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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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Comments

  • I love the M5, E55 and XJR. I have never owned any of them but I know they are very fast. Personally I would like to own a E55 for some reason but I know the M5 is better, so the M5. The E55 has a 5-Speed Automatic that dulls accelaration when the BMW M5 has a wonderful 6-Speed. The M5 is also much better for it's purpose. I would leave the XJR out of choice because it's not as fast as the E55 mor M5, is just as expensive, can't handle like the E55 or M5 and is less reliable than even the E55. Overall, the M5.
  • rumc3rumc3 Posts: 31
    Does anyone know if BMW's going to do anything with the M5, now that the competition is cranking out 400plus horsepower? I've looked around, but haven't seen anything about any HP increase.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    rumc3... Automotive press has been reporting for many months now that the next generation M5 will likely have an approximately 500 HP V-10. There has also been reporting on a turbocharged I6 for the new 5 Series; thinking 3.5L. I've seen this type reporting in a ton of automotive publications. For example, see p. 69 of latest issue of Road & Track (11/02). Small article on the brewing horsepower wars that were started by the M5 just a couple short years ago. Discusses the reported 500 HP V-10. BMW isn't going to sit back in a war it helped start!
  • shoesshoes Posts: 131
    I am on the list for a new E-55 but have some trepidation about getting it. Of the last five Mercedes I have owned- 2- 2001 E-55's, a 2002 CL500, a 2003 SL500 and a 2003 CLK500, I can safely say that the build quality left me cold on all of them except for the CLK (believe it or not) and this may just be the law of averages.

    My other concern is with the technical complexity which both BMW and Mercedes seemed infatuated with, at the expense of the driving experience. The new brakes on the SL500 and E500 are unplesant and difficult to modulate. This along with all the rattles was the reason I sold my SL500 after only two months (it also weighed too much and wasn't much fun to drive). The new reports on the airmatic suspension on the E500 don't sound promising either. We don't have to mention the I-drive disaster from the BMW.

    Is Mercedes trying to distract us with gadgets so we don't notice how much they charge and how poorly they build them???
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    What negative reports about the E500's Airmatic have you seen? I've seen nothing but priaise for the E500's suspension setup, even Car and Driver (BMW central) "liked" the car.

    M
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Why 2 2001 E55's ? One for the lover ?

    I also loved the CLK55, but I sometimes need to put a baby in the back, need 2 more doors..

    Did you get any schedule for the 2004 E55 from your dealership?
  • shoesshoes Posts: 131
    My dealer says this September, but I am hearing it may be sooner.
  • I recently purchased a 2001 XJR and was wondering if anyone could tell me their experiences with the car. I am also looking to replace the headlights with the Phillips superbright, anyone know where to get them. Thanks.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    I replaced my 2001 XJR (bought in 2000) with a Saab convertible, but it was not because anything was wrong with the XJR. It is a superb car.

    For me, it was just that Jaguar service, at least where I live, started to go on a downward spiral, and they did not seem to be as committed to keeping me happy as they were. They charged me over $2k for something that should have been done under warranty, lost my trust, and I can act very quickly when that is the case. I think Jaguar started changing a lot with the arrival of the S and X type - good for Jag profitability, not good for what I expect out of my particular car brand choice.

    The XJR would still be my top choice out of all these super-limos, each and every time out, though, based on its value proposition. The new XJ looks bublier and has lost me as a potential target customer, though - just like I'd never consider the E55 or M5, either. Get the old model - it is the last of the dying breed of true British cars: unique, quirky, and superb if you buy into what they stand for.

    I thought owning the XJR in CA was like owning a racehorse and having it pull the proverbial plough, though. Fun in a thoroughly inpractical way, but with Jag service milking me as a profit center within 18 months of buying a $70k car, no thanks, it gets too inpractical, and I guess I am not passionate enough about a 4-door sedan to go through that. The Saab, a Rolls Convertible and a motorcycle in my garage attest to my utter commitment to inpracticality, but Jag rubbed it in my face one time too many.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    How did they manage to charge a warranty item??
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    *All* the tires were munched up on the extreme edge of the inside within 6,000 miles. I always check my tires, but in this case the tires were used up on a strip so narrow that it was impossible to see. I noticed when a tire blew up while driving. And no - I have not once smoked the tires turning off traction control.

    It was a blatant case of misalignment of the ssupension setting or something in the chassis. I did get about the first 2001 model year...

    But Jaguar service stated it's normal for tires to get misaligned and use unevenly (in the *identical* spot on *all* tires?), and that is not covered my warranty. Tire replacement and alignment: $2,500 or so.

    That was Jaguar brand loyalty for me: I have spent well over $120,000 on their cars over the last 7 years, and that's what I got.

    I wrote two letters, never received a reply. Since the arrival of S and X types, Jaguar simply is not the same brand, at least not in my opinion. The personalized service is gone.

    In the future, I shall follow the path of smaller brands with a reputation for caring.

    I still think Jaguars fantastic cars, but cars are not important enough to me to put up with such disappointing buying experiences. If you get me once, shame on you - get me twice, shame on me. Won't come to that...
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Any news on the E55 yet?

    Thanks,

    Paul
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I think the title of this thread should include the S-Type R and RS6, and drop the XJR. The XJR competes with the S8, S55 etc.

    Auto, Motor und Sport just did a comparo between the M5 and the RS6. Their conclusion: The M5 still is THE car in this segment.

    Automobile Magazine (Dec issue) has a comparo between the S-Type R, RS6, E55 and M5. Their conclusion: The M5 is still king.

    Both of these comparos are very telling. The M5 gets it's motor handed to it by the RS6. I mean 0-60 in 4.3secs is true sports car territory. Curiously the E55 in Automobile's comparo didn't perform up to spec. The S-Type R was just too soft to compete in the hardcore realm of the three German sedans. Check the 0-100 times for the S-Type R and the E55. The E55 does the job in less than HALF the time of the Jaguar!!

    The M5 wins it for them based in it's body control, steering precision and overall balance. Automobile states that the M5 weighs 250lbs less than the E55, yet on the data page they show the E55 weighing only 26lbs more than the M5?? They also knocked the E55 for fuel economy, but all the other cars got like 1-2 MPG more. Silly to be even talking about such a thing for cars of this caliber. They all drink gas!

    Naturally I like all these, but my ranking would have been: E55/RS6 (tied) M5 and then the S-Type R. Love the RS6 and E55, "like" the M5 and S-Type R.

    If the M5 is truly this good (waiting to see more comparos) to triumph over brand new competitors, I'm even more impressed with BMW......didn't think that was possible.

    I'm awaiting the all mighty Car and Driver to do this comparo. The best one of the U.S. mags will most likely be Road and Track.

    paulchiu,

    Car and Driver says the E55 is due in May.

    M
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Everyone should read it. Quite enjoyable. Lots of good pictures and data. Interesting and readable text.

    One thing especially interested me. Automobile mentions how important the M5's lower weight is regarding the M5's advantage in steering, handling, and braking. Text talks about the M5 weighing 250 pounds less than E55 and 350 pounds less than RS6. But their data sheet lists the M5 at 4,023 pounds, E55 at 4,046 pounds, and RS6 at 4,057 pounds. So I'm wondering if the M5 actually weighs a lot less. Thinking it should over the AWD RS6.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah, they need to explain that one.

    Is it me or is Automobile getting more and more like CAR and EVO? Not on the same scale or depth, but in their comparisons and the level of cars they're comparing. I see that Georg Kacher writes for both CAR and Automobile. Very good stuff.

    M
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Guys,

    Did Auto Mag test the upcoming E55 and M5 or the current versions?

    Paul
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The new E55 (469hp) and the current M5. The next M5 is not due until 2005 at the earliest.

    M
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Wow! That's saying a lot about the 394hp M5, as it is 4 year old technology versus the new razzle dazzle E class!

    Auto hasn't hit my newstands yet. Sucks!

    As I said before, my lease runs out in Sept 2003, so I had my eyes on the new E55. But if Auto mag says that the older M5 is better, my decision might just get a little easier.

    Paul
  • paulchiupaulchiu Posts: 378
    Just got my Car & Driver and the suggested is $88K. This puts the E55 out of my budget. Man! From 72K to 88K. What are they thinking!

    Paul
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah that does say a lot. I've already accepted that nobody is going to top the M5 without a manual. Mercedes, Audi and Jaguar simply aren't going to do it. The press will stand on that "feeling" thing and thats ok to. I like how the E55 and RS6 outrun the M5 though. That RS6 is unbelievably fast.

    M
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