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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    A good move. Once you enter the sports car realm, I do believe a manual is mandatory.

    For an every day driver, the way many BMW's are used, I have no problem with the steptronic. It's a practical decision.

    I wouldn't expect anyone to purchase a 911 for crawling along in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic.

    The word "pretender" was really meant to classify drivers who buy high-end sports cars and compromise them with automatic transmissions. Sorry for not being clearer.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Definition: Any car with a high-performance engine that CANNOT be mated to a manual transmission.

    Given the "advancements" of our society, the automatic transmission is not only expected, even on sports cars, but a mandatory option, to make a business case for production budgets.

    It is when they are THE ONLY option, that is when you no longer have a sports car, you have a neutered race house.

    Power is nothing without control.

    DSG is a fine option, but cannot replace a manual. You are still relinguishing control of the vehicle.

    As we get older, we are more willing to give up control for convenience, in the car, at home, whatever.

    I'm not whipped yet, at home, or by Father Time.

    People under-35 aren't buying IS-F, or other such vehicles. Those who've reached "The 2nd Plateau", married, with kids, will sell out to a more convenient option.

    How much fun is a fast car with an automatic? I haven't met one yet that would match the intrique of a manual. EVERY CAR is more enjoyable with a manual, with a few exceptions (due to a poorly made clutch/gearbox). EVERY CAR is more convenient with an automatic.

    Everyone who drives a Corvette with slush is a poseur. Period! If you can't/won't drive the car, get something that you can handle.

    I have no respect for the IS-F, C63, or any other poseurmobile without a real transmission for performance. It is a total waste of an drivetrain. I don't see the point, except to court those who can't/won't drive. Which is fine, but don't alienate the market for that vehicle at the same time.

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    What makes this chart most interesting is the lack of customer retention for Infiniti which happens to be the lowest among the luxury bunch. Jaguar has a lousy customer retention level too. Audi, Porsche, Acura, Land Rover are below average.

    Toyota knocked Lexus off its number one position. BMW and MB have pretty good customer retention levels.

    image
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    EVERY CAR is more enjoyable with a manual, with a few exceptions (due to a poorly made clutch/gearbox). EVERY CAR is more convenient with an automatic.

    EVERY CAR except a HELC sedan! :P
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    HELC aren't offered with a manual, so they are excluded.

    DrFill
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,860
    Dewey, with all due respect this survey merely confirms what we all already knew...

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That Toyota/Honda/Lexus doiminate the top 3?

    I am surprised Infiniti, Audi, Chrysler, and VW are so poor. Reliability has been a problem at VW/Audi. Infiniti has no real excuse. Chrysler makes good stuff, and many are very durable vehicles.

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Thanks for the chart. A very good showing by BMW, just behind Japans's big 3.

    And to think I was just about to waste a day test driving Isuzus!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think you mean test driving Isuzu. There's only one left. :)

    It technically isn't Japan's big three, only the biggest two. Nissan is just average. I'm very surprised that Honda did so well, while Acura stunk up the place. I think the fact that the TL has been their only strong car in the last two years or so probably has a lot to do with that.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Here’s Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2007 at a glance (vehicle tested in parenthesis):

    Audi AG 2L turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A3)
    BMW AG 3L DOHC I-6 (Z4 3.0si)
    BMW AG 3L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (335i)
    DaimlerChrysler AG 3L DOHC V-6 turbodiesel (Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec/Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD)
    DaimlerChrysler AG Hemi 5.7L OHV V-8 (Chrysler 300C)
    Ford Motor Co. Duratec 35 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX)
    Ford Motor Co. 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Mustang GT/Mustang Shelby GT)
    Mazda Motor Corp. 2.3L DISI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mazdaspeed3)
    Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35)
    Toyota Motor Corp. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)

    Do you notice the lack of HELC engines on the list?

    The two cars that are in my garage are equipped with two different engines on the list: A BMW 3.0L twin turbo i6 (BMW335i) and a BMW 3.0L i6(BMW 530xi Touring). I guess that coincidence is all due to my very good taste in fine cars. :shades:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Dewey, with all due respect this survey merely confirms what we all already knew.

    Just passing along info Houdini. It wasn't necessarily meant for you. If you have no interest then I would suggest that you ignore it. :P
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    OK Howard and DrFill,

    which one below is the true performance enthusiast and which one is the poseur?

    A) The person who is in denial that a DSG can outshift him with a manual tranny?
    B) The person who picks DSG in order to get the best performance possible?

    I guess the answer is obvious, dont you think?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree with most of their choices, but they lost me on Ford's 4.6L SOHC Mustang\truck engine. How is that best anything? Its crude, and makes a pathetic amount of power for its size. Since when does being dirt cheap to produce make an engine "best"?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I meant the big 3 in brand satisfaction even though technically you are of course correct, it is the big two.

    I'm waiting to see the reports of the owners of the new MDX in about 6 months. Right now, it's still a bit early as I wait out the euphoria stage.

    I will skip the one Isuzu and the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara which was rated by CR recently at a dismal "17." I don't believe I have ever seen a vehicle rated that poorly.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    A) The person who is in denial that a DSG can outshift him with a manual tranny?
    B) The person who picks DSG in order to get the best performance possible?


    I don't think thats really it. Even Porsche admits that the Tiptronic 911 Turbo is faster than the MT version. That doesn't mean that those who choose to buy the MT are "in denial".

    Consider hydraulic vs. fly-by-wire flight controls. Keeping a P-38 in the air was 100% pilot skill. Modern jet fighters are flown by computers, with the stick serving as a pointing device. How many pilots of today's fighters could pull a P-38 out of a spin or stall?

    Driving with a MT is like that. Yes SMGs and even some manumatics can shift faster, but there's satisfaction in you rather than the computers doing the work.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,860
    Heh, heh, heh!! :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    A CVT can outshift me! That doesn't mean I'm gonna drive it, or it's the appropriate transmission for a sports car.

    Corvettes weren't created to be mated to an automatic transmission.

    To defend sloth or laziness, you better be Johnnie Cochran, reincarnated. I'm no Marcia Clark! ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Audi AG 2L turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A3)
    BMW AG 3L DOHC I-6 (Z4 3.0si)
    BMW AG 3L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (335i)
    DaimlerChrysler AG 3L DOHC V-6 turbodiesel (Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec/Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD)
    DaimlerChrysler AG Hemi 5.7L OHV V-8 (Chrysler 300C)
    Ford Motor Co. Duratec 35 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX)
    Ford Motor Co. 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Mustang GT/Mustang Shelby GT)
    Mazda Motor Corp. 2.3L DISI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mazdaspeed3)
    Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35)
    Toyota Motor Corp. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)

    This list is a bunch of %&$#!

    NEITHER of the Ford engines should be thur! The 3.5 because since THE LAST GENERATION Altima had similar power, and the Nissan and Toyota 3.5 easily overpower it. The 4.6 because it's just less efficient, and only as powerful as the 3.5 in the Nissan and Toyota! Plus it's crude in comparison.

    This list should be kept to naturally-aspirated only. Not even the Prius' engine should make it.

    Here's my list:

    G35 3.5 (306HP, MT or AT)
    Dodge HEMI SRT-8 (Many vehicles, 425HP, 6.1L)
    Vette Z06 (7.0L 505HP, lightweight, 0-60 in 3.3)
    BMW 3.0 (255HP)
    Lexus LS460 (380HP from 4.6L, matching 5.5L)
    Mercedes BlueTec Diesel
    Ferrari 4.3 (483HP, 5-valves per cylinder)
    Honda S2000 (240HP out of 2.2L)
    2007 Toyota Tundra (381HP, 400+ lbs.ft from 5.7L)
    Mazda RX-8 Rotory (1.3L, 238HP)

    DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I don't think turbo or supercharged engines should be kept off the list, but listing the BMW 3.0L twice (with turbo and without) is kind of lame. I do agree about the Duratec 35, Ford shouldn't be given an award for finally making a somewhat competitive V6 5 years too late.

    Mazda's 2.3L turbo is more sophisticated than the rotary, and just a better engine overall. The rotary has very anemic torque (worse than the S2000 I think) and it guzzles oil like its going out of style.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    lexusguy - you will also appreciate this.

    You and I briefly chatted about this improvement much earlier in the year, and it has finally happened.

    link title

    TagMan
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