheers,

    TB
  • Thanks for the info everyone - I guess even Edmunds can't be believed sometimes ;) I'm thinking about keeping the car through the winter anyways... either that or I will try to sell it myself. Can't wait until I graduate and start making some real money...

    p.s. hey, isellhondas, got any civic si's sitting around? I've been looking for a 95 or so... ;)
  • Guys, thanks for the feedback even though you seem to be confirming my worst fears! Unfortunatly, there really isn't anything "exceptional" about the car (except maybe the color - Topaz Blue with matching interior is pretty different, but still- anyone can walk in and order that). I've now got about 12.5K miles on it, and although I maintain it very well although I do have one scratch on it (I suspected some teenagers from a parking lot, but had no proof. grrr.). Bill, if you give me your email address, I'll send you a pix and some more info and we can take the talk "off-line".
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    I'll be happy to help!

    Send it to weismann@ix.netcom.com

    Bill
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    Firstly, let's define the term "market price": that is the price that a willing buyer and a willing seller agree is the value of the goods at any given time and for any given transaction. Three dealers have helped define the market price for your car, but you are not a willing seller. That's OK, but remember that neither Edmunds nor Kelley intend to offer to buy your car. It's pretty clear what the wholesale market price is for this car, but you don't like the number - that's not an unreasonable reaction, but it also means you're likely to be frustrated. This illustrates how I trade cars: I always get multiple bids from dealers who sell the car new - the guides are interesting reading, but are pulp fiction a good deal of the time.

    Second, I traded my 1996 RL with about 15k miles on it exactly three years ago [9/97] on a new MB E320. Market wholesale at that time: about $28000. I got it at about $36k new in Feb 96, so that seemed eminently reasonable to me. So does the number you're being quoted, for the following reason...

    Thirdly, these cars retail routinely for the very low $20k range - $21 - $22.5k, depending on dealer, miles, etc. Considering cost to certify for their used car program, recon, etc, the price you are going to get at wholesale sounds exactly like the prices you've been quoted. Selling it yourself at retail almost always nets a higher price, at the expense of the trouble of advertising, screening buyers, etc. Around NorCal, the retail prices at the beginning of this paragraph are realistic. Hope you can get a deal going that meets your needs...
  • jccsscjccssc Posts: 44
    Thanks for the info, you are right - I got frustrated since I expected to be paid higher on my RL trade-in than what I have been quoted. 3 dealers' appraisals seem like enough to determine the "market" value of the car. I guess what is happening is RL is not a "hot" seller even new - (I saw ads from dealers posting a really low lease rate for 2000 RL's). Even the name ACURA cannot help it much. I just have to accept the fact that it is how much my car is worth. : (
  • jaclazjaclaz Posts: 37
    Not the best New car buy!!
    A '00 RL MSRP's for $42,500, your lease residual gives it a value of $19,000. So in four years the value has declined 55%, retaining 45% of it's MSRP value. A '00 BMW 328 4dr ($39,500 MSRP) after 4yrs. would have a $20,200 Residual and a '00 MB 320 E ($47,750 MSRP) would have a $26,000 Residual after 4 years. The 328 retaining 51% and the 320E retaining 54% after 4 years... Soooo..., you can see the Europeans do get more value. Let's see what happens to a Lexus GS400 ($46,800 MSRP), it retains 52% with $24,100 Value after 4. Audi's A6 Quattro 2.7T Wunder car!!! MSRP of $39,100 retains only 48% with a value of $18,500 after 4...Volvo's S80 flagship ($36,000 MSRP) retains 50% returning $18,000 after 4.....

    Hope you enjoyed the comparisons!
    Happy motoring! Jack
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...new ones are sold pretty much at invoice, or around $37k for a non-nav. So a 4-year old car is indeed holding about 45-50% of original price [not MSRP, which doesn't mean much]. I liked my RL a lot, and kind of wish I had it back - it's a car that gets no respect from anybody except people who own one. For that reason, a used one is indeed a superior buy to a new one.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    I'm afraid that those are not very strong in the market. While they are very nice cars, Compare the Price of an RL to:

    A Jaguar S-Type
    A Lexus GS
    A BMW 5 Series
    Mercedes E-Class
    Audi A6

    And that was answered above as it was mentioned that they sell at Invoice. Generally, Imported Luxury cars do not sell at Invoice.

    Now, I ran that Acura against Auction data, And the average seems to be low-mid $17Ks with an average of about 50K miles.

    Also, the "distress-sale" of the New RLs sure isnt helping their residual values at all. When new cars are sold cheap, it hurts their resale value..

    As far as the accuracy of the websites, I find Edmunds to frequently be very far off-base. If you scroll up, I've posted some examples... I wish they would be more accurate, it'd make everyone's job a lot easier. Just today I had a customer with a printout from Edmunds. As often happens, their value was about 10-12% High of market. This was on a Cadillac, and the customer was not happy when he was told what his car wqas really worth. So I brought the auction recap sheet out and asked him what seemed like a more reasonable source! Inititally he didn't trust me, as dealers do not have a stellar reputation, but the point of the matter is, these guides, by their very nature, cannot be very accurate. There areaccurate guides. However, they are not free.

    Information costs money I suppose and you get what you pay for..

    In your case, you have a RWD Luxury car going into winter that's about to turn 5, and a soon to be obsolete model... this car would have been worth a bit more in, say, March.

    Hope this helps!

    Bill
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    Don't expect to have equity at lease end. The residuals are calculated pretty close.

    I think Acura shot themselves in the foot with the new RL. First of all, they shouldn't have changed the name! What is a RL anyway...a Renamed Legend?

    Nice cars, though.

    Also, back in '96 Acura blew out a lot of leased RL's these are showing up at the auctions now en masse. The more of them, the lower the price.

    Color is also important on these. If it's a "bad" color, they will go begging at auction.
  • jccsscjccssc Posts: 44
    i agreed with Bill, the dealers and the market actually "control" the trade-in price of a car. Take my RL as an example, even though Kelly/Edmunds are both showing high values but if several dealers are quoting a lower value because of the market - nothing you can do but accept the fact!! Either decide to go on with life and accept the offer (to trade-in a new car you now want) or keep the car, or if you have enough "doh", cough up the cash to bail the pink copy out and sell the car retail.

    I also agree that RL is a nice car. As a matter of fact, it has no problems whatsoever. However, it is just getting bored to drive the Honda/Acura cars for over 15 years (my previous cars are Accord and Legend), and it is just my decision to go for a more "exciting" car.

    john
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I have been consistanly buying off lease 97 RL's for the last few months (premium pkg. w/good colors, white,green,silver works for us)..and having great luck re-selling them. As mentioned in a earlier post...the car isnt worth anywhere near 41K new compared to similar priced competition but for a slightly used one for $23000 is a great value in my opinion...

    Also to anyone trading...don't forget that most states give you a sales tax break on the trade in value. On a pricy car this can amount to quite a bit of money. I have seen customers sell cars themselves because they werent getting enough but when they figured in the sales tax savings they would have received the same amout when trading in to a dealer.

    example:
    trade value $20,000
    sales tax 6%
    = $1200 in sales tax savings thus giving the customer a net trade amount of $21,200.


    Rich
  • As it's referred to is only 3%. So, it's important to consider what your actual rate will be. It still may be worthwhile to trade. Obviously, the higher the trade price the greater the advantage. With a 6% tax rate i'd be hard pressed to justify going thru the hassle of selling an expensive 20k and up car.
  • jmon4jmon4 Posts: 1
    Does $3,700 sound like a fair trade-in
    for a 95 ply grand voy le with 63,000 miles
    and all the equipment (4 captain chairs,
    dual air, power seat...etc.)? Interior &
    exterior is in good condition. I'm buying a
    honda odyssey through a buying service not
    directly from a dealer. Does this make
    a difference? The trade-in value in
    edmund's was over $9000. That's a big gap.
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