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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Another comparison between the 2 cars in the May Car & Driver.

    As for driving a M5 everyday. I would not recommend it if you live in a place like New York City or any crowded area. If you have drive over hilly country roads, get the M5. If you are 25-34 and live in the city, maybe the M5 can work also.

    Just my opinion.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I kinda figured how those tests would come out, Mercedes just isn't going to deviate from the straight-line stability theme long enough or loosen the grip of their safety systems to match those other cars once the road starts to twist. What I am impressed with is Audi. I never thought I'd see the day C&D would rank an Audi over a BMW. Auto, Motor und Sport also picked the S4 over the M3, and get this the M3 came in last there...BEHIND the C32. GO AUDI! It's about time. And there isn't a new M3 for a while yet, so Audi may be able to really gain some points here.

    Does anyone else here get Auto, Motor und Sport? They had a comparo between the 760Li and the S600. The S600 won. BMW thought they were going to crush the 2001-2002 S600 (362hp) with their new 443hp 760Li, but Mercedes said...NOPE.

    So lets see, the victories:

    M5 - 1 (Automobile/CAR same writer and article)
    RS6 -1 (Car and Driver)
    E55 - 0
    S-Type R - 0

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    No, the E55 was in all the above tests. It was the new 2003 S600 (493hp) that won against the 760Li.

    M
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Having driven a 2001 S500 for nearly 3 years now, and the S600 recently, I have to add that no matter how fine and powerful they make these cars. They will never be as agile or fun to drive as a smaller car; say the E55.

    For me, the C32 is too small, the S500 a tad too big. I should have bought that 2001 E55 3 years ago instead of the S.

    Still waiting for a test drive on the '04 E55.

    Paul
  • aki86aki86 Posts: 15
    The E55 definitely is more fun to drive, but wouldnt the S600 be much more comfortable?
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Sure, the S600 will be more comfortable than the E55, but not by that much.

    For sheer comfort, the motorized Lazy Boy Lexus LS430 is probably the most luxurious moving bedroom around.

    But of course, boring to drive hard.

    Paul
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    merc1, maybe you can clear this up for me. At first I heard that MB was bringing over an S62 AMG. I read this is a comparison article from Automobile mag between the S600 and 760iL. Any truth to this? I wish they would bring the CL65 over instead. That car has no rival. 612 hp and an electronically limited 738 lbs-ft. The car actually makes 884 lbs-ft but obviously this would be too much for the tranny, wheels, halfshafts, shoot the whole freakin drivetrain. If i had my choice to own any car it would definately be a CL55 AMG. I finally got to sit in one at the New York auto show. Amazing. I must applaud Benz, they realize that raw displacement and force induction is the easiest, most reliable and cost efficient way to produce supercar numbers. I mean the CL65 has the same HP as Porsche's upcoming Carerra GT and mountains more torque. While BMW worries about handling Benz is all about heroic power, which is what I'm about. BMW will reach a dead end soon. The Valvetronic engine has serious limitations, mainly limited rpm. Because of the trick eccentric "3rd" camshaft over each bank, current rpm cannot exceed about 6200 rpm. I do know of a company that supercharges the 4.4L although how reliable it is anyones guess. Also, the can't increase the displacement of their M engines because as we all know increased CCs mean decreased revs. I'm skeptical of these V-10s being introduced. First Lambo, then Porsche now BMW. No one will be able to topple Benz off the horsepower pedestal except for maybe Cadillac. They've been experimenting with a V-12 for some time now. And we all know GM is not affraid of forced induction. Once their six speed transmission is introduced in the next model year or two, watch out Benz.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Cadillac's upcoming CTS-V has the current M5 spanked at the price point of an M3.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    chavis10,

    Did they have the 2004 E55 at the show? Is the interiors better than the stock E500 ?
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Yes, they had the E55. The interior is pretty much the same. The wood is also darker and there's more metallic trim. I think the E500 has a warmer look than the E55.
  • aki86aki86 Posts: 15
    I'd do almost anything to drive a CL65. How many cars need to have a torque limiter?
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    So how hot are the car babes at the show this year? Should I bring my 200MM tele or my 17-35MM wide angle zoom?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    After all this time you're back! Really good to hear from you.

    The S62 was probably a guess on Automobile's part about what the next level of displacement would be on the AMG V12 S-Class. From 2001-2002 Mercedes sold a S63 in Europe, it was a normally aspirated 6.3L V12 with 444hp. I'm sure they didn't know that the next AMG V12 would be called the "65", which is actually a 6.0L V12. I would bet on a S65 and even a SL65, but I doubt if they'll come here. In browsing through one of my many favorite MB sites, I've found out that the U.S market has missed some really off-the-chart AMG cars over the last few years. There was a SL73 in Europe. A true monster. Mercedes-AMG also has a V10 on the drawing board, for quite some time actually. Oh, and Mercedes is developing a 7 speed gearbox for introduction at Frankfurt this Sept. This is shaping up to be a tech/hp war unlike any ever seen before.

    M
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Yeah, I read about the S63 and SL73. The CL is the best looking car on the market as well as the classiest. I really wish Benz would bring over the CL65 if only to read about it in all the car mags. Or at least offer the 2 piece 19" rims and 8 piston brakes. I'm interested to see exactly how fast it really is. Car and Driver clocked the E55 0-60 in 4.3 so I can only imagine.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I pretty much think the CL is Mercedes' best car right now, and easily their best two door since I've been a fan (1986) of the brand. I would say the CL65 could possibly be the first production Mercedes to be able to reach 60 mph in under 4 seconds! Even the new SL doesn't make me want a Mercedes as much as the CL does. There is also a CL cabriolet coming for 2004. I hope it looks a good topless.

    M
  • tjm1198tjm1198 Posts: 10
    BMW announced that production ofthe M5 & the Z8 will be discontinued. I read the article from my Motor Trend email newsletter. Please post any response thoughts. I personally think it's horrible unless BMW releases something to rival the M5 which would be tough.

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/news/112_news030422_bmw/
  • uofmiamiuofmiami Posts: 19
    The M5 will be coming back next year. Production had to stopped due to the new 5 series body being produced, since the M5 is built in the same plant. Now next year the new M5 comes out with the new 5 series body and a V-10 engine. Look out!
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    You'd better get the current M5 while you can. I have a feeling the new version will be less of a drivers car. The electronic nannies that luxury manufactureres are introducing keep getting more and more intrusive. Not only that, I think the next 5 series looks horrible. The current M5 is still one of the best looking cars on the market. People seem to think the next 5 looks better than the 7. My only beef with the 7 is the taillights. They could have gotten away with the high butt if they new how to integrate the lights properly (especially that horizontal brakelight). At least the profile of the 7 is still impressive. The 5 has too much Z4 in it which is not good at all. The taillights look like they were stolen from the Subaru Impreza/WRX, really, check them out for yourselves. Anyway, what's up with this V-10 mess? Since when to people make V-10s? First Lambo and Porcshe and now BMW. I'm not impressed. They should have went the Benz route and bumped displacement to a real man figure and threw on turbos or a supercharger. Oh well. I can't afford one anyway so...
    I think BMW is going in the tank. I don't mean the company, I mean the cars. While Benzs seem to be looking better with every redesign (except for the new CLK, the old one looks better) BMW take two steps back.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    BMW has hit the pinnacle of design and performance so its hard for them to make changes without messing up their cars. They are going to add every gadget and gizmo possible to catch up with MB but they fail to realize that they are known for building the ultimate driving machine. Unless new technologies add to the driving experience they are not going to improve BMWs image. BMW is adding electric steering when everyone else has made that change at the expense of roadfeel. If everyone likes BMWs current sterring why change it to an electronic system? I thought they learned a lesson when they retuned the 3 series steering in '99.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I wouldn't worry about the next M5 too much, I highly doubt BMW will make it a soft, unconnected car. How it looks...well so far my reaction is yuck to the new 5.

    BTW, Auto, Motor und Sport just picked the E55 over the RS6 in a comparo tonight. The M5 was not present.

    M
  • aki86aki86 Posts: 15
    merc1,

    Heh...I guess I agree with you again. I don't think BMW will let up on performance, but many people will be turned away by the looks of the car.

    I agree with chavis10 too. Doesn't the back resemble a Subaru WRX?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I keep waiting on someone to wake me up from this BMW nightmare. Here is a company that is so hot right now with their 3 and 5-Series cars on the automotive alter of worship and yet they're hell bent on making them ugly. Part of me can't believe it. Chris Bangle is also a little bit of a liar too. He stated that BMWs past practice of "same sausage, different lengths" was no more yet the new 5 and 3 have same messed up look of the 7-Series. Here I was thinking he'd make each series look "different", yet they all have the same goofy front end and truly awful rear end. I can only imagine how the new 5 was going to look before all the shouting over the 7-Series started.

    M
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Posts: 241
    Bangle's 5-Series lights inspiration:

    -The New 5-Series:
    http://a298.g.akamai.net/7/298/5382/042103170607/www.imakenews.co- - - - - m/autospies/word_images/3653937_image002.jpg
    The Front - headlights

    http://a298.g.akamai.net/7/298/5382/042103170609/www.imakenews.co- - - - - m/autospies/word_images/6250288_image002.jpg
    The Rear - taillights

    -The "INSPIRATION":
    http://www.carsalez.co.uk/v-pics/c488.jpg
    taillights

    http://www.hoot-uk.com/content/regulars/view_from_a_peer/images/s- - - - - trathcarron_11072002_2.jpg
    taillights

    http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - VEHICLE/2002/Lexus/100003424/006445-E.jpg
    headlights

    http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2002/Lexus/100003424/006491-E.jpg
    taillights

    http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2002/Lexus/100003424/006632-E.jpg
    taillights

    http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2002/Lexus/100003424/006606-E.jpg
    headlights

    Borrowing from Peugeot and Lexus didn't quite seem to work out very well, but perhaps the car will look better in person. Though not totally the same elements of style, the lights do seem similar in general proportion and shape bewteen these cars. I think it also looks way too tall and narrow:

    http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/word_images/3218949_image002.j- - - - - pg

    http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/word_images/3218949_image008.j- - - - - pg

    I thought those rear shots were of the X3 when I first saw them (the first one), but its a 530d. What's with the Pontiac Grand Am grille? Is the huge antenna on roof supposed to go along with the "land shark" theme of the Z4? Some people see the "eyebrows" on this car and the 7 as looking like eyebrows, but am I the only one who sees them as "lazy-headlight"? The pillars seem less sleeked back as well.

    Maybe it'll grow on us and look really nice once we get used to it.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Say, any link to that article on E55 vs RS6?

    Can't get that magazine at my local B&N.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The new 3 series doesnt look as bad as the new 5 or the current 7. Apparently they decided to tone it down on the '06 3 series, a very wise move in my opinion. The new 5 is way off the mark and do not like the interior, it is to angular and dated looking. I was expecting something more dramatic and Audi-like. I was wrong.
  • aki86aki86 Posts: 15
    In my opinion, the new 5 looks HORRIBLE. I like the 7 a lot better than it, although I have some conflicting feelings towards the 7. I think they tried to combine styling cues from the 7 and mixed in ugly cues from other vehicles. I hate it (the styling at least)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Nope, I've tried to get articles before from Auto, Motor und Sport, but no luck. They don't have a website either, that I know of. You could check your local PBS station's listing to see if they carry it.

    M
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Saw a new CLK320 this morning in silver/tan. Man! Small is this thing. Too much like the C class coupes. As usual, see a fat guy driving it; with his head touching the roof.

    I always wonder why people like to wrap a car around their bodies; do they feel safer this way?
  • jborden1jborden1 Posts: 12
    I love the BMW M5, my friend has one and they just put a new exhaust system on it and it sounds unbelievable! But I too cannot understand the new 5-series, its just ugly. My dad was going to get a 540 but with this new design, he is going to keep his gs430 a little longer.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    I agree with you borden, the new 5 took a couple steps in the wrong direction. BMW is really losing it. The current 5 series to me is still one of the best looking cars on the market. What a shame.
    I don't like the look of the CLK either. It looks to soft to me.
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