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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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  • cdrcdr Posts: 2
    Sure am. I'm on the list for the new M5. I currently have a 2001 M5 and love it. Great ride, <mostly> unpretentious looks and insanely fast. I'm planning on doing European delivery on the new M5, even though it means I'm probably going to have to wait a few extra months before I can pick mine up, but I really want to drive it for just a couple of weeks on the roads it was designed to be driven on.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    These Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s make all the difference, car handles significantly better. Nicer ride as well, unbelievable.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well do stick around and tell us all about your new M5 when you get it. The new M5 promises to probably be the best sports sedan ever imagined. I've seen it on Auto, Motor und Sport TV and I have to say it looked like one those video games the way it takes to a twisty road with that V10 soundtrack in the background. Idrive and styling concerns I'm sure will be forgiven upon the first testdrive for many.

     

    M
  • cdrcdr Posts: 2
    thanks, I'll definitely post a message to let you know what I think.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    The new Jaguar XJR doesn't really compete with the E55 AMG and the BMW M5. The closest car to the aluminum XJR is the Maserati Quattroporte. It will be interesting to see how the 2006 Cadillac STS-V fares against the XJR.

    Information and pictures on the 06 STS-V:

    http://media.gm.com/events/autoshows/05naias/brands/cadillac/stsv- %20overview.html

    http://www.cadillac.com/under5/under5.html

    from motorsportscenter.com

    "The supercharged Northstar V8: 4.4 liters, 440 hp, 430 lb-ft of torque - 90% of which is available from 2200 to 6000rpm, and VVT. This supercharger is worthy of special note - engineers were happy to tell us that this blower operates with some 30% less drag than the Ford GT's supercharger, and the intercooler has 50 cooling fins per inch length of the pipeline."
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    Pictures, videos, and more of the 05 XJ

    http://www.keycast.com/keycast/jaguar/xj/USNewXJ_LWB/default.asp?- ref=noref&detect=1&flashversion=7&jsenabled=1

    Information on Jaguar's 4.0 V-8:

    http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/v8_performance.html

    The new aluminum XJ8 (from 2004 on) has a 4.2 V-8 with a ZF 6 speed automatic transmission. It pollutes less, makes more power, and is more efficient than the 4.0 V-8.

    Here is a picture of the new XJ's aluminum chassis:

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/images/04jagxjbody.jpg

    The new XJ's chassis is 40 per cent lighter than that of the equivalent steel body and 60 per cent stiffer than its predecessor. The next XK8 will use the new XJ's aluminum chassis.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    I would take these two sedans over a new M5:

    Holden HSV sedan video:

    http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vy2/video/premiere.wmv

    The above Holden HSV sedan (owned by GM...HSV is Holden's performance line) uses a Corvette's LS1. They now use the LS2. Holden races their sedan in the Australian V8 Supercar series.

    Here is a link to Holden HSV:

    http://www.hsv.com.au/index_new.html

    Ford Falcon XR8 video:

    http://www.strategicqld.com.au/files/burnbabyburn.mpg

    The above car is made by Ford of Australa. Ford of Australia has a performance line, FPV. Here is a link to Ford FPV:

    http://fpv.com.au/
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    The new M5's grille looks like a Pontiac's grille.

    The rear taillights look like a 2001 Kia Rio's taillights.

    Why does the new 5 series have a nasty flat dash?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    This class is quickly splitting into smaller classes and getting more interesting every year.

    The XJR has already been beaten by the E55 and the Quattroporte in a C&D comparo.

    The M5 I predict will simply walk away with this segment. I mean nothing can really touch it in power and dynamics equally.

    The E55 and new CLS55 will continue to play second fiddle to the M5 in the car mags.

    The STS-V while nice isn't going to top any of the German cars, especially the M5, but it may beat a Jaguar here or there. With 440hp its a little light on power for this class. Imagine a car with 440hp being short on hp for its class! What a era we're in for hp. It will however provide the classic GM formula, lesser car for less money. I actually like the STS-V a little, I like the idea of a supercharged Northstar. Now GM needs to make this new 6-speed auto standard in all STS variants.

    Jaguar knew the S-Type R couldn't compete with the E55 or the old M5 so they dropped the price down to E500/545i levels where it appears to be much more competitive. I still can't help but think that a 545i Sport with the 6-Speed manual is almost as fast as the 400hp S-Type R, but I haven't seen any numbers for a manual trans 545i. It is just a matter of time before the 545i becomes the 550i with a 360hp wallop.

    What I'd like to see is the battle of the sultry sedans: XJR, Quattroporte and CLS55 AMG.

    M
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    It is too bad that the M5 isn't backed by the factory in racing like the Cadillac CTS-V, Holden HSV sedans, and Ford (of Australia) FPV sedans.

    The M5 will just be a rich man's Subaru WRX. It has lost all of the style and class of the old M5s.

    The Jaguar XJR is around the size of a BMW 7 series. The XJR obviously competes more with the big luxury sedans than with the mid-size sedans.

    These two pictures sum up the new BMW 5 series:

    http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/2915-36-1.jpg

    http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/2915-36-2.jpg
  • poormanpoorman Posts: 1
    Hi folks, first post. I am the prototypical wants more car than he can really afford guy. I'm currently in a Mitsu Eclipse Turbo with 205k on it. I'm more than likely purchasing something in June and there are many cars I'm looking at from the 05 GTO to the Legacy GT. One I'm looking at is my bosses 02 Jag XJR. He is a total neatnik and the car is immaculate. It has about 34k on it and I can probably get it (If I kick butt in sales...) for around 28k, which I believe is a pretty good deal.

    I've heard that Jags are very expensive to maintain and I've even heard that you can't just go to Jiffy Lube and get a standard oil change, that you have to have an OEM filter etc. I'd hate to end up with a 500+ dollar a month car payment and then end up with super high maintenance costs. I know the gas mileage isn't the greatest, but it's hard to get a sedan of that size under 6 sec. 0-60 without using a little gas! Please fill me in on whatever you can about owning and maintaining an XJR. Thanks in advance!
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    They don't have the potential timing chain tensioner problems of the 98-00 XJ8s. Check the XJR out at a very good independent Jaguar repair shop if you can. Check the seat rails as they can become loose over time and make the seat wooble.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    For what it is worth, I got rid of my XJR after only a year and a half. Great car if you don't care abiut being held accountable for $4k/yr in maintenance even during the warranty period. I did the math, and got a beater plus a Rolls Corniche that -despite it's reputation- it's only costing me an $1.5k/yr to maintain, with a higher uniqueness factor and far better interior quality than my '01 XJR... As fun a car as it was, I think getting rid of it was a good decision. Your motivations may be utterly different.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A reply just for you. Obviously a lot of folks feel like you do about the new M5 not having a row-it-yourself manual transmission. According to the May issue of Car and Driver BMW is going to do the right thing and offer a true blue manual on the U.S. market sometime after the SMG version goes on sale. You win!!!!!

    M
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    but, you still have to deal with the interior and exterior.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Actually, I didn't win. After I first heard that the M5 would only have an SMG, I cancelled my order. Now since they made that announcement, I would be #6 at a dealership that will likely only get 2-3 per year. And that's sneaking me in the middle of the list. The larger dealerships in DC have a proportionally long wait.

    I guess if I really have $90k+ burning a hole in my pocket, I can go for a new 911 S convertible. That wait is only about 9-12 months. Barring any growth spurts, my two daughters might even still be able to fit in the back seat by the time I get one.

    P.S. I wonder if BMW executives actaully saw all of my ranting in Edmund's about "true" manual transmissions? Probably wishful thinking, but it is nice they responded to consumer feedback. If GM did a little more of that, they wouldn't be giving away their stock.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Aww shux no going back now huh? Nothing wrong with a 997 Cabrio either.

    I doubt if any BMW execs read this board, but I'm sure others like you wrote/called/emailed BMW because the article I saw stated that this decision was made based on U.S. market BMW customers.

    GM is too big to react in such a way as BMW. GM is just too plain larger imo, but thats for another board.

    M
  • kyfdx%40Edmundskyfdx%40Edmunds Posts: 25,851
    habitat1... I attribute the change directly to your rantings... Good job!!

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    kyfdx,

    Thanks for the credit, as undeserved as it is. I have a feeling a lot of previous BMW owners and dealers made their opinions known. The sales manager at my hometown dealer wrote a pretty scathing letter questioning why the company would alienate virtually all of the past M5 owners who had no choice but a "real" manual transmission. He has been with BMW for over 20 years and owns an original M1, so my suspicion is that his "rantings" were given more weight than mine.

    merc1,

    I'll still shop around for the M5 to see if anyone has a shorter wait. But I must admit that once I consider the idea of pulling a $90k+ trigger, the 997 S Convertible has its appeal. Not to mention that the upcoming 550i 6-speed will come within 40 horsepower of the last M5 and be immediately available for ED in about 3 months.
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