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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,861
    Well, I would say the LS is where the "smart money" people go because after 4 or 5 years they cost considerably MORE than the S Class.

    I guess we will just have to wait and see which car will be the 2007 sales champ. As if we didn't already know. ;)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Gosh, this is the HELC forum isn't it? It has all the revelevance in the world here

    OK Tagman fair enough the C & D results are highly relevant for this forum. But what really stands out with these results is the fact that the new LS is not meant to compete with the perfromance of a BMW 7 series. Which by the way reminds me of that tumultous dispute we had in a Lexus forum when you said the following words:

    "The LS will steal sales from a 7 Series"

    Can you recall that dispute ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The article was written from a performance perspective.

    That is exactly what I meant by the article being biased. No surprise.


    No Houdini it is not only in terms of performance that the LS was beaten by the S Class. According to C & D the S Class also beat the LS in terms of non-performance qualities such as driving comfort, rear seat space, trunk space and last but not least fit and finish.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The LS has only been the best seller in the past because of its price. It was a good value play for those who couldn't afford the real thing, a Mercedes Benz S-Class,

    Howard,

    I disagree. I think many if not most LS drivers can afford an S Class. I just think they chose an LS for its compelling value and top quality.

    A SWB LS460 at 62K US$ is compelling value. Unfortunately here in Canada a SWB LS460 at 76K US$ (85K CDN$) is no value at all, IMO.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    Sounds like a dig at Audi. Audi doesn't need to be BMW or Mercedes-Benz as it does quite well as Audi. Sounds a bit of arrogant remark...as Audi every needed to be like them in the first place. As for the S6, one has to keep things in perspective. First of all, the S6 is 65 or so horsepower less than the M5. It is not mean as a competitor to the M5 or the MB. That is what the RS6 is and will be debuting at Geneva in March with a minimum of 530 bhp and higher. The RS6 is the competitor to the M5 and MB and it will easily outclass them and outperform them with ease. The S6 is not "lesser" in anyway as the M5 and the MB as it quite a beautiful performance machine. As for prestige Audi does quite well there qlobally. Let's not be fanboys - lacks credibility or worse yet it becomes like Autospies.com
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I get what you're saying here, but Audi has stated over and over that they want to be on equal footing in status/prestige/clout with Mercedes and BMW.

    The S6 is a in-between car or tweener as LG calls it. I don't think they set out to compete directly with the M5 or E63, but the media will compare it that way.

    I think you know by now that I think the world of Audi, but beyond you and I and some others here Audi is lacking big time in the image department with luxury car buyers in the U.S. That is something that can't be denied and the global argument can only go so far.

    You know I'm an Audi fan which is why I want better things for them, but I'm not surprised at Edmunds take on the S6.

    M
  • I am in the car search of a car for my wife. :confuse: Which one of these luxury rides would be perfect for her. I am about to buy myself a MB CLS55 AMG. What could I get my wife to keep her in the game with me. I really like the BMW 7 and MB S Class
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,861
    There were many inconsistancies in this report. They called the fit and finish on the LS "flawless", yet it scored lower than the S. The LS got much better mileage than the S but they scored the same. The S has the worst mpg of the 5 tested yet tied for first in the ratings. The LS was quieter than the S at idle, under acceleration, and cruising but the S was rated better on nvh. I could go on and on.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • WHich one will be better for my wife the MB S or BMW 7 Series. I want her to look good as well. :shades:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I saw all that, but I had no idea that a comparo had been done when I first started joining in the melee.

    Of course I vote for the SL550!

    I have to say I was really surprised by the placement of the LS460. The previous LS430 and LS400 have been winners at C&D for years so to have hugely superior LS460L place last was quite a shock to me. The thing is though the previous LS models never had to face the S500, only the S430 and then it was usually a few years after the S430 and previous S420 were already on the road. The only time the previous LS430 faced a S500 was in 2001 in a MT comparo and the S500 won then too. Both the Benz and the Lexus are brand new and I don't remember that being the case in any other comparo before. Things change, but I still want to see what MT and R&T say about this. Then there is Automobile magazine. You gotta love how now all of a sudden C&D is so biased, yet in the past they put the LS over everything and they were right on the money then.

    The curious thing is that the 08' S450 is pegged at 5.9 secs 0-60 mph, right around what the LS460L does in real world testing and at a loaded price of 93K a S450 would likely be cheaper than a loaded LS460L. Change is something else.

    M
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,861
    I would just get her both. She can drive one during the week and the other on weekends. Then she will be looking good.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • :confuse: WHich one will be better for my wife the MB S or BMW 7 Series. I want her to look good as well.
  • :DI really can't afford both. I want to get her something that could come close to the performance as my CLS55 AMG but not to close. But something when someone looks at it they be like that is nice as my MB. :D
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Could be that they found the S550 to have even better fit and finish than the already good LS460L? Yep. The LS460L scored better in those categories you mentioned, but you left out that the LS460L's brakes were awful, trunk space was lacking, and it was found to have a less comfortable rear seat. The S550 had better handling and superior NVH control when it came to the engine. You aren't looking at the whole review only the categories in which the Lexus did well at.

    Lexus should be more careful about which features they decide to pick up from Mercedes. Mercedes has backed away from the electrohydraulic brakes just as Lexus starts adopt them in more of their cars - to bad reviews just like Mercedes got. Difference is though MB's version did stop the car in shorter distances in some tests with complaints about feel. Lexus' complaints seem to be about both feel and function.

    M
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    They have changed. Both have more powerful powerplants and additional features not seen initially.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,861
    Audi actually won this comparo except that it was soundly beaten by the S in the...drum roll please... "Gotta have it" category. Can you believe that? If the S had still been behind they would have trotted out the "largest wheel well" category. Totally BOGUS.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,861
    I would not be surprised to find out the LS was a pre production model. I did not know the LWB was available yet. They said the LS was quieter even with a defective door sill. And that deal with the brakes has got to be an aberation.

    Seems odd that the LWB would be tested first.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,861
    OK, I read the report a little more closely and the LS that was tested was indeed a PREPRODUCTION CAR. This throws the whole test into a cocked hat!! Talk about unfair. I simply can't believe C&D would do a test like this and try to sneak it by with one tiny little mention that it was preproduction!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's understand what's up for debate here, okay?

    Opinions about the vehicles are more than welcome. Opinions about posted relevant reviews are also very welcome as long as they are not used to cast aspersions on other members.

    Opinions of other members' opinions of cars or reviews or whatever reeeally are not on topic here and need to be left at the door. We are here to talk about cars, so lets do just that. We're not here to talk about each other at all.

    So let's go from there.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Automag reviews are done months in advance so it isn't unusual that they test pre-production models. In fact it is done all the time.

    Pre-production might have helped the brakes and acceleration, but pre-production or not it still wouldn't have helped rear seat comfort or trunk space.

    M
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