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Lincoln Town Car

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  • OK, been looking to replace my 2000 Pontiac GP, and have started looking at the Mk 8's as they seem like quite a deal. Out here in California, if it isn't a Lexus, BMW, or SUV, no one appears to want it.
      I remember renting a Buick LeSabre about 4 years ago, and was blown away with what a luxury car can do. From what I've heard, the Mk 8's and TC's are just that much better.

    So, while looking at the Mk 8's, I am seeing some really nice TC's, like the 2000's.

    Questions:

    1. Why would one purchase a TC over a Mk 8? Reliabilty? Luxury? Looks like the TC's are a little more thirsty than the Mark VIII's, which is worth noting for me.

    2. For a 99-00 TC Executive, is there a good ballpark figure, or is Edmunds TMV still the way to go?

    Thanks for your help.
  • The Town Car is roomier, more simple from a mechanical perspective, and probably has better long-term reliability as a result.

    The Mk VIII, OTOH is a bit lighter, faster, and much more sporty. It depends on what matters more to you. Drive both. Buy what you like.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The T/C will give you less trouble - less technology to go wrong. Also, will probably give you a tad more mileage, though either will do pretty well on that. The Mark needs Premium, the Town Car doesn't.

    It really is about what you want to wear. They are two totally different cars, with few parts shared. The Mark 8 is on a different platform, with Independent Rear Suspension, the InTech engine is fast and the transmission will do a downshift from OD to 1 in one motion. It handles great, especially for as big as it is, and will be a friggin blast to drive. Yet, will ride very well. The Town Car is isolation on wheels, as comfy as they come, rock solid as a machine can be, and will give you 500,000 miles of service is well cared for.

    I like Buicks too. But either of these will outperform any Buick there is with 3 cyliders tied behind its back.
  • Thanks for the feedback. I only mentioned the Buick as its the only relative 'luxury' car of an American persuasion I've ridden in, in years. Everything else has been BMW, and Japanese. And even 5 years ago the Buick was quite impressive, even if not really on par with the Mk *'s or TC's.

    Now if I can find a TC to test drive that isn't a limo trade-in....
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    Gad! No comparison! Somehow, these two end up in the same sentence often. I don't know why. I can say that EVERY time I've seen these two head to head, the guy buys the TC. Heck, my dad had an '03 Lesabre and an '03 Grand Marq is his driveway side by side for about three weeks. He and all of his cronies were impressed with the luxury image "stuff" on the Buick (typical for Buick) versus the real-deal luxury of the Merc. - which he bought.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    There are probably 500 T/Cs on Ebay. Every LM dealer in my town has lots of used T/Cs with low mileage on them. If you're looking for older than 4 years, that may take a little work, but they are definitely out there. Check estate sales. People die with these cars in their garage all the time, hardly used.
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    Why wait? Start cruising nursing home parking lots! (for cars - not for dates)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    maybe go for the dates!!! Sooner or later they die.

    I can see it now, an obituary reading, "John David Northamerican, died at age 87, leaving behind 2 brothers, his wife Eunice, 3 children and a 97 Cranberry Town Car Executive with 68,000 miles. 555-9865."
  • Good evening gentlemen.........I picked up my 2000 TC
    on 2 Sep 03 and I love it! As the car is warming up, I hear what sounds like a fog horn blaring from under the hood. Would I be correct in assuming it might be a pump for the air bags.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    You would probably be correct. As these age, they get pretty loud. No fix for that other than a new one, so just enjoy the Titanic blast :)
  • I am glad to hear the explanation for that noise. My town car is a 2003 but down the road if mine made that noise it would scare the heck out of me.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    It's only loud on the outside, really. Kind of a hum on the inside. Not unbearable.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I rented an 04 Signature Friday and drove it around all day. For the life of me, I don't understand why they have quit putting a comfortable and supportive seat in these cars! It made my rump sore and my back ache, and was generally like sitting in an Impala to me! The Impala may have had something over this actually. I was SO glad to get back in my Navigator! What is up with Lincoln? The car runs great, handles superbly, really performs as a cruiser. But I would have to refuse one based on the miserable seat.
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    When I said we had to quit meeting this way, I didn't mean for you to buy a Chevy! Well, if you must, you must. We'll miss you, but will keep a light on.

    How do you know its the seat and not your rump?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    There's no place for a Chevy in MY garage.... I'm just saying, the seat felt like my neighbor's Impala, which I can't stand. I am wondering why a comfortable seat isn't a priority to Lincoln for this car. BUT, as you say, it could just be my expanding [non-permissible content removed] needs the Navigator sized seat to accomodate it these days......

    Thanks for the jab :)
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    Nothing else significant to say. Sorry.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    It's like watching your car turn it's first 100,000 miles, isn't it?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I am at a loss to explain the difference. As I posted earlier, I was woefully disappointed in my 04 Town Car Signature rental last Friday, particularly the seat. But also, it had no memory seat functions, no lumbar support, no wood steering wheel. It felt very decontented and cheap.

    Now, today, I'm renting an 03 Town Car Signature, and it's an entirely different story! It has all the features the 04 didn't have, the seat is very supportive and comfortable, and even the radio sounds 100% better!!!! Has a wood steering wheel, the 04 Signature didn't.

    So, my question is: Have they cheapened the 04 T/Cs that go to Hertz now? Or have they cheapened them all? Or what???? Anybody know?

    I would gladly drive this 03, it's a beautiful car. The 04 was so much less of a car.
  • I think what you are seeing is that the 03 signature was one step up from the Executive. In 04 the executive is no longer availiable and the signature is actually the executive. My 03 executive has the lumbar support but none of the other things you mention that the 03 signature has.I have no complaints with my 03 executive seats and overall I am pleased with the car.I haven't seen or driven an 04 signature,but it sounds like it is not the car an 03 executive is.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I bet that's it exactly, because the 04 Signature was so spartan, it felt like an Executive with no options. So, in 04, what's the step up? Do they still make the Cartier?
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    Its been replaced by the Ultimate. The last year for it was '03, I think. My first real experience with how crummy the seats have gotten was in an '02 or '03 Cartier. I sat for a while in the '04 Ultimate at the car show last month and was equally unimpressed. But, as you observe, NV, nice car - crappy seat.
  • Beernut is correct. The signature is the base model and the Ultimate and Ultimate L are the upscale editions.Sad to see the cartier name gone.
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    Does that make my Cartier a collector's item? I knew that if I kept it long enough the value would start going up!
  • gkarggkarg Posts: 230
    Sadly, beernut - if its a Lincoln - the resale value is going down - no matter what level.

    I have an '81 Mark VI Cartier - probably worth about $500. It does need a paint job - badly.

    My 2000 LS V6 - LOADED, probably wouldn't get $15,000 at a dealer today. It should be worth much more.

    I do think the Lincoln SUV's are holding better than the cars.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Cartier, Signature and Executive levels for the Town Car were easily understood, appealed to the public, and I think they had equity. This Ultimate, Luxury & Convenience packaging program Ford has now may be fine for Fords, and even Mercurys, but Lincoln should stay with some of the things that have worked for them for so many years. I had a Continental Signature, and a Continental Executive in 90 & 92. I think of them fondly still. They made sense to me.

    I would not be happy to have a Town Car Ultimate, when you can also get a Grand Marquis Ultimate, and a Monterey Ultimate. Grrrr.
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    I was joking about the value going up, of course, but my father, who owned my Cartier for years, was sure that if he kept it in the garage for ten years it would magically be worth more after he finally pulled it out than when he drove it in. Its an '88 with a little over 50k on it and although it looks showroom in and out, I drive the damned thing. Back when I believed that everything I owned was worth its weight in gold (like most folks do) I always had a hard time selling things because I asked too much for them. Once I got into my 40's, I figured out that a car is a hunk of metal.. no more, no less, and is only worth what someone will pay you for it. God only knows why these great Lincolns plummet in price like they do. I'll just keep enjoying them until they convince me to quit by offering horrible seats and stupid names - which may be soon, the way its going.

    BTW, my first car was an Executive - by Pontiac.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Cars were made to be driven, beernut - I'm a firm believer in that. Otherwise they should be in a museum, for many to enjoy. But just storing one for the sake of preserving it doesn't work for me either.
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    I finally got to Chicago this weekend and drove my dad's new Grand Marquis LS for a few days. Its a very good-looking car in white with light gray leather. BUT ... the seats!! I could hardly tell by look OR feel whether it was leather or vinyl. The seat offered OK support I guess but it is damned hard and not plush at all. I also noticed two other things. First, the suspension is VERY stiff and unforgiving. Every pimple in the road got sent right into the seat and floor - not a quiet ride like I expected. Second, the engine is a monster! It goes from 50 to 80 mph in the wink (or two) of an eye! He says its a 4.6 but I notice that there are three different HP's for the 4.6. Is there an easy way to tell which it is with certainty? Also, is there such a thing as the Police Interceptor nowadays? I'm thinking that a police package might explain the hard ride and the acceleration.
  • Bummer about the seats. I haven't been in a new Grand Marquis lately; I didn't know they were getting bad.

    03 and 04 Crown Vics (and presumably GM's) have different damping and valving in the shocks. Lots of folks have been complaining about the ride. I think Ford is in the process of coming up with a fix.

    Also, there is a handling and performance package available on the Grand Marquis (and Crown Vic) it firms up the ride a bit from the regular. Your dad's car might have this. Count the tailpipes. If there are two, it has HPP. The dual exhaust puts output up to 239 hp and 287 ft-lbs, and includes a 3.27 rear instead of the regular (I forget which is standard at the moment) 2.73 or 3.08.

    The Police Interceptor (aka P71) is alive and well. There is no such thing as a police package Grand Marquis, though at least one pd I know of in Canada bought a Monkey for a chief's car. The P71 has the same engine as an HPP or a current Town Car. The suspension is different from either, lacking air bags and having higher spring and shock rates than civilian models. If you think the GM rides hard, you haven't been in a cop car lately. P71's are not "officially" sold new to private individuals. There are ways around this for folks who really want one.

    It sounds like your dad has an HPP Grand Marquis.
  • beernutbeernut Posts: 329
    Just curious.. where do the duals start from, the manifolds or a crossover?

    I saw in Consumer Reports that the GM also comes with a 302HP. Where do you find one of those? Is it just an option or does it come on the Ultimate (oh, there's that bad TC word again) or the Marauder?
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