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Saturn S-Series

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Comments

  • mollyvanmollyvan Posts: 3
    I meant I am NOW very grateful for their assistance. I'm done writing now!
  • saturnboysaturnboy Posts: 89
    As you said, ""mechanical things are not perfect, just like
    humans," is ludicrous, and exactly the kind of
    sensless argument that I would expect from my local
    Saturn dealers. "
    Apparently you were proved wrong , and molly said so her self by talking about her wonderfull service visit, she seems to have been treated with respect, and this is not a surprise from a Saturn dealer.
    As for the loss of power issue, you say tomato, I say tomata. It's a senseless arguement. Sounds like your not happy with your Saturn experience by your comments, why don't you check out a new Toyota at www.toyota.com
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    I was proved wrong? By what? My point was that you continually make posts with snide, sarcastic comments which mock the concerns/problems of anyone who does not share your fanatical enthusiasm for Saturn. The fact that you now sing the praises of Molly after previously making a snide remark like "Good luck with your ? (Problem?)" makes my point more eloquently than I ever could. And since you have taken to putting words in Molly's mouth (your comment: "you were proved wrong and Molly said so herself..") you should also take note that Molly seems to feel that pulling out into traffic in a car of that condition is unsafe. I have no desire to "check out a Toyota" thank you. And luckyI will not be having a bad Saturn experience either. I did recently purchase a new vehicle but thanks, in part, to reading the comments on this list and many like it, I chose not to buy a Saturn.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Loss of power in a car is a serious problem. I know this from experience. One of my cars, a Mitsubishi Diamante, was having a terrible sputtering problem. It only occured at moderate-full prods of the accelerator and the problem was very intermittent. The lack of acceleration got me into trouble on numerous occassions. I would pull out with a reasonable distance between me and the next car, but when I asked the car to get up to traffic speed, it just misfired and took forever to accelerate. By this time, the next car was on my tail end having to slam on brakes. If that car was not paying attention, I could get hit because I could not even get out of the way. In heavy traffic trying to cross a 2 lane road, I pulled out in a wide enough opening needing quick response from my car. It nearly died halfway across the first lane, causing the oncoming car to slam on its brakes to avoid broadsiding me. This is why loss of power is extremely dangerous, and I am sure this is what Mollyvan meant by her car being unsafe. Thankfully, the problem has been addressed in my car. All it needed was a new distributor cap. Amazing that darn plastic cap can cause so many problems.

    Saturnboy, I think you need to get off your high horse about the Saturn's government rating. I judge a car by its all-around crash performance and the Saturn doesn't quite have it. Sure, if you hit a wall head-on at 30 mph, the Saturn is one of the safest small cars to be in. But how common is that? Not very common at all. In the side-impact, the 99 SLs got only an average 3 star rating. Nothing to write home about. That equals the rating given to the Honda Civic, but is lower then the 4 stars given to the similar sized VW Jetta. In fact, the VW Jetta is now the safest all-around performer out of all the small cars. It received 5 stars for the head-on impact, just like the Saturn. And lets not forget the 40 mph offset-impact, a very important test of the strength of a cars structure and also a relatively common type of accident. The Saturn was rated acceptable in this test, but was rated below the VW Beetle, VW Jetta, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra, and Ford Escort (in descending order). Look at the pictures yourself and tell me the Saturn did not look disturbing. The steering wheel was shoved back rather close to the dummy's face and the front plastic quarter panel broke in half and flew off the car. Overall, the Saturn is not as safe as you make it out to be. You cannot judge a car's performance on one crash test alone.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Yeah, this is a bad thing, losing power on the road. It happened to me in my old tercel ( camshaft came loose). One reason I like my saturn very much is that in 90K miles it's never had a problem and certianly never died out. If I thought that saturn had changed and this was no longer the expectation, I would change cars! I hope the poster's car that was dying out get s fixed correctly, though my confidence would be shaken ( not stirred ).

    As far as crash safety, (lngtongue18) I do think the saturn s-series is still #1 in small cars. Full frontal impacts do comprise 1/2 of the crashes according to the NHTSA and the saturn havs the lowest death and injury rate of and compact economy car (a4 did better, but it's not economy).

    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ddr/ddr_4dr.htm

    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm

    I really do think results from real-life crashes are the best thing to look at, really; all tests are contrived to show one aspect in the real world, many types of accidents occur, and thest numbers show the results of them. When i got my sl2 in '96 it was way way ahead of the pack (IMO).

    dave
  • norbert444norbert444 Posts: 195
    saturnboy, I just love your comments, however blindingly biased they are... do not go away as before, you make this forum fun to read! That doesn't mean, of course, that you will not be bashed since you are, after all, an awfully wonderful target...

    And this is for everybody in the know:
    I have a '95 SL2, which started knocking recently, and it is getting worse by the week.
    First, it only did it when cold and uphill. Now, it does it during acceleration, or at some other times when an autoshift occurs.

    I looked in the automotive repair book. It talks about gasoline as the first suspect. I should think that is not the culprit since I have been pumping at COSTCO for about a year.

    Then it mentions fuel filter, some ECM or similar module and the EGR valve. I have not talked to any mechanic yet.

    Any ideas as to what to look for? Or plausible causes of this?
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Is usually caused by excessive carbon in the cyls. That would make sense if it started gradually and increased over time--the carbon built up. Possible remedies:

    1) Fuel system cleaner. Techron is good. Marvel mystery oil has a rep but i don't know if it's for real.
    2) Change plugs
    3) Premium gas

    The last being a last resort. Maybe have the dealer try if the first 2 fail. I often buy gas at chevron because they have techron already in the gas, but i'm not sure offhand how much.

    I'm a costcoite too! They have a lot of nice gourmet food for regular food prices--i just wish they took more credit cards.

    Saturnboy, just don't take everything so personally. If someone doesn't like your favorite line of cars, well, no biggie. It doesn't really affect you.

    dave
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I have never seen someone act so childish about a bunch of postings as Saturnboy does. I think he can't handle the truth that Saturn isn't the grandest car in everyone's eyes, LOL. I mean I absolutely LOVE VW and stand behind them 200%, but I don't have a hissy fit and vow to leave the forum if someone doesn't like them. I just respond with my experiences and real hard-core facts from magazines and websites. All his pointless and heavily biased comments stemmed mostly from experience with a car that has only 17,000 miles on it. Not nearly enough to establish that the car is so great, other then service, which is the only thing he had to talk about in the first place. I'm so sick of hearing him rant on and on about the service (it makes him sound like a spokesman for Saturn). That doesn't mean much to me as I never see the dealer unless I am having serious warranty issues. Otherwise, I do my own maintenance. My mom hasn't seen the Honda dealer in at least 5 years (last time was the 30,000 mile checkup, she now has 180,000)because she has had no reason to, so how would the best selling point of Saturn mean much to her? It wouldn't make a difference in her case, so as far as I am concerned, good dealer sevice should not be the biggest bragging point of a car, as Saturnboy makes it out to be. From my experiences, Saturns have cheap and poorly put together interiors that rattle, a poor shifting manual tranny, and uncomfortable front and rear seats that sit too low in the car. I think those areas is what Saturn should concentrate on in the future if they want to stay competitive and be recognized for more then just their great service.
  • norbert444norbert444 Posts: 195
    Thank you, Dave!!

    You might have pointed out the real reason for knocking indeed. I will follow your advice and get some Techron.

    And I think you also put your finger on the reason for carbon buildup. About a year (~7000 miles) ago, I replaced spark plugs. While doing that, I discovered a couple of spark plug wells to be full of oil = blown head gasket. I replaced that with an OEM gasket which is composed of a perimeter gasket plus four small round gaskets, one around each spark plug well. I did not place one of the four correctly and it leaked oil into the well - had to fix it a little later. I suspect the gasket might be the culprit behind the knocking, too. Will check gasket leaks over the weekend, too. (If it can be done easily, I am not sure about that.)

    saturnboy, you will love your new LS1. It is a great looking car, good choice. Is there an LS1 forum on edmunds or elsewhere?
  • travelertraveler Posts: 67
    It is caused by the fuel mixture detonating instead of burning and occurs when the mixture is ingited before it should be by the plug Some causes are excessive carbon buildup, wrong heat range spark plugs (still hot and preignite the fuel) or in other words, something inside the combustion chamber ingiting the fuel before the plugs. Have the mixture checked as a rich mixture leads to carbon buildup. One way to get rid of the carbon, take it out on a 65 mph road and run it in the next lower gear for a few miles or as suggested use a product designed to do it as you drive the car 'normally'.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    I love it.
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    I second that!
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    Norbert444, last year I took my Olds in for a routine injector cleaning and they performed a service which also flushed the carbon from the motor. I actually had very little carbon build-up and was not having a problem with the car, but afterwards the difference in power was incredible. The whole service only took about 10 minutes and you could actually see the carbon blowing out or the tailpipe as they did it. I had it done at a Penske garage and the entire service (injectors and carbon flush) only cost about $60.00. I would highly recommend it.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Never got such a warm response to my posts before. It made me smile knowing that my point was heard by at least someone :) Thanks for the kind remarks
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    Men are from Mars.

    Women are from VENUS, not Saturn.

    I doubt Saturnboy is a female. Not too many women have a sort of passion about any one particular brand of cars like he does.
    But Saturnboy, change your name to Saturnman. Better to be a man than a boy.:()

    And yes, I'm stereotyping. Let the flame wars begin.
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    I never would've thunk it, but Satrunboy has turned up on the Ford Ranger list! Says he is thinking of trading his Saturn for a Ranger. I'm speechless
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    you think in life you have things you can count on to always be the same and BAM, something like this happens.......

    I have nothing else to believe in now...
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    From saturn phanatic to ford truck buyer? Who woulda thunk it?
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Hey everybody,
    Look at the crap Saturnboy just pulled with me. He emailed me this message dated the 24th.

    "It's been a pleasure listening to you also, I would like to know who made you the Saturn expert? Or shall I say the king of bashing Saturn. You will never draw customers away from Saturn, no matter how important you think you sound, nor how many times you say how horrible you think Saturn is. Their success will continue regardless of little pipps like yourself. Have a nice
    Saturn free life, oh, I blocked your email address, don't call me, I'll call
    you."

    Now I know we are dealing with a child. I think that is a bunch of crap to email me this sort of message. But two can play this game :) Anyone who would love to send Saturnboy (aka Steven VanBuren) an email telling him how ridiculous he sounds, please let me help you! He can't block an email unless he knows what it is :) Hmmmmmm.....babywolf2000@hotmail.com Have fun with this :) I bet he didn't expect this at all. Who's the dimwit now?! Oh, and Steven, since I know you are watching the forum, you are pretty stupid thinking I can't contact you as I do have other screennames :) But, I am not as childish as you, so I will refrain and instead allow others to do it for me or force you to change your email account.

    I'm sure anyone here would consider this taking a forum way too far by actually breaching trust and emailing a nasty letter to me when I did not do the same to him nor give him permission to contact me. I believe I just effectively destroyed any credibility Saturnboy had in this forum. I still think it is so funny how I suddenly became the king of bashing Saturns when I just pointed out a few simple crash test data and my own small experiences with Saturns. Oh well, his loss not mine. And if this is the kind of people that are in the "Saturn family", count me out! Thanks for listening everyone and I hope you find Saturnboy's actions disturbing.
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    You're right, that is childish behavior and just more proof that saturnboy cannot wash his hands of this forum, as he has already claimed to do two times now. I wouldn't let it get to you. It is kind of sad that Saturnboy feels he has to waste so much of his time and energy defending a car company with his ridiculous comments. Especially when he sounds so dead set on jumping ship to Ford. Seems like a very unbalanced person to me. And as far as him dubbing you the "king of Saturn bashers"--well that is cool--at least you get to be king of something! It is not a position that too many of us get to attain in life!
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    I think Saturnboy or Stephen or babywolf or, whatever his name is, is wrong about forums like this not hurting sales of Saturn or any other car company. Luckily word of mouth is one of the most powerful forces in decreasing sales when customers are unsatisfied and this is something that more car companies ought to pay much more attention to. All the hype in the world is not going to convince me to buy a car when I hear numerous stories from owners about cars, any cars, burning oil or blowing head gaskets or whatever at 40,000 miles. Ironically a strong influence on my recent desicion not to purchase a Saturn was Saturnboy himself. Like it was posted above, I felt like if that is what the Saturn family was, I didn't want part in it. After reading Saturnboys ravings, I was afraid that if I bought a Saturn I might turn into some sort of stepford car owner.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    LOL, if anyone got bent out of shape in this forum, it is you Saturnboy. You were the one that took it so seriously as to email me a stupid letter. Now that you know how ridiculous you sounded, you come crawling back into the same forum you claimed you would exit permanently to try and salvage your dignity with acting normal for once. Well, it won't work. You have already ruined your credibility and made yourself look rather stupid and childish.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    How about all the rain we've been having lately in the Great Lakes area huh?
  • floridianfloridian Posts: 219
    saturnut: (oops, I mean saturnboy) GET A LIFE !!!
    He'll need a Ranger to haul all the BS he shovels about.

    Floridian, tired of his rantings!!
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Posts: 135
    Saturnboy, man talk about vengefull! I mentioned the exorbident dealer profit on the cars. $1500 to $3000 above their invoice cost and mentioned that that alone would buy a lot of customers donuts and coffee. You would have thought I'd kidnapped his family and burned his house down. I started calling him Hostile Man --I don't think he liked me too well. But I really got tired of not being able to discuss the car because he arrived on his white horse in full armor to defend any little negitivism. It got really old and I suspect he drove a lot of nice folks off this discussion because of his over zealousness for something made of metal, glass, wire - and oh yeah let's not forget the plastic. Now I will say again Saturns are nice average cars to me-nothing more, nothing less.
  • fredfred3fredfred3 Posts: 73
    I think Saturnboy should have studied a little bit harder in his psych classes because they certainly did not help to improve his interpersonal skills. Perhaps when he reaches maturity and joins the real world, he should consider a career other than the psychology field. I am sure Saturn could use somebody with his zeal even if he does (now that the truth has come out) find their products questionable. Don't worry Saturnboy, we won't tell that you dont think Saturns are perfect. Your secret is safe with us!
  • claryclary Posts: 18
    I move that we rename this topic "Autophilia Hubris - The Rise and Fall of Saturnboy"

    And now for a Saturn car question. My SW2 has
    56 000 miles on it. Is there some major service or investment in new parts that I ought to do that is not mentioned in the owner's manual? For example, when do I put new struts on? The Book says nothing on that matter. Also, as my car is a 1997, I am curious to hear from anyone with high mileage experience with this engine. Can I easily expect an engine life well in excess of 200 000 miles? What stuff will begin breaking as I approach the almost 100 000 mile mark? Thermostats? Tach cables? Just curious.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Actually, posting private e-mail is pretty damn childish and petty while you're at it. People don't need permession to send an e-mail to someone. And you're threatening to send him a lot of stuff? C'mon.

    clary: I have 90K miles on mine ( a '96 ) and have as of yet just done book maintenence. Everything seems to be in solid working order ( knock on wood ). Every other car of mine has needed substantial work by this point ( escort, tercel, VW passat, saab 900 ) so i'm pretty pleased about that.

    dave
  • ken1776ken1776 Posts: 41
    I, on the other hand had to have substantial work on my 95 SL 2 at 80,000. And have not had to do the same kind of work on my other cars. If it's running OK stick with the book maintenance. You might want to have your compression checked. This is one area that Saturn motors have had issues.
  • norbert444norbert444 Posts: 195
    Judging from my past experience with other cars, do not expect to have to replace anything particular "first." ken1776, you suggest compression check and I have been advised by people who like to stick to the subject of this forum to have other things (like decarbonization)done, which are items not suggested in the Saturn book. I usually keep listening to any unusual sounds or behavior developing on the car and then do the checking accordingly.

    And, my question: I have had a lot of problems that were taken care of during the warranty period (transmission, front end alignment, instruments, battery). Since then, the head gasket leaked but nothing else seems to misbehave. Has anyone been involved with a car like that - what should I expect to fail, or what should I do to protect the car? My '95 SL2 is now approaching 50K miles.
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