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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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  • poormanpoorman Posts: 1
    Hi folks, first post. I am the prototypical wants more car than he can really afford guy. I'm currently in a Mitsu Eclipse Turbo with 205k on it. I'm more than likely purchasing something in June and there are many cars I'm looking at from the 05 GTO to the Legacy GT. One I'm looking at is my bosses 02 Jag XJR. He is a total neatnik and the car is immaculate. It has about 34k on it and I can probably get it (If I kick butt in sales...) for around 28k, which I believe is a pretty good deal.

    I've heard that Jags are very expensive to maintain and I've even heard that you can't just go to Jiffy Lube and get a standard oil change, that you have to have an OEM filter etc. I'd hate to end up with a 500+ dollar a month car payment and then end up with super high maintenance costs. I know the gas mileage isn't the greatest, but it's hard to get a sedan of that size under 6 sec. 0-60 without using a little gas! Please fill me in on whatever you can about owning and maintaining an XJR. Thanks in advance!
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    They don't have the potential timing chain tensioner problems of the 98-00 XJ8s. Check the XJR out at a very good independent Jaguar repair shop if you can. Check the seat rails as they can become loose over time and make the seat wooble.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    For what it is worth, I got rid of my XJR after only a year and a half. Great car if you don't care abiut being held accountable for $4k/yr in maintenance even during the warranty period. I did the math, and got a beater plus a Rolls Corniche that -despite it's reputation- it's only costing me an $1.5k/yr to maintain, with a higher uniqueness factor and far better interior quality than my '01 XJR... As fun a car as it was, I think getting rid of it was a good decision. Your motivations may be utterly different.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A reply just for you. Obviously a lot of folks feel like you do about the new M5 not having a row-it-yourself manual transmission. According to the May issue of Car and Driver BMW is going to do the right thing and offer a true blue manual on the U.S. market sometime after the SMG version goes on sale. You win!!!!!

    M
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    but, you still have to deal with the interior and exterior.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Actually, I didn't win. After I first heard that the M5 would only have an SMG, I cancelled my order. Now since they made that announcement, I would be #6 at a dealership that will likely only get 2-3 per year. And that's sneaking me in the middle of the list. The larger dealerships in DC have a proportionally long wait.

    I guess if I really have $90k+ burning a hole in my pocket, I can go for a new 911 S convertible. That wait is only about 9-12 months. Barring any growth spurts, my two daughters might even still be able to fit in the back seat by the time I get one.

    P.S. I wonder if BMW executives actaully saw all of my ranting in Edmund's about "true" manual transmissions? Probably wishful thinking, but it is nice they responded to consumer feedback. If GM did a little more of that, they wouldn't be giving away their stock.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Aww shux no going back now huh? Nothing wrong with a 997 Cabrio either.

    I doubt if any BMW execs read this board, but I'm sure others like you wrote/called/emailed BMW because the article I saw stated that this decision was made based on U.S. market BMW customers.

    GM is too big to react in such a way as BMW. GM is just too plain larger imo, but thats for another board.

    M
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,017
    habitat1... I attribute the change directly to your rantings... Good job!!

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    kyfdx,

    Thanks for the credit, as undeserved as it is. I have a feeling a lot of previous BMW owners and dealers made their opinions known. The sales manager at my hometown dealer wrote a pretty scathing letter questioning why the company would alienate virtually all of the past M5 owners who had no choice but a "real" manual transmission. He has been with BMW for over 20 years and owns an original M1, so my suspicion is that his "rantings" were given more weight than mine.

    merc1,

    I'll still shop around for the M5 to see if anyone has a shorter wait. But I must admit that once I consider the idea of pulling a $90k+ trigger, the 997 S Convertible has its appeal. Not to mention that the upcoming 550i 6-speed will come within 40 horsepower of the last M5 and be immediately available for ED in about 3 months.
  • androidandroid Posts: 4
    Finally got it all done. My little 4 door is a rocket. Went to the track for a little Bracket racing. After figuring out best way to launch this thing I managed a 11.87 128mph quatermile, much to the dismay of the viper that was next to me. Going to get a front spoiler to lessen the lift on the front end then its done.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
  • I really hate 2004 and 2005 body style of the jaguar XJ8. I would like for Ford to return it to it original european style. Ford are you listening.
    If anybody shares my view please let me know. :mad: :( :cry: :confuse: :sick:
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    really hate 2004 and 2005 body style of the jaguar XJ8.

    Do you know that the new aluminum XJ actually has styling cues from the first generation XJ?

    If any new luxury sedan is vulgar, it would be the new BMW M5 with its side vents, Kia Rio taillights, and what not.
  • Merc,
    When will this come out in the USA? Should I get a 2006 E55 or wait??
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    This is just my personal opinion, but the horsepower war that AMG seems to single-handedly being escalating in sedans is NUTS. I drove a 2005 E55 while my Acura was in for service a few weeks ago and if anyone needs more power than that, they really need to find out what is wrong with their self esteem.

    What is not impressive is AMG's inability to do anything much other than goose their engines to 600+ horsepower. The SLK55 I drove at the same time was a sloppy excuse for a sports car compared to the less expensive, lower horsepower Boxster S. Compared to the new 911, it is even more of a joke. An automatic only transmission that shifts in manual mode like it's got maple syrup in the gear box??

    Go ahead and get 700 hp in your sedan if you want to, but that one dimensional driving experience would get very old for me after about 3 stoplights. Personally, I'd suggest a E320CDI and a Boxster S on the side.

    Again, just my opinion. ;)
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    I got this link from AlSi at Superhonda.com, and it is a pitty that the new M5 is "annoying and fragile."

    http://members.roadfly.com/jason2/TopGearE60M5.wmv

    Have fun.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Who really cares what a review says. :confuse Have you read other reviews?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,017
    Actually, I've seen that Top Gear video that discusses the M5..

    The host spends about ten minutes trashing everything about it.... but, but, but.. then he pushes the button, that unleashes the extra 100 horses...

    And, in the end, he proclaims it the greatest car ever!! (I might be paraphrasing a little bit... ;) ). It is very humorous... typical dry British wit.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    Exactly what the other poster said about the review. Jeremy Clarkson, the topgear host always starts out in one direction and does 180 to make a point. Sometimes he will spend too much time doing that than making actual point, so I'd not judge the car based on his approach.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    A piece of info that I found very troubling is at end of the show when Jeremy mentioned that when he drove the car on the track all the warning lights of DSC and other safety features came up flashing, and the car had to be towed after "Stick" drove around the track for the official time.

    I mean you spend $90k+ for a car that is meant to be driven like a race car, yet in the back of your mind, you have this disturbing thought of what if the car decides to quit on me under "normal" driving condition at nowhere, then how am I going to get home as if it happened before.

    All the reviews have been focused on the performance of the car, and the new 2006 M5 is still the King of the Sedan, and no one is saying otherwise. Somehow, I still feel like the quality should be better and the iDrive should be more Acura RL like.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You cannot buy the car, it probably is a pre-production model that got abused. Every car that gets slammed around like this, whether it be American, German or Japanese will have issues.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,017
    Not only that... read a few C&D car reviews... "Oh yeah, we had to replace a clutch at 15K miles, due to our 0-60 testing runs.."

    "We didn't get the full lap numbers, because on the second run, the brakes overheated and gave out."

    Basically, no street car comes from the factory, with the capability to handle the abuse that car reviewers give it...

    Ask anyone who tracks their car... Do they take them out totally stock? Not likely...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • proeproe Posts: 157
    Basically, no street car comes from the factory, with the capability to handle the abuse that car reviewers give it...

    Porsche 911 4S comes in mind from the long term test in May 2005 issue of C&D, and they mentioned that they did not have any problem of the clutch during the long term test after two clutch-slipping acceleration -test sessions.

    Needless for me to remind you that BMW has gone though all of the abuses that could possibly happen, so it is all covered. It is a standard practice.

    Ask anyone who tracks their car... Do they take them out totally stock? Not likely...

    I have to agree with you if we are talking about Acura RSX or Honda Civic, but we are talking BMW M5, which is designed to be able to challenge Porsche 911. Tell me what are the modifications you need in order for M5 to run on the tracks?
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    You cannot buy the car, it probably is a pre-production model that got abused. Every car that gets slammed around like this, whether it be American, German or Japanese will have issues.

    That scares me even more, meaning BMW is going to sell a product that is not going to be very reliable at all. :surprise:
    The fact is people who buy M5 will not drive it like Accord, and they will abuse the car not once but every opportunity it presents.
    Sorry, I forgot that they don't really care because they have money to buy another one if this one breaks down. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "That scares me even more, meaning BMW is going to sell a product that is not going to be very reliable at all. :surprise: "

    LOL. And they'll sell every one of them, but I don't understand what you're talking about in general.

    Through the years, I remember reading in the rags pre-production cars even high-end Porsches that have been used in this fashion have had issues. Even if this conversation was about a production car I would't be worried. The cars used in these tests gets abused. No car in the world is meant to take constant jack rabbit starts.

    You have this incorrect. Every Porsche is meant to tracked first and used on the street second (maybe with the exception of the Boxster). Most BMWs are very capable on the track, but they are street cars. The 5 series is a street vehicle. The M5 is a street vehicle on steriods. Whatever capabilities BMW endowed it with is for bragging rights on the street only.

    So I guess you're not going to be getting the new M5. :wink
  • awaxawax Posts: 8
    I am in the Air Force and stationed overseas. I can order a 2006 M5 through BMWs military sales for delivery at any dealer in the US. I was quoted $83,000 for the 2006 M5 with every option available delivered in Jan/Feb 2006.

    Since I can't visit dealerships in the US, I am having trouble determining if this is a fair deal. I have tried to phone a few dealerships. As expected, they are very cautious with telephone call inquiries.

    Does anyone have any feedback for me? Good price? Are M5s expected to be a hot seller for dealerships? Limited supply?

    My other option is to go with a 2006 550i for $63,000.

    Thanks for the help!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Are M5s expected to be a hot seller for dealerships? Limited supply? "

    It's hard to tell whether the M5 will be a hot seller or not. My impression, only based on the musings of the rags, is it will be a hot seller. Unless you really need a 500hp under the bonnet, the 550 is the best luxury drivers sedan made.
  • Have a seller with an '02 E55 with, get this, 4700 miles. I had to verify with him three times on the mileage. Last service gave full verification. He is looking at the high 30's, which I believe is a decent figure. How is the reliability on these. Obviously, the press has been hammering MB and other German auto makers. I currently own an '04 ES330 with which I am totally disappointed (tranny) and will never buy that brand again. Anybody out there have good, bad or indifferent stories to tell on the service on this machine. Thanks, Kippcar.
  • I saw a new XJR today with the optional Sepang 20" wheels. Fantastic appearance, great performance, tasteful looking, etc. For someone who is looking at a 7 Series or, god forbid, an S Class, the XJR should be on your short list. I think the relative exclusitivity and more bespoke nature of the Jag is a big plus (every 50 year old dentist in the Northeast has either a BMW or a MB, so much so that it is a cliche).
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