Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

High End Luxury Cars



  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    1)The LS 460 is for people who hate cars.

    OK Howard I do agree his statement above is a bit extreme. But other than that one very extreme sentence the rest of his review appears to be fairly balanced, objective and unbiased ;)

    2)This review seems to target the same lengthy list of the LS460's weaknesses as most of the other reviews, however the writing style seemed a bit too harsh and sarcastic, IMO.


    I am almost hundred percent convinced that this reviewer must of had a heated dispute about that MEGA BOW Lexus Ad with one of our forum members just before test driving the LS.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes. The criticisms are not only well-taken but also well-documented.

    I would like to see a new December to Remember commercial where when confronted with a new LS460 topped by a red ribbon, the person is shown pouting and says, "Well, I really was kind of expecting a Longines." ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I noticed that you dropped that little "bomb" on the LS forum... and you and your article weren't all that well received.

    I've noticed something unusual over there lately. There are lots of posts trying to determine who now writes the proper reviews of the LS... and interestingly, they are discrediting all those magazines and reviewers that criticize the LS, and giving high marks to those reviewers and magazines that like the LS.

    Is "selective criticism" a new terminology for the 21st century?

    Oh well, I guess some hear what some want to hear...but I still believe there is always more than one side to a story.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Well, just as Dewey shows us the more typical review, here comes one of those that reads like it was written at Lexus headquarters.

    link title

    I gave this little present to the LS forum. It ought to pump them up for a while. ;)

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    My question is how does Lexus justify charging so much for a vehicle which offers so little?

    I guess we know the true author of that insipid piece.

    As we segui from MT reviews (highly positive, and poignant), to obscure footnotes (both good and bad), let us review.

    I'm making a list, and checking it twice:

    The New LS is:

    A poor value
    Poor handling
    Poor steering
    Has cheap buttons
    Has small foot space
    Has dumb owners
    Has ignorant owners
    Is hateable
    Has many weaknesses

    Anyone else wanna call Babe Ruth fat? Babe Zaharias crude? Ali a loudmouth?

    You guys sound like a bunch of Audi engineers. All steak, no sizzle. Our car is better that theirs! Why can't we be Lexus, and they sit here and be scrubs! :mad:

    Haters never win. At the end of the day, the customer is always right.

    You guys get your quality up, make about 5 years worth of quality ads. Get people to come back for their second car. Win a few hundred awards. Sell customers, not journalists. Then maybe you can be a Lexus! :surprise:

    Maybe. :blush:

    I guess it would be a bad time to bring up another EASY Lexus win in the HELM division, customer retention.

    If Lexus is wrong, I don't wanna be right! :)

    Lexus owners sleep the sleep of the righteous. ;)

    So do Lexus-backers! Good night.

    And I want some real jealousy tomorrow, but make it sizzle! I want to feel the envy, the total exasperation at Lexus' ascention.

    Pretend it's 1936 in Munich, and you see Jesse Owens winning race after race, or something.

    I believe in you guys, so don't let me down. ;)

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You're coming in loud and clear, Doc. Maybe you could turn down the volume just a little?

    There are bound to be different opinions. But the criticisms are far from just being thrown at the LS.

    You should hear the crazy stuff posted about BMW's recently. Heck, if I were to believe that hyperbole stuff, I'd expect every single part of a BMW to completely fall apart (except for the engine, if it's a diesel!) in only 3 years. The S-Class has been called a lemon, and the Audi has been called a loser, and the junk goes on and on.

    Perhaps I should research some of YOUR wonderful remarks over the last year?

    Still think you deserve a more righteous sleep, eh? I don't think so.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    This Maybach 62's driver's door got stuck... and this is how the owner attempted to solve the problem.

    link title


  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Criticisms are justified by the continuing appearances in reviews of the same faults: numb steering, grabby brakes, little driver involvement and feedback. "A car I can't love."
    A car that appears "slow" given its 5.4 seconds 0-60 mph time.

    Do you think most of the reviewers have conspired to trash the LS460?
    As illogical as saying BMWs fall apart in 3 years.
  • Maybe you're right about the Volvo XC90 pricing.
    UK pricing is much higher because of the tax imposed by the govt.

    Currenty standard XC90 in US is starting below $40K, So it doesn't make sense to price the Executive edition more than twice the standard edition. But look at the Porsche Cayenne, the standard edition also starts around $40K, but the Cayenne Turbo S is about $100K. Boy that's a bit on the extreme just for a different engine plus a few bells & whistles but same body style. My guess is the XC90 Executive will starts between $60K-$70K
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The problem here Doc is the same as always. I at no point stated that Mercedes' advertising was the stuff that other companies aspire to or that it has shaped the industry, that was your claim about Lexus. I stated that Lexus showing someone running out to the street to unwrap a Lexus wasn't up to the genius that you claimed it was. Period. Like I said before Jaguar does something similar and it is much more tastefully done and the people don't look and act like idiots in their commercials either.

    You danced around my other post, how God-awful and "lame" the current Mercedes ad campaign is. Or am I missing some "brain power", and this is a ad we should see every year?

    Yeah sure, and you've continually danced around taking a look into that thread I've mentioned 3-4 times already to see if Lexus is mentioned as having some of the worst Dec commercials going. I'm far from the only one that thinks Lexus' Dec ads are pathetic.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Merc can't have it all the way around. The cars are lame, the ads are lame, hybrid is lame, interiors are cheap, no innovation.

    Again, you mixed me up with someone else. Where did I say that a Lexus had a cheap interior? Where? Apparently you've never read anything I've ever posted about the TOL or an auto show concerning Lexus. Have stated that their interior designs are no different from a top line Toyota's design, not that they were cheaply made material wise. Big difference.

    Where did I say that hybrids are lame Doc? When and where? The only thing I've ever said about Lexus hybrids is that they aren't all that and that the GS450h in particular hasn't set the world/segment on fire like some used to say it would.

    Please stop putting words in my posts. Oh hell yeah I've said that Lexus doesn't innovate squat and that they don't drive or look like anything (IS350 excluded), but at no point did I say that they had cheap interiors or that hybrids are lame. Ccould you at least get the charges correct beforehand?

    Only one problem. Lexus can't build enough of them! Mercedes has been scrambling after Lexus, inside and out, since 1989?

    Funny, they surely have been able to build enough GS and SC models. They surely can build enough GX and LX models too unless declining sales mean increased demand in your world. Keep hyping it up like every Lexus is in hot demand and sold out, it is specious rhetoric at its best.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And regarding the Lexus "Bow" commercials, these are far from original. Lexus may have started 'em in 2000, but I'm fairly sure VW was doing the same thing in the 60s or 70s.

    Intersting, but Lexus is supposed to get some type of medal for this. Jaguar does the same thing, but in a much more tasteful way.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well the normal charge is that any review that doesn't praise the LS isn't credible.

    That said, this review does go a little overboard. For one why is a car like the LS being compared to a E63 AMG?

    I agree with the overall opinion of the automotive press that the LS460 isn't anywhere near the event relative to the current competition that the 1990 model was, but this review is a little too precious.

  • And I would like to pre-empt anyone from accusing me of writing this review. Honest it wasn't me that wrote this.

    LOL, you are right. This article couldn't have been written by you, only you. It looks like a masterpiece by Tag, HP, YOU and some other Lex haters.

    Btw, I still don't get the complaints about the LS not being a bargain any longer :confuse: Given that the price range has expanded quite a bit, but the regular LS can still be had in the mid USD 60's. For me, this car is quieter than the S class, or BMW 7; just as quick when needed; and this what this class of cars is about.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I would enthusiastically take credit for it, since I am an advocate for truth in journalism, but alas, I didn't.

    Why don't the folks who take issue with certain points in the review by Mr. Shoemaker post some arguments against the specific points he makes?

    Instead we get, "It looks like a masterpiece written by Tag, HP, YOU (Dewey) and some other Lex haters."

    Can't you refute anything he wrote?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I noticed that you dropped that little "bomb" on the LS forum... and you and your article weren't all that well received.

    Everytime I poke my head into a Lexus forum just to have a very friendly and cordial chat it always ends up feeling like I poked my head into a gas oven :sick:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243

    this is getting a bit too serious now. But unfortunately you better prepare yourself for that brochure-diet you vowed to go on when a new MB S convertible is introduced.

    I know you go on an annual Detroit pilgrimage during January and you will be able to see it with your own eyes next month according to Automotive News Report.

    Which brings me to the important second matter. Our BMW 5 vs MB E sales bet for 2006. Oh what a shame this one bet was a gentlemens' bet. Next time we make a bet whoever loses will have to eat a hardcopy of War and Peace. :P
  • I have not get a chance to test drive the new LS, so I can't say any thing about it one way or the other. I think as intelligent people, we know trash when we see/smell it. Plus, all these points have been beaten to death here, so I would take DrFill's approach, which is let the sales numbers speak for themselves. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the LS460 will smashed all HELC sales records.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Overall what Shoemaker had to say was already said by other reviewers. Except he added some Cajun spice to his words. The one big weakness with this review was pointed out by Merc(comparing a MB E63 to a LS)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Btw, I still don't get the complaints about the LS not being a bargain any longer

    GS did you say the words bargain? From an American I understand what those words mean. But from a Canadain who is faced with a 87K CDN$ LS460 SWB MSRP I have not a clue how you can those words without a tinge of sarcasm :confuse:
Sign In or Register to comment.