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Audi A8

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    How much is an S55 AMG...135-140k?? Mercedes wins the HP wars, but it comes with an outrageous price. And I personally wouldn't want 600hp in a rear wheel drive car anyway. It's overkill.

    Well the outgoing S55 was like 120K, not 140. I think anything over 300hp is overkill as it surely isn't needed. It is done for bragging rights. The S8 is a bargain compared to AMG S-Classes for sure, but well under 100K the M5 will see it off quite easily. The Quattrporte also comes to mind. While the S6 is a nice car it really doesn't stand a chance against the E55 or M5. Sometimes I wonder why they'd even bother with an S6 and not just do a RS6 with the proper hp to compete with the M5 and upcoming E63. The S6 could be seen however as a superb alternative to a fully loaded E500 or 550i for a lot of buyers, so I guess it does have a place. They need a RS6 to compete with the AMG/M versions though.

    M
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    not for us here in the good U.S. of A. The Europeans have been enjoying this car since the last-gen A6. This thing crushed the last-gen E55 and M5 in a comparo about 2 years ago. Question??? WHY DON'T THEY JUST IMPORT IT TO MAKE US GAS HAPPY AMERICANS SATISFIED?

    One problem that I was unaware of is it's price. The RS6 back then costed upwards of 90k, when the others were fully-stacked @ 70-75k, so I can only imagine what this one would cost over here, especially with the bargain S8 at only $96k.
    BUT, the performance speaks volumes about the automobile. Yes, this is the car that it will take to sloooooooowwwwww down the AMG kids. But all is not lost. It seems Audi is a little weary that BMW is dropping a V-8 in the upcoming M3, so it seems that an import version of the hot RS4 will be coming to our shores. This will be a very exciting addition to the already (IMO) M3-beating S4.

    But for now, i'll just be content in my luxo-boat until that time.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well we had that RS6 also, for the 2003 model year. It is out of production now though.

    I'm hoping that they'll do a new generation RS6 based on the new S6.

    M
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    The current S65 AMG lists for $172,375. V12 w/ about 600hp.

    The S55 has 493hp and it's the most likely rival for the new V10 S8. It lists for about 117k. The S8 will be about 95k or so.

    If you have this much money, 20 grand won't kill you. But I think the S8 will be a better looking car. And I like the X factor of having a V10 engine, even though the MB has a bit more HP. I'd want AWD with anything over 400hp in my car anyway.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Yeah we had the RS6. But it was so unfindable that you had a better chance at an M5 or E55. The last-gen RS6 was a blast to drive and I'm pretty sure the new one is even better.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Can't argue with you about the looks of the S8, stunning car. Some pics I took at Detroit:

    imageimageimage

    This is the Audi rocket though, the RS4:

    image

    M
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    to the States this past Friday and I took my W-12 and blasted to the Hamptons Saturday. Upon my arrival at my buddy's house, there appeared what looked like an '07 S550. Quite naturally I got excited as this would be my first S550 I've seen in the States. It was a gorgeous pearlescent white on oak color combo.

    Once I got over my intitial infactuation with the car, I entered my friends house and the first question was, whose car is that? He said it's his for the rest of the year. Well quite naturally it would be his seeing how is a top exec at DCX.

    So to make a long story short, I got a chance to drive the car, which was a full-production model @ about $111K. The car drove splendidly well, markedly better than my '05 S65 or the '01 S500. I enjoyed the body control and ride quality that it had. It was very entertaining and the new 4-valve V-8 is years ahead of the 3-valver it replaces. Better throttle response and it sounds better through the rev range than that of my 2001 S500. With that said, I wonder why Mercedes skimped out on the interior. Don't get me wrong, it's interior is better than the outgoing '06 model, particularly how the panels line up and the interior material choice is appropiate at this price range. Everything feels rich. BUT, this ain't no Audi. The center stack, even tho better than the old one, looks cheap. The window switches remind me of my '72 Caddy Eldo convertible. They have a metallic look to them that doesn't go with the rest of the car. And can we say i-Drive, part 2. It is almost a direct clone. They could've learned a thing or two from Audi's MMI.

    On the other hand, he drove my W-12 and was immediately impressed. He had never driven a new A8, so he was shocked at the way the car behaved, especially since the car is such a sleeper. He said that he wishes that he could hire the entire interior design team away from the VW Group and install them at DC. His remarks were that the seats are exemplary, and the choice of plastics, leather's, wood's, and fabrics are nothing short of outstanding.

    After a few(ok, way too many) drinks, I asked, if you had to choose, which car would you take home today? Shockingly, he said the Audi. I said even tho it's been on the market for 2 years, it's not the "in" car right now. He replied that it doesn't matter; the time and effort that Audi puts in their cars speaks volumes about the product that they put on the market.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Thanks for the firsthand input about the new Mercedes..Sounds like the car is a winner, but I am a little surprised about the seats...I would think that they would have ben more to rave about...They and Lexus have some pretty hard seats, and I would have thought they would have plushed them up just a bit....I notice that I can drive the Audi far longer and not get fatigued ,than the Lexus.. We got a bit of snow up here in the mountains and the Audi did fine with the all seasons..Audi might not be the `Hot` car but I think it is getting warmer and warmer...Do you notice how quickly it does get warm on the inside....For me quicker than any other car I have ever had..Now if I had about just four hundred hp and the leather headliner I would have `the car` Tony
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    I'm on my way to return my grandaughter. We've had her for the weekend, and we're going out now to Bronxville from Queens. We've had more than 20" in Central Park and well over 12" in Queens.

    I'll let you know how it went when we return.

    eric
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    The trip was totally uneventful..and that's a good thing. Most major road were clear, and the secondary and tercieary roads where no obsticle for my car. I saw other vehicles stuck and skidding, but I just kept on turckin'.

    This is a new experience for me. My last two cars where a BMW 330CI Convertible w/sports package and a Porsche Boxster w/sports package. Both of which would do 360s with more than 3 snowflakes on the ground!

    eric
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I went out on the Long Island Sound earlier today. As you know, we New Yorkers are experiencing a Nor'easter, one heck of a storm. The W-12 proved a steady cruiser, especially if the car even thought about sliding or skidding, the stability and traction controls quelled it that instance. The quattro system is without a doubt, BEST among the AWD luxo sedans(Merc-4Matic, Volvo AWD, etc). This car has proved to me to be an all-weather vehicle, so much so that I'm thinking of selling my Jeep JGC and just keeping my Commander for my very rare off-road excursions.

    Now if we can get rid of the snow, I'll be able to enjoy the dry side of the W-12's performance.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Interesting review. Mercedes nor BMW "work" the materials when it comes to design like Audi does IMO. That said I think the S600 would be the right car to compare a W12 A8 with.

    M
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Hi Eric---Long time--The snow storm started down here and then built as it tracked north...We only got a few inches, but enough for a test...I just wondered about how deep a snow you could have and not scrape the bottom...I kept the car elevated, but don`t think that it would go much deeper than five inches or so...What`s the magic number?? Tony
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    They say we had over 26" of snow in Central Park, but here in Queens (about 7 miles away), I would say we have nearer to 15".

    I had the car raised for the first part of my traveling, but quickly brought it back down when I realized I was not where near bottoming out.

    As was said, the car handle with aplomb and is a pleasure to drive even in this pretty bad weather.

    (e)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    It doesn't matter which model when it comes to the interior. Even the base A8 outscores all of it's competition in this category.

    Now far as model designation is concerned in the performance area, sure, it's only fair to compare apples-to-apples. The W-12 and the S600. The S600 is faster, but the W-12 is a much better cocoon to enjoy the scenery in.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well I haven't been in the new S yet since they didn't allow anyone to sit in them at Detroit. I would still generally agree that the Audi has a better interior more so in looks and design than just sheer better materials, IMO.

    M
  • I've read through quite a few pages and see your name keep popping up. I'm gathering you're somewhat of an expert. I'm interested in the A8L but my son just found some stuff from Consumer Reports which suggests reliability issues. How long have you been an Audi owner and what is your experience/knowledge of A8 reliability issues? Appreciate your candor.
  • Can any A8 L owner tell me how much over invoice I should expect to pay? What are your experiences?
  • What are the 16 ways the front seats move? I can't find anything online or in the A8L brochure.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    My Audi W-12 has been mechanically flawless(save the headlamp issue) throughout this first 3200 miles. The car is as solid as vault, and I get better than expected mileage from a car with 12 cylinders and 450hp.

    As to the reliabililty issues from Consumer Reports, one sentence: Don't believe everything you read. Case and point:

    I owned a '98 Lexus LS400, which at the time was supposed to be the reliablilty king in the luxury car biz. At 4000 miles, the PCM(computer) went out, at 12300 miles the tranny, and then at 35000 miles the front suspension needed major work(bushings, control arms, and tie-rod ends). All was done under warranty true enough, but this is still a Toyota in a tux, so these issues should be non-existant.

    By comparison, the Consumer Reports has both the BMW 750il and Mercedes S-Class with subpar reliability standings. Well I've owned both, and besides the Bimmer's i-Drive unit crashing twice and the Merc's fuel management system problem on the 2001 S500, they were all excellent reliable cars. My Audi has needed nothing more than 93 octane to keep it going.

    Reliability ratings on most luxury cars are going to be generally lower than those on a run-of-the-mill car. So yes, an Audi A8 will have lower reliability ratings than a VW Jetta or Beatle. A LS430 will not have the same reliability rating as a Camry, nor will a Acura RL acheive the high levels of reliability a Honda Accord has, and so on. This all is because most luxo cars come with so many gadgets that they are generally included in what "breaks down" from time to time. BMW, Audi, Jag, Merc, Lexus, Acura, even Caddy vehicles are overloaded with techno-gadgets that will over a long period of time start to have difficulties. But this is to be expected as nothing works forever, Laws of Science.

    As for the price, you may find some eager dealers willing to go for invoice pricing. My sister just bought a S4 Cab for $500 over invoice, which was a spectacular deal seeing how there are only a handful S4 Cabs imported.

    Alas, the seats. The 16-way Multi-Adjustable seat is a marvel of a seat. The cushion actually adjusts seperately of the rest of the seat, the headrest adjusts are power, it tilts fore and aft, it's height adjustable, and the W-12's have a cooling fuction(I think the A8L's have it as an option). The seats are so comfortable that you'll never get the fatigued feeling associated with most German leather seats.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I had a chance to sit in the new S-Class a few days ago at the Chicago autoshow and you were right, the S while nice doesn't have the overall feeling of the A8 when it comes to the warmth of the interior. The Mercedes feels of high quality for sure, much better than the outgoing S, but it still feels asture compared to the Audi. Long live the VW empire when it comes to interior dominance!

    Oh, the 7-Series is nice too, but I like the S even better than it.

    M
  • Thanks for response. Can you tell me what you know about the Security glass option? I live in climate which is fairly warm in summer but I'm wondering if glass might be necessary to reduce wind noise even more . . . perhaps it will make no difference with wind noise. :)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The new S is years ahead of the outgoing '06 model. Don't get me wrong, the 3-pointed star will still reign supreme in luxury car biz, no matter how good the Audi's interior is.

    However, I think this was Mercedes oppurtunity to put the rest of the industry out to pasture. But in typical M-B fashion, they did bring to the industry some new technology. The new laser cruise control is one heck of a breakthrough in this market(any market), particularly how it stops on a dime and resumes speed again without driver initial input. And since they couldn't get the interior to Audi levels, they did give it new fiber-optic lighting. But here they fumbled the ball too, incorporating the i-Drive-like infotainment center.

    But again, M-B has one thing up it's sleeve that nobody can touch: POWER, and lots of it. The S550 scoots to 60 in 5.5 seconds, with only 362-hp to move a four and half ton car, that is remarkable. The 7-G tranny is just phenomenal. This is how Merc makes the most out of their engines, and for the first time they'll offer it on the super-fast AMG models and the S600.

    So to sum it up, no the interior is not up to VW/Audi standards, but Merc set the bar even higher for the rest of the field envoking it's provocative styling(a first for an M-B) and adding some of the most tasteful technology and right-out power ever.

    P.S.- I think I'm starting to like the styling now that I've stood so close to one.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I have the security glass(which is standard on the W-12, optional on the standard and L models), and it is laminated and double-paned, which is the reason that the option is rather expensive(about 600 bucks). Some other automakers have so-called "security glass", but it's nothing more than a 3M-applied laminate that has been adhered to the glass.

    The glass does make for one extraordinary quiet ride, in fact maybe a little to quiet. You can't hear any road rumble and only when you get up to about 90 mph does any wind noise come around the mirrors. It also is a worthy option, IMO, as the glass is 5 times more rigid than the standard single pane, which adds to security in the event that a perp will try to break a window to enter the car. Even the side glass on the rear doors are double-paned.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    LOL...I think you meant a 2 1/2 ton car, not a 4 1/2 ton car. Not even a Bentley weighs that much!

    Well German carmakers operate on the monkey see, monkey do system. Once BMW did it, Audi felt compelled and there was no way Mercedes was going to be left out so there you have it.

    M
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    I also have the double paned glass and the solar paneled moon roof...I like both, but you may not want the solar panel, as it does not have an inside movable screen...It opens and tilts though....I like the solar powered blower as it keeps the car coler and fresher as it sits in the sun...Further I got the leather coverd center console and wish I had gotten the leather headliner...At the time I thought it was expensive for what you got...Tony ps no problems with three thousand miles other than hitting the tire tread on the road....unavoidable
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Sorry, 21/2 ton car, not 8500 pounds(lol). This is a Mercedes, not a Hummer H1.:P
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    I picked up my A8L 4.2 in the end of December. My only "regret" is that I did not order the insulated glass. From what I have learned, it contributes to the quality of the ride....not that the ride quality in mine is at all shabby!

    ...and for me the lumbar massage and ventilated seats were a must.

    Eric
  • A friend and I were discussing the A8 w-12 and we disagree on the origin of the engine. Is this engine specific to Audi or is it a global VW engine meaning used in Phaeton and in some form the Bentley? Definitive proof also helpful.
    Thanks!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The W12 engine is used in the Audi A8 W12, Phaeton W12, Bentley Continental GT and Bentley Flying Spur. In the Bentleys it is twin-turbocharged.

    Roadtest of the Bentley Continental GT.

    A quote: "The 6-litre W12 engine shipped over from Audi, complete with a brace of turbos, is more than up to the job, though. It produces 551bhp at 6100rpm and masses of torque, 480lb/ft at 1600rpm."

    Plenty of aritcles on Audi/VW/Bentley and their shared usage of the W12 can be found here.

    M
This discussion has been closed.