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Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Volkswagen Passat

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Comments

  • jin_satxjin_satx Posts: 40
    Before you go test drive, read the Edmunds Family
    Car Comparison Test at the Edmunds homepage. The Accord and Passat were the top two cars in the test. As for the Galant, they rated the backseat as abysmal and with two growing kids you will never get five people in this car. I owned a 94 Galant LS fully loaded and had awful luck with the transmission (replaced), electrical system (gremlins everywhere), and bad squeaks and rattles etc. I bought a 00 Accord EXLV6 for the wife and a 00 Passat GLX for myself. While I like the Accord, wife loves it, I love my Passat, best car I've ever owned. While the Accord is a great transportation car, the Passat is truly a "drivers" car. Both have excellent visability and the best backseat room of any cars in this class. Good luck with your search, but I wouldn't even bother with the Galant. Yes, I know it's cheaper and gives you a lot of features, but you get what you pay for.
  • titopuentetitopuente Posts: 46
    Haven't been around for a while and this forum is sooo slow!!!

    DAmnit let me jump start it....

    #1 Accord
    #2 Passat
    #3 Camry

    Accord felt more sporty than the Passat...the Passat leans more, and the Accord felt like it had more power even though they have the same power....probably its the Accord's 150 lb/ft torque peak @ 2750 rpm (as stated in another forum) and another VTEC peak 152 lb/ft @ 4500 rpm...nice!

    Passat has nicer interior look, but not ergonomics.

    ACCORD is the best of the 3 IMO....actually it is the best of the 3.
  • genes555genes555 Posts: 10
    seems as though the transmission problems with the accord are more serious than we thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    there was someone reporting transmission failure with an accord ex v6 with production date 04/2000 and the car only had 30 miles on it!!! and sure enough the owner noticed a clunk after she bought her car!!!!!!!!

    numerous owners have been reporting oil leaks, transmission leaks, misfires, speedometers being off, harsh shifting, transmission whine, various rattles and squeaks, engines conking out at 70 mph, fuel boilover problem, high road and wind noise and the list goes on and on with new cars that cost $25,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and numerous owners have reported failure with their older model(94-97) accord that are failing due to various causes including rocker arm failure.... i guess the high revving nature of honda engines does take its toll on metal......

    after all the indy(champ) cars do go fast but the engines barely last 500 miles and often times not even that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and they get rebuilt after almost every race!!!

    here's the link... that shows the owner of the accord( production date 04/2000) whose transmission failed at 30 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i think it was post #470. also #482 is related to it.

    the following is topic #1886 in the Smart Shopper forum called

    'honda accord issues'

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?t=1886&c=Smart_Shopper&w=E

    then there are the forums in the Maintenance forum #720 that has owners talk about quality problems with the honda accord called

    'does honda really live up to its name'

    in the first post #0 you will find an owner of a 1998 honda accord ex v6 whose transmissions failed at 30,000 miles along with a plethora of other problems....

    then 3 posts later in post #3 you will find a 4 cylinder accord owner whose car failed at 5500 miles and the car was only 3 months old!!!!!!!!!!

    (note: the oracle setup at edmunds will only let you go foward to the end of a certain topic so you may have to go forward 40 topic then back, to see post #3, or you can just put in #3 in the goto box)

    here it is...

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?
    c=Maintenance&f=0&t=720&q=0-

    but the thing that blows me away is the fact that the regional office and american honda assured him that a new transmission would be put in when indeed a remanufactured( read: some else's broken tranny: used) tranny was put in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i mean the sounds like he is beside himself with rage that
    honda lied to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    there was another owner whose tranny was replaced that was told by the service manager of the dealership that 28 remanufactured tranny's were on back order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i wonder how many other customers were lied to or not told the truth..........

    so the honda accord transmission problems do go back to 1998 and does affect 4 cylinder models!!!!!! and recent (04/2000 production) accords as well.

    yeah isellhondas has been telling you otherwise but that not what the actual owners are saying. and besides he is a honda salesman so what is he gonna tell you???

    then there's another topic pertaining to the reliability or lack of it in the maintenance forum #903 called

    'HONDA ACCORD PROBLEMS'

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=Maintenance&f=0&t=903&q=0-

    and the clunk that so many people are complaining about is not even clunk or jerk that one hears or feels when the gear is moved from P to R or D to R but rather an audible clunk that is heard and sometimes felt after the car has been moving 5 to 10 feet like one owner with a replaced tranny pointed out!!!!!!

    and this noise is known to happen when in drive as well!!!!!!!! then there's the issue of tranny whine and the shudder that won't go away!!!!!!!!
    along with numerous other problems!!!!!!!!!!

    check 'em out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i was flabbergasted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Try to get an answer as to why Honda is not allowing recall/tsb data to be devulged to www.alldata.com thus the public?? Why are other manufactures letting consumers see this data? I called the number but was shifted here and there. Here is the link try yourself. http://www.alldata.com/includes/honda_notice.html
    No data for 1999/2000 Honda's, Hmmm...
  • sanandtonsanandton Posts: 342
    I have found this site just today. Please tell me the previous post is a joke (as I suspect it is). I have a 99 Accord LX and absolutely love it. I have had several new cars in the last 7 years (Toyota, GM x2, Ford x4, saturn,) Not a single one has even come close to the quality and reliability of the Honda. I find the Accord is head and shoulders above the troublesome $35k fords and GM products I have owned. Yes it is plain, but d#!# Honda sure builds a great car! If you want something to really complain about, go out and spend $35-$40k on a piece of American Junk. You find yourself cruising wantingly by the Honda dealer on your way to the service dept for the domestic car (if it is running at all)!
  • AcuraGRLAcuraGRL Posts: 15
    sanandton: I also have a 99 Accord (EX 5-speed) and it is great. 30,000 miles and not one glitch.

    I do recommend replacing your factory spark plugs with Bosch Platinum +4's. I recently did this right before I took it to the dealer for the 30,000 mile service and it makes a big difference. I also use Synthetic oil. Not sure if it makes much difference but I have used it in every car I've owned.
  • jmb979jmb979 Posts: 1
    Right on jin_satx!

    This person who went on and on about how unreliable Honda's are must be a big Ford, GM or "something" lover. I currently own a '91 Accord and totally love the car. It never really gave me problems and never broke down on me withing the 132,000 miles I put on it. In about a year or so, I am considering on buying a new car. My top choices are the Passat and the Accord, since I prefer sporty-handling cars. The Passat does seem pricey and the dealers do not make deals since it is a high ranked car. However as the case may be, I might buy another Accord. Then again, I may wait for the replacement for the Acura Integra. I'll just have to wait and see!
  • lillady1lillady1 Posts: 1
    First of all I want to say thank you to EVERYONE in this forum. I am an 18 year old female who currently owns a 1992 Honda Accord (I have had it for 4 years now) that I am personally in love with. However, my mother owns a 1998 Toyota Camry. For the past few hours I have been jumping for web site to web site in search of helpful information. I am now contemplating buying a new car or at least a newer model car. The three cars I have been interested in are Camry, Corrola, or another Honda. After reading all the posting in this forum and in several other forums, I have come to the conclusion to buy another Honda Accord. I am looking for a car with reliability and good performance. I am, also looking for a car that can handle long trips, because I do travel. All in all, I just wanted to say that I have little to no knowledge about cars in general, but after reading these postings I feel confident enough to say it will definately be an Accord. Once again, to EVERYONE in here...Thank you. The knowledge that you have bestowed on me within such a short period of time is astounding. Sincerely, Lillady1

    PS to any other females within this forum: I hope you don't find my name offensive, it is just that when I first entered this forum that is how I felt like a little lady but now I feel much more confident. Thank you.
  • gpwgpw Posts: 2
    I would like to buy a Honda Accord EX 4 cylinder, and have considered a 4 cyl. Camry as well. I would prefer a manual transmission if I can find one. I would appreciate comments on wether or not you folks feel that a 4 cyl. engine is sufficient for this size car. I don't need to burn rubber, but I want to be able to feel like my car has enough gusto to pull out in traffic, pass, etc. Thank you.
  • AcuraGRLAcuraGRL Posts: 15
    gpw: I have an Accord 4 cylinder with a 5-speed and feel that is has more than enough power for everyday driving. I have never felt that it didn't have enough power to pull out in traffic or to merge at highway speeds.

    I can't comment on a Camry 4 cylinder 5-speed because I have never driven one. However, if I am not mistaken the 5-speed is EXTREMELY hard to find in the Camry. Accord's seem to be a little easier to come by with a manual transmission.
  • gpwgpw Posts: 2
    Thanks for your help! Actually, I am 95% certain that I will be getting an Accord and not the Camry, due to previous good luck with Honda's. Where I live it is hard to find 5 speed Accords also (maybe because we live in a retirement area), so I will probably have to order one.

    If anyone else has comments on this topic, I would appreciate them.
  • youmsyoums Posts: 2
    I love my new 2000 Passat GLS w/Auto, although I have been happy with my 95 Accord LX! It has been 28 days / 1300 miles since I bought The Passat. Before making the purchase decision, I test-drove Accord V6 and Camry V6. The Camry is simply too expensive for what it is and feels too cheap inside, the seats are very uncomfortable. Having been a loyal Honda owner in the past 15 years (2 Civics and 2 Accords), I found the new Accord not really a whole lot better than my ‘95 Accord. The auto transmission is too jerky, even for V6. Too much wind noises, too.

    I was not so impressed when I first test-drove Passat. I bought it because of its standard features, a lot of car for the money. But as days go by, the more I drive, the more I like it. Smooth, excellent seats, powerful, and quiet. I tested the brakes in one windy and stormy night. The car stopped straight and short from high speed. Excellent!

    But, I wish the VW quality control could be as outstanding as Honda’s. The MPG display in the MFD has been out of order after just 3 days. It went crazy! Sometimes goes up to 140, even 200 miles per gallon! Although it really has no effect to the driving performance, but everything should work as it is supposed to, period. The fabric of the seats is too easy to trap lint; there is no small compartment for tokens and changes; the cup holders are a joke. No big deal, but an amazing car like this should not let details like these escape.

    For 5 years, I had ZERO trouble with my ‘95 Accord. Let’s see if this Passat can be as reliable.
  • chrisneechrisnee Posts: 11
    I have a 98 Accord LX 4 Cylinder, automatic. There is more than enough power in this car. When passing or merging into freeway, I just step on the gas a little harder, the engine revs to 3000-3500 rpm and off it goes. I believes that rpm range is where the peak torque is, allowing the car to accelerate quite nicely. A V-6 would be nice, but an I-4 in this car is more than adaquate.
  • sanandtonsanandton Posts: 342
    Have a 99 LX. Find the engine quite peppy. Acceleration is quick. Equally quick in passing at freeway speeds. Never a concern about merging or pulling into traffic from a stop. Only notice the typically "quiet as a sewing machine" engine gets noticeably louder under full pressure on the gas pedal.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I just bought a 99 LX 5spd and this car goes. Once it reaches about 25-30 you can feel the engine open up and start to breath. My wife and I test drove a Jetta and it was nice and solid. But interior room and options were pretty sparse.. The Passat was way out of our price range.
  • jin_satxjin_satx Posts: 40
    I have both a 00 Accord EXLV6 and a 00 Passat GLX.
    The Accord is the wife's car and the Passat mine. While I like the Accord, great value for the $$$$$, I love my Passat. The two cars are really different, just goes to show Japanese thinking versus German thinking. Yes the Passat uses better materials and the fit and finish is the best I've ever seen in a car in this price class. There are numerous things better on the Passat, such as the stereo, memory power seats, rain sensor wipers,trunk Hinges, auto trans, ride and handling, solidity, etc. etc. That said, the Passat should be better, it cost me $4500 more than the Accord. Both fine cars, but the Passat is just a dream.
  • ritzillaritzilla Posts: 1
    Hi Folks! My name is Ricahrd, and I am diligently
    trying to research a used Volkswagon I've had my
    eye on all week! Presently I'm weighing my options
    between a 1991 Accord EX and a 1993 VW Passat GLS VR6
    "Special Anniversary Edition"? Does anyone have
    info pertaining to this particular VW model. The
    only models I've discovered for that year are the
    GL or the GLX - and nowhere have I found info on
    the VR6 for that year, not to mention the existance
    of an Anniversaty edition. Any news would be much
    appreciated by me and my wife.
  • My cars are not new. So this response is for those who own newer Accords and Camrys and want an idea of what to expect if they hold on to them for a while. I had a '92 Camry XLE 4 cylinder, purchased new. It had 150,000 miles on it when it was totalled last year in a highway accident. Both my wife and I walked away without a scratch, so I have nothing but praise for its crashworthiness. Absent that accident, I believe I'd have kept the car another 2-3 years, or until 200,000. Had not a single problem with it. One of the best cars I ever owned.

    My other car is a '95 Accord EX 5-speed coupe, purchased new. Car has 93,000 miles in over 5 years. Not a single problem; I've done nothing other than routine maintenance. But for the dings, dents and scrapes that come with parking at the malls, this car could pass for new. I still get anywhere from 31 to 34 miles per gallon, something I'm much more conscious of now with gas going for $1.50. The seats are confortable, car handles the road exceptionally well. My wife and daughter think I'm crazy when I tell them I'm keeping this car another 10 years. By then I should still be under 300,000. I think this car just might do it.

    So, all you owners of "00 Camrys and Accords, you got yourselves cars that will go the distance. Treat 'em right and enjoy.
  • Richard, just read your post about which to buy - '91 EX or '93 Passat. Look at my posting, #354, and consider this additional information. My daughter leased a '95 VW Jetta "Celebrity Edition" for 3 years while in college. Don't ask me what "Celebrity Edition" means - probably much the same thing as "Special Anniversary Edition". I think it only refers to the wording on the nameplate they stick on the side of the car. Anyway, the car had electrical problems, sunroof problems, went through tires like I couldn't believe. I drove it a couple times and, while it was quick and cozy, it was noisy, turned at revs about 500 rpms higher than my Accord at similar highway speeds. Granted, we're talking Jetta, not Passat. But they're both VWs. At the end of its 3 years, the Jetta looked good but ran tired. I don't think it has the staying power to be a good used car. Just an opinion from a happy Honda owner.
  • lmtodd1lmtodd1 Posts: 6
    I have a 93 Accord LX Tenth Anniversary addition with 122,000 miles and it still runs great. I expect to get over 200,000 miles of driving out of it. On April 30, 2000 I bought a 2000 Accord EX four cylinder automatic. The car has several refinements over the 93 Accord, specifically in the way the transmission shifts. The quietness and the steering response are outstanding also. The only negative I have experienced is the stiffness(or firmness) of the driver's seat. I have some back problems and it makes my back a little sore on long drives. I have a little over 2,000 miles on the car and find that the seat is "breaking in" a little, but not as much and as soon as I would like it to. Has anyone else experienced discomfort with their driver's seat or did I just get one with a really firm seat?
  • tbear53tbear53 Posts: 4
    I've never driven a Honda before today, when I tested a '00 Accord EX v6 coupe. The car was very responsive, the ride was VERY firm, the car had a feeling of luxury... BUT... there was considerably more wind noise and road noise than I expected, the sound system was soso (didn't really have a chance to play with it much).
    My questions: Is wind/road noise characteristic of these cars? I'm not an audiophile, but spend 20+ hours/week in my car and a good stereo is key. Will I be disappointed? Have decided to test drive another one for sake of comparison and to spend some more time with the car. Probably most important, what kind of deal can I expect to get in the Chicago area. Dealer's initial price was $1450 over invoice, I'd buy at $300 over but don't know if that's realistic on Hondas in this area. Thanks in advance for your input.
    P.S. Spent some time reviewing this topic and really enjoyed the back and forth.
  • sanandtonsanandton Posts: 342
    I have noticed at least 3 recent post re: wind noise. It seems that they are all with the coupe. I have a sedan LX 99 year and do not notice the wind noise mentioned. I have owned 10 different vehicles in the last 10 years and my Accord is much quieter. Some of the previous mentioned vehicles were the most luxurious in their line. None were Lexus, infinti, or BMW though. I guess my question is.. Does the Air noise problem occur only on the coupes, or does it also happen on some Sedans?
  • markz2kmarkz2k Posts: 112
    I took a new Accord Sedan (EXV6) for an extended (3.5 hour) test drive yesterday. I too noticed wind noise that seemed like a lot. After returning the Accord and driving my 626 home, I realized mine had probably just as much wind noise, but never noticed it because it has more road noise than the Accord.

    I'm going to get the Accord, hopefully this week, but have to sell my car first. The amount I was offered as a trade was completely unacceptable.

    They must want to move some inventory, cause I was able to get them to match CarsDirect.com's price, which is under invoice! (So. CA)

    I wanted to compare it with Camry, but the toyota dealers have been unwilling to let me take an extended test-drive on my own. (I can't learn enough about the car in a 10-minute test drive with a salesperson talking about the car the whole time.) So, based on a couple of short drives in a Camry, and that a similarly equipped Camry is $3000 more than the Accord, looks like the Accord wins! (And so do I)

    It's kind of funny, cause when I first started looking, I was mainly considering Camry. I started seriously considering Accord after reading all the posts here on Edmunds about how great it was. After driving it, I gave it much more consideration!
  • jbratterjbratter Posts: 15
    tbear53,
    From all the postings I've read lately (hundreds!), there seems to be a common thread about the wind noise. However, it may also be due to everything else being a little quieter. Shouldn't be a significant issue. Regarding sound system, Honda's system is absolutely terrible. Rear speakers are pathetic. No dynamic range whatsoever. That said, you could probably replace the rear speakers with a higher quality pair and be happy. It's not the system, its the speakers (door speakers are good, though?!?). Just my $0.02...
  • jbratterjbratter Posts: 15
    I was debating the Accord Coupe vs Toyota Solara, but the wife put the kabash on me getting a coupe... Now that I have to look at sedans, Passat enters the picture. I'm not a fan of the Camry interior styling, so its between accord and passat. Can anyone tell me if Passat can be had at or around invoice, and if so, how much more does that put it above accord. Basically, I'm looking at accord se (4 cyl).
    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
  • jin_satxjin_satx Posts: 40
    Just spent the whole weekend with the wife's 00 Accord EXLV6 and it's a terrific car. I liked this car when I bought it and 5 months later I still like it. There is no more "preceptable" wind and road noise in the Accord than any other car in it's price class. You want to hear "noise", drive a 626, Altima, or, Galant. As for the road noise, most of it comes from the Mich MXV4 all season tires, which are good tires but noisy. As for the stereo, I agree with jbratter, good unit, better if you replace the rear speakers, which is not a big deal or expensive to do. My Accord has been flawless, no tranny probs, smooth V6, good handling, no squeeks or rattles, etc. etc. For the dollars I spent, 22,500 +TTL for a fully loaded EXLV6 Sedan, the Accord is a best buy in a crowded field. It many not be all that my 00 Passat GLX is, however, similiarly equipped, it was 5K less than the Passat making it a damn good "bargin".
  • What is a good price for a Accord EX V6? I see the the post above stating $22,500. Is that with or without destination charge? How much over invoice should I expect to pay for this car?
  • jin_satxjin_satx Posts: 40
    Invoice cost on an Accord EXLV6 is $22,255 which includes the destination charges. There have been some posts about below invoice pricing of 21 to 22K, but I don't know what areas and wether they are "bait and switch" ads. I paid 22,500 back in FEB., but I've been in the business and basically had to use the same dirty tactics on the dealer that he used on me. Try for a price between invoice and 500 over. If you have good credit or large downpayment this should be easy. Be careful of dealer "adds", such as paint sealent, dealer prep, fabric protection, etc.. They are all dealer profit and should not be paid for. Also, read all your documents carefully, my dealer tried to sneak in an extra 399 for dealer fees on my purchase order. Be wise and careful and you can get a good deal. If a dealership feels "creepy", it's probably a sleazeball dealership. If you must, get a price, but go buy it somewhere else. Simply take the price from this dealership and "shop" it, somebody will beat it. If you get a fair price and treatment from a dealer, don't hesistate to buy then and there. Saving a 100 just to shop it is not fair to the "good" dealerships, they deserve your business. You will probably get better service from this type of dealership and save more than 100 in the long run.

    Good Luck
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I've a '98 Accord with 43K miles. As far as wind noise goes, I hear it only when,
    1. It's gusty outside.
    2. I'm going too fast (80+ mph).

    Road noise is little more pronounced but depends on the surface type. Perhaps the Michelins don't like concrete surfaces or roads that have not been re-surfaced for years. These look like hard tires, but will last longer than most. My car's tires will ask for rest in about 15-20K miles from now! That's about 60K miles from the original set of tires.

    I have taken several long distance trips (from as little as 200 miles one way to 1200 miles one way), and the car is comfortable, responsive and fuel efficient (31-32 mpg on highway, in Dallas, averages 25-26 mpg depending on weather). I LIKE THE SEATS, so does my wife. They can be better, but not in terms of firmness, rather thigh support. Rear seat is extremely comfortable. I have not driven an Accord with cloth seats so can't say about it.

    I think invoice price on EXV6 must be around $22.5K, which is what I would had paid in October '97, instead I picked four cylinder model. LXV6 is about $2K less. This was when the car was new and there was no waiting time. Couple of months later (after my purchase), Accord V6 was in high demand, and selling at MSRP. Not sure if that continues in any way. Good luck.

    '98 Accord EX (black/Leather/auto)/42.9K flawless miles
    '00 Prelude (black/5-speed) / 9K fabulous miles
  • tbear53tbear53 Posts: 4
    ... for your input. Could you elaborate on dealer tactics and effective buyer negotiations you mentioned in post #364. Or point me to a forum/topic where I can learn more if you know of one.
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