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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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  • bhill2bhill2 Posts: 1,357
    Sorry for the slang. A driver on a side street forgot there was a stop sign and pulled DIRECTLY out in front of me when I was going about 45 with my wife beside me. Our Jag (XK8) was totalled, but we both opened our doors and walked away. This impressed us enough to go get another. I hope you enjoy Ray, I find him great fun to talk to.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv, 2001 Jaguar XK cnv, 1985 MB 380SE (the best of the lot)

  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    Just placed a bigger engine into 5-series and E series ? I do agree they are the best sports sedan on market,and demand is so strong. Do you know Chrysler will build its 5.7L hemi power 300N/convertable in 2004, the Hemi V8 engine has the same power as MB's 5.5L AMG V8, 353hp, big torque 393pound/foot at 4000rpm. If DC put the same tranny of E55 into hemi 300, I expect the same performance as E55. However, Chrysler only ask for no more than $40K, half price of E55, M5.
    I agree E55 and M5 are superior in quality and refinement, but are they worth 100% primium ? With stock market buble burst, so does this forum.
  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    Both the next generation Intrepid and Concorde will be rear wheel drive! While they will continue to be primarily V6 powered, using revised versions of the 2.7, 3.0 and 3.5 liter engines, Chrysler's hot new 5.7 liter, all aluminum HEMI V8 will be available as an option on both models.

    The cars will incorporate systems and components from Mercedes Benz, including: transmissions, steering columns, seat frames and axles. They will also be the first Chryslers to share electronic architecture with MB products.

    The LX cars will have a wheelbase four inches longer then the current LH cars but the overall length will be reduced by over a foot. Both width and height will be unchanged. Wheels will probably be in the 20-inch range and they will ride on wider tires.
  • 4426444264 Posts: 67
    What happens in 3 year's time is anyone's guest but I'm sure BMW & MB will have even more powerful sedans then.

    One thing for sure, Daimler Chrysler isn't going to shoot its own foot by offer a model as good as its best sports sedan at half the price. You don't see Ford doing it to Jaguar, and Daimler Chrysler won't do the same to MB.
  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    Yes. DC may improve E55 will even better engine or drop a 4-speed to Hemi 300N. I hope they do the first thing.
  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    Chrysler made supercars, the 300 series, many years before BMW. The "300F special" cars are among the most valuable postwar collection cars.
  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    but 300N maybe among the best $$$/performance car. That is what I care about. Consider similar powered S600 costs $120K. Do you think those toys(like massage seats) on S600 worth $80K more ? Of course rich people want to buy the high priced to show off. Most guys want to buy best price/performance car.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Well said.
  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    it is the 300N, based on info available now, if DC put the same tranny in E55 to the 300N, 300N(with 5.7L hemi V8, 20'inch wheels and P255 wide tires) will have the same performance as E55. At half price, it is a shame for $80K car that it can not beat a 40K car in term of power,speed and handling ? It is called super just because it is costly ?
  • wencaowencao Posts: 52
    CHRYSLER 300 HEMI® C CONCEPT ? It is basicly the convertable version of 300N. The only IF is what TRANNY will DC put in 300N, 4-speed or 5-speed or manual ? I wish M5, E55 will get better after 3 yrs, while 300N has the same performance of today's E55, enough,that is enough.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This conversation is about the vehicles named in the discussion title. Let's get back on topic.

    Some off-topic posts have been removed. This is a reminder that your Town Hall Terms of Use requires respectful and civil disagreement.

    If you want to talk about the Jag XJR, MB E55 and/or BMW M5, please continue.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • htwiredhtwired Posts: 62
    I have always been totlally taken by the original BMW M6; never had the right opportunity to buy one. I have seen artists renderinng of a new edition M6 supposably scheduled to be produced in 2004. Doe anyone know if the new M6 is reallly going to happen? I have opportunity to buy M6 locally its not mint but it has not been abused. After recent test drive I am wondering if waiting for new edition with current technology would be better choice?
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Well, you'll need something to drive in the meantime, won't you? Order the new one (Yes, I think it will happen, but that's just my opinion), and buy the used one to drive until it comes in. Enjoy.
  • gcoversgcovers Posts: 2
    Thanks for the your info from march 23, I will definitely touch base with the individuals you mentioned. Are you familiar with the $25,000 upgrades offered by Hennessey for XJR and XKR's and wether or not this is a good and reliable way to go.
  • I was the guy who posted the information (and request for information) on the XJR performance improvements. Haven't done anything yet. Mainly because I haven't made a decision on the XJR vs. the BMW M5.


    If you have any information on the Hennesey suite of modifications - particularly a website - I would love to see it! I haven't heard that name mentioned when discussing XJR improvements. Are they new at this, or a small shop? Arden of Germany (http://www.arden.de) seems like the leader in Jaguar improvements. However, getting their engine and exhaust modifications is almost impossible state-side. The other outfit is http://paramount-performance.com. They too seem to have their act together. Either one of these establishments would be prohibitively expensive for me. Paramount isn't good about returning voice calls or e-mail. Eurotek (http://eurotekdesigns.com) imports some of the Arden, Ritter and Carlsson components for installation in the U.S. The other thing I found out about the Arden engine modifications is that it generally requires high octance fuel (~98) that would interfere with some of the engine electronics on U.S. specification vehicles.


    What do you know about Hennessey???


    Thanks in advance...

  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    They do have a website of their own at

    http://www.hennesseymotorsports.com/


    Seems pretty similar to the other stuff you listed. Again, I am a bit suspicious about simply boosting the charger some more - if the additional horsepower comes at the cost of low-end torque, it's not worth it, in my opinion. The souped up interiors of the Paramount modifications seem pretty darn awesome, though. Pity Jaguar as a whole does not have some division that customizes cars some - the personalization market seems a bit lacking.

  • gcoversgcovers Posts: 2
    Hey Guys
    Looks like pablo already supplied the Hennessey motor sports web site. If you have 25K to burn this could be an option, although I would be seriously concerned with reliability, and octane requirements. I recently talked to Jeff at Wheeltec 1-800-939-4335, who is a rep for arden, he installed the pulley and an arden exhaust on an XKR. He assured me that the 2 psi boost increase from the pulley does not cause any detonation or pinging, even with our hot and humid South Florida weather and maximum 93 pump octane (on a good day). The 30 to 35 Horse increase appears to be a reasonable expectation. I also talked to a guy in Chicago who installed a 3:77 gear from Phil at Eurotek in his 98 XJ. He was totally blown away and insists on a full second improvement in 0-60 times,obviously he highly recommends it. Highway acceleration in access of 110mph might be slightly diminished but who really cares.Cruising rpm is slightly higher but no big deal due to the 5 speed overdrive. It lookes to me that a pully with an exhaust in addition to some gears is a perfect solution for my 2001 XJR, which is propably the way I am gonna go. Any comments or recommendations are greatly appreciated, otherwise I will check in again after moifications are complete.
    P.S. Does anybody know who reworks the pulley's locally in the U.S.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    So did you do the modifications to the XJR? Opinions? In the aftermath of this discussion, I briefly considered something like this, but I rather wait a few years 'til the warranty is over anyway...
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    God, this topic really went to the dogs with the high tech market crash... coincidence? :-)
  • Has anyone heard yet whether the 2002 M5 will have the option of the Sequential MultiGearbox like the M3?
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    no sequential on 2002 M5, perhaps the next generation M5 in 2004?
  • When you compare the specs of the M5, E55 AMG and Lexus GS430, they all hover around 3700+-lbs. Which makes me think...the M5 and E55 are tremendous supersedans in their own right, but the GS is the vitrually the same weight as say the M5, a whopping 25% less horses than the m5 (300hp vs. 400hp for the M5). Why then is the GS 430 only 0.8 or so seconds slower than the M5 to sixty? Does this mean that the GS can potentially match the M5 to sixty if compared fairly (with a hypothetical 6-speed manual)? Is it because of gearing or an engineering weakness on BMW's behalf? Not to discredit any M5 enthusiasts out there being that Im an M5 Lover myself...however, might the Lexus produced 4.3 be more potent than the 5.0L bimmer pound for pound(metaphorically speaking of course)?If so, Lexus could come up with a M5/AMG contender should it decide on producing a tweeked up version of its already capable GS430. All it would need to do outside of the drivetrain is redesign the suspension along the lines of its 3-series-esque IS300 and offer a manual 6-speed trans.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    ".. If so, Lexus could .."

    The conditional never makes for a good comparison. Fact is Lexus does not offer a car that is in the super-sedan category. The GS430 is nice, sure, but not in this league.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    The GS430 may be able to come closer in straightline speed, but throw a curve into the road, and it would fall way back. The M5 is about the whole package, not just the engine. It is the ultimate sports sedan on the planet, and no Lexus could come close~ A.R.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I just wonder if the next generation E55 is going to get the 476 hp engine that the new SL55 is going to have. Mercedes may get the chance to wear the crown again in this class. The GS430 would a get a mutt-hole stomped in it fooling with these cars here.

    M
  • I meant instead that if lexus has the ability to make the IS handle close to a 3-series (some argue better with its stock 0.91g's albeit a slightly rougher ride) they can potentially make a 0.9-somethin-G handling full-size (GS or some variant) in the next generation given their already capable 4.3 I was just wondering if anyone knows why it takes a relaively larger 5.0L displacement 400hp of an engine for the m5 to get 0-60 in 5 seconds when the GS being the same weight as the M5 and handicapped by 100hp, can obtain 60mph in only 0.7-8 seconds more, keep in mind that the GS is an AUTOMATIC as well! It doesn't add up. Judging from these factors alone, the M5 should be even faster with its manual tranny 6speed and additional 100HP AND additional 0.7L of displacement(torque)! Im not saying that the current GS is a supercar already in the league of the M5. Even if they were able to create numbers like the M5 or AMG's, Lex won't be as "connected" to the driver...however, i am confused by the M5's inability to make the GS430 "eat dust" in this respect outrunning it by a mere 0.7-8sec with such a horsepower, engine displacement, and manual tranny advantage. (3 factors in large favor of M5!)
    In conslusion, Im simply questioning the future integrity of BMW's gap of superiority in supercar engineering here, not whether or not Lexus offers this or that. Im just concerned with how BMW's performance figs are not all too superior in this light lexus being the more resoursceful, and therefore potentially capable in its own right. To Pablo: I was not comparing what Lex offered, I'm comparing their engineering prowess, b/c thats the whole point of comparing cars from diff. manufacturers, to answer "who are the better engineers?"
    The M5 still reigns supreme for this generation.
    Too bad Lexus is focusing on the wrong thing(plush luxury and opulence) b/c if they wanted right now, i bet they could cook up an M5 of their own! Lexus deserves a lot of respect as well
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    Your message is a just a concatenation of would's and could's, sorry. Lexus offers nothing in this category, and thus it's not worth talking all that much about when it comes to spuer-sedans. I have little doubt they "could" build something that "could" come closer to any of these cars, but until they do, it's noth worth wasting our time wondering.

    And the M5 and any of these cars here utterly dust the GS430 in a straight line. Close to a second is an eternity. The GS430 does not feel *stupidly* fast to me. It is fun and entertaining, but nowhere close these cars. Forget the numbers, cars are a lot about mere feeling, and there's just no comparison.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    Just driven a E55, GS430, 540i back to back, the AMG is significantly faster than the other two, no comparison.

    That 1 second to 60mph is a lot, think of it this way, a GS430 and 540i to 60mph in around 6 seconds, the E55/M5 does it in 5 seconds, the Porsche 996 Turbo and Ferrari 360 can do it at around 4.0 seconds.
  • dreuxdreux Posts: 2
    "I just wonder if the next generation E55 is going to get the 476 hp engine that the new SL55 is going to have. Mercedes may get the chance to wear the crown again in this class. The GS430 would a get a mutt-hole stomped in it fooling with these cars here."


    From what I have seen/heard on the net. The 2003 will be using a 450hp engine. It could very well be the same one as the SL55. It is getting someother stuff the SL55 has as well.


    Heres the most recent spy shots/info


    http://www.ecomcars.co.uk/newcarsecrets/spypictures/spetember_2001/mer_e_class/mer_e_class.html

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