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High End Luxury Cars

L8_ApexL8_Apex Posts: 187
I've decided to open up this topic a bit from the
original HIGH END LUXURY? 7-Series vs. S-Class vs.
LS400?
topic. Arguably, the LS400 qualifies at the
low-end of high-end while the S-Class and
7-Series, when equipped to the hilt with
technowizardry and cylinders in the double-digits,
define high-end. For the purposes of comparison,
the cover charge is a base MSRP of $50K. Several
manufacturers have obviously decided to
strategically price their offerings just below this
magic number. If that's the case, are they really
interested in the "high-end" or is the
"upper-middle-class" of the car world a good
target, at least for now? So... the cutoff is
$50K.

Please continue your discussion...

Thanks,

L8_Apex
Sedans Host
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Comments

  • All great cars, so let the discussions begin!!!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I guess no one wants to talk anymore huh?

    M
  • I was talking wiht a friend of mine about this line up of autos. We came to the conclusion that the figures just dont add up. It is not completely fair to put these cars up in head to head competition. The Mercedes and BMW both have sitcker prices arround 95+. The Jaguar and Audi ring up at arround 70K, and Lexus starts arround 55K.
    All five are great cars but i personaly believe some are just better than others, not because one is a lesser car, but it is just not in its own league. After doing some research The Lexus is more comperable to a 5-series BMW or a E-class Mercedes. When you look at the competition that way, its pretty clear who is on top. The LS400 offers more toys than either of the 2 Germans and puts it in a totaly different class.
    Each of these cars has a totaly different personality. Audis are still a sleeper, the A8 is understated, no one realises it is what it is. Bimmers are known for a sporty reputation. Jaguars are the stuffy british kick, great style and pleanty of problems. Lexus seems to be a total isolation vehicle, a place to get away from any and all noise. Mercedes has always been the ultimate in status, not that is is the best thing out there but its all status.
    To say any of these cars is better than another is impossible, they all have some quirk that gives them an edge, i would kill to get into a design center and make my ideal car with all the best things from all the above makers. That would be my super car!
  • Currently we own a vehicle from Lexus, both of the German makes and Volvo. Each offers a different level of comfort, sport and security. For vault like construction, the Germans have it, and at the top, I believe is the MBZ. Sprotiness, BMW. Quietness goes to the Lexus. Longevity, I believe will go to the MBZ with BMW second. As far as the Lexus, I will have to wait and see.

    To all who have complained of the many problems with these autos I have been fortunate. I Have owned 3 MBZ (2 S classes and one SL) and have had no problems with the sales people or the service people. I have had minimal mechanical problems and the cost have been very reasonable. I have only had the Lexus for a year and the only mechanical problem I've had was with the cd changer and Lexus gave me a brand new one. No questions asked. The sales person was a nimrod and they are overly proud of their autos but the Sevice people are execellent. The other Marques could learn a thing or two from these guys. Bye the way, Lexus even sent me a $50 check for bring my car in for a factory recall. The bimmer is only a few months old, but not one problem and the phrase fun to drive just does not describe it.

    So far the Lexus has not cost me one dime to maintain (service wise) but with the posted labor prices, I expect that to change and it looks as if the Lexus will be the most expensive to maintain.

    Any opinions on this?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    What "toys" does the LS400 offer that are not available on the S-Class or 7-Series, or did you mean the E-Class and 5-Series? If its the 5 and E, the LS is a notch above those 2 in most areas.
    The S-Class does not have a sticker of 95K, and the only 7-Series approaching that price is the 750iL, unless you get one of the protection models. The competitive models, S430 and 740iL are not 95K cars.


    M
  • But the S500 is knocking on $90K+!!
  • After adding tax and lux tax and destianation charges you are at 95. I was reffering to a 750, primarialy cuz it is the king ok the BMW line up, as is the LS to Lexus.
    as for the toys, im not sure what all Lexus puts in their cars but i do own a BMW 7 with so many gadgets that it is almost crazy.
    To me the toys of my car are: Heated Steering Wheel, Comfort seats with an adjustable sholder rest, 8 Air Bags, Insulated Windows, power rear seats with heat, radar in the bumpers, power sun shades.
    Its all the little toys i love and BMW is known for their toys.
    What all does Lexus offer? I know that Jaguar is a pretty boring car on the inside, very plush, but boring.
  • How are 8 airbags toys?? I would consider them as Safety features and would never think of them as toys.
  • jbradbjbradb Posts: 39
    I've seen edmunds re used LS400s, but any strong feelings? seems '96 ('95?) was a style change and '98 was an engine change. other than those two biggies, what do you Lexophiles think?

    I'm not asking opinions about WHETHER to get a Lexus vs. other brand. I've driven enough to know they are like apples and oranges. Thanks!
  • jbradb,

    The 1st generation LS400 went from 1990 thru the 1994 model year. The 2nd generation LS400 came out during the 1995 model year. The 2 1/2 generation LS400 came out for the 1998 model year.

    Basically the 1998-2000 LS400 is the same car as the 1995(2nd generation LS400). The basic changes that Lexus made for the 1998 model year were a new engine and transmission, different gauge cluster, more wood trim, different front fenders, bumper, lights, grille, and hood, as well as different wheels. Other changes were a Drive-by-wire Throttle control system, standard VSC, and numerous other features were added. ALso the rear tailights were slightly redesigned.

    1995 was a complete overhaul of the car from the 1994(1st generation) LS400.

    Is that what you wanted to know? Or was it somethign else?
  • jbradbjbradb Posts: 39
    enigma23,

    Exactly what I was wanting to know. So, between '95/'96/'97, not alot of difference? (I don't think I'd look earlier than a '95 anyway)

    Price for these seems to run ~5K more for each later year u get. So, I could get a '95 for mid-upper 20Ks...but a '98 would run 40-45K, other things being equal. I guess u see my point. It might just come down to my looking at them on a lot and comparing one after another. Thanks!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You add taxes and destination to any car and the price goes up dramatically. The MSRP is not 90K for a S500. Car & Driver adds luxury tax to a car's MSRP too and then says that this is the "base" price. The 750iL is a good 90K car no matter how you slice it, but the S500 isn't.

    M
  • jbradb,

    Yes the 1995 to 1997 models were basically identical. The only thing that changed was for 1997, when Lexus added Side-impact airbags.
  • jbradbjbradb Posts: 39
    edmund's give "fair mkt. value" at 34K, whereas Kelly BB says "retail" is 38K....who's closer? dealer seems to be 1K above Kelly BB before negotiation.
  • Kelly's BB is closer to actual retail value. I always found that Edmunds numbers are usually off by alot. The reason edmunds is not as good is because they only give one standardized price for the entire country. Whereas, KBBs values change based on where you live.
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    Regarding post #15:

    In my experience, Kelly's prices are typically closer to what you would PAY for a used car if you bought it off a lot. Edmunds and NADA (which offers wholesale and retail prices) seem to be closer to what you would get if you sell it yourself or buy from the owner which is typically less than the Kelly price.

    -rdo
    russell.ollie@erols.com
  • Gosh bmwboys!

    Jag boring??? Being the experienced Jaguar owner that I am, ;-) 25 days and counting, the car I drive, is anything but dull. The tires are rated to 168 mph!!! The sound system tricks you into thinking you are in a concert hall - all alone, with the artist performing just for you. I can't tell you how many friends, relatives and clients have said 'I have never ridden in a Jaguar before.' This 2000 XJ8 L is treating me sweetly. Surely, there are other 4 wheel carts with more gizmos. But ya know, I have been kept busy reading the four books that came with this vehicle, as it is. It does the important stuff, with out the clutter of features, that perhaps only bring bragging right. As one of our Edmunds comrades has said, 'The Jag, has old world charm.' Enjoying her Jag, Jody
  • Upon my first visit to this site, I read with great interest, the discussion about the various luxury sedans. From my perspective the $$ has little to do with the "ranking" of the car. There is really very little difference in the cost. The issue to me is how does the vehicle compare? In my humnble opinion there are two choices....everything else and the BMW. The LS400 is a vewry fine vehicle yet it is boring. The MB....is what I'll drive when I am a grandfather. Until then, I want to hear and feel the power of my bimmer as I roll by.

    Riding The Black Rocket,
    Sim
  • Hey Jody,
    I would have to admit your right on the jaguar being boring. It is one of the SEXIEST cars on the road, and there is nothing that turns heads more than a jag, but my bigest problem was that it was really slopy on the road. I traded my BMW M3 for a jaguar XJR and i wish i could get my M3 back. The jag was sexy and it was fast but i didnt feel like i was in control any longer. As for the interior appointments, what the jag lacks in gizmos it makes up for in wood. I think that is one of the best parts of a jag is all the wood. It is simple and that does make it classic, but i found the speedometer hard to read. do you have that problem?
    By the way i sold my XJR 4 months after i owned it. 2100 miles. Someone got a deal, so if you see a white XJR wiht tinted windows it could be mine!
  • Hey Simon,
    Im a BMW nut as well, what do you drive?
    Jon
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