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High End Luxury Cars

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  • "Perhaps you should move yourself to a land where people are not as manipulated by marketing as in the US!

    The biggest the crock that has ever been pulled on humankind is the product called Mercedes! How people will flock to it just because of the 3-pointed star. It wasn't long ago when I walked into a Benz dealer and I pointedly asked the dealer why I should buy a MB over a Acura, Lexus, or BMW. His one and ONLY response....."because it's a mercedes". That says it all! See, now that's manipulation! Oh but I guess the average american is just stupid and you must be the only one that is above manipulation by the media! or is it that you're the one being manipulated by intangibles like the false prestige of a 3-pointed star on the end of the hood or trying to cram down everyone's throat that they should be buying a BMW because handling & performance is all that matters? It seems more like the manipulation is being done on you."


    Maxhonda,

    This is too well said.... I am an owner of a 2007 E350, and I myself am a victim of this Mercedes manipulation, or actually, the people around me. I like some Mercedes models, but I sure am not crazy on a lot of them. I usually like something more unique and different, and that's why I used to drive a Jaguar S-Type (still drive it actually). Unlike Mercedes, which in Orange County, everyone's cousin and his brother pretty much has one, Jaguar is not all over the streets. You might want to ask why I then decided to get an E350, the reason is because most people think Mercedes is a high end car, and being one of the top employees of the company that I work for, my boss naturally thinks I should drive a Mercedes.

    Before I got the E350, I wanted to get an Audi A6, so I asked my sister's opinion. Her reaction after I told her the Audi was going to be around $50,000, she told me for that kind of money I might as well get a Mercedes. Now, my sister doesn't know much about cars, but she knows Mercedes is suppose to be an expensive car... that much she knows.

    In addition, being a single guy, my friends all think I should get a Mercedes because the car will impress the ladies more (I do to like to go the bars at Hollywood). Frankly, I do like the E350, I like the ride, and comfort, but I don't know if it's any better than the Audi A6, Infinti M35, or the Lexus GS, and I sure don't think it should have such premium over the other cars. One thing it does better however, is everyone knows Mercedes. Whether it's a loaded one with all the high tech gizmos, or a stripped one with a $10,000 rebate, a lot of people will think of Mercedes as a more expensive car than its competitors.

    Mercedes has done a wonderful job with the marketing, which reminds me of how DeBeer created the tradition of buying diamonds for women. You wish you had a choice, but your gf will want a diamond no matter what.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Let's look at what LEXUS has had to offer over the years, shall we?.....

    Just look at this Lexus center console...
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    And isn't this impressive?
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    Enough plastic anyone?...
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    A Lexus interior at its best...
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    Another beauty of a Lexus interior...
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    Just love that Lexus color combination, eh?...
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    What a wonderful Lexus steering wheel...
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    One of my favorites... shot out of a shotgun is this monstrosity from Lexus...
    image

    Well, lg, you sure made your point... Lexus interiors over the years are certainly nothing like those Acura interiors...
    :sick:

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Whats wrong with that late '90s ES300? It certainly blows the doors off the TL 3.2 and the Infiniti I30. The GS300\400 wasn't amazing on the inside, but that wood is real, and it beat the pants off the first gen RL, both as a car and in terms of interior design. Same for that late '90s RX. You may not like the design, but the wood's real. The late '90s RX300 sans NAV was not a great effort overall from Lexus. If all you can come up with is two cars though, I'm not impressed.

    EVERY Acura is bad.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    image

    image

    image

    Please show me "Acura's greatest hits" Tag, I'm dying to see that.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I'll second what lexusguy said. The wood in every one of your Lexus pics is real.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Enjoyed reading your post.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    I'll take fake wood over a boring motoring experience, thanks.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I've wondered about the collectibility of the Veyron, too. As expensive as it is, I think it's value will go south like senior Ohioans headed to Florida for the winter, deep and fast.

    Hmm, not sure about that after a '71 Hemi Cuda got 2.2 mil at auction. Veyron brings some serious numbers to the table starting with only 300 being made and being sold at a loss to the company. The price, expensive as it seems, belies the cost to build. Also, we are getting close to the point where certain speed numbers can no longer be broken unless Scotty can beam us up. I'm guessing we'll see it way up there in the auction hit parade down the road.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,770
    Nope, you asked for it so I gave it to ya. Enjoy! ;)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Lexusguy, I notice you put a lot of weight into quality of materials with regard to interior design which to a fine and to be expected with luxury cars. But I always consider the design of the layout first and would rather have an interior that has an aesthetic and fluid sense to it. Wood alone and top shelf materials mean nothing to me if it is not sculpted nicely. You make good points about Acura but Lexus interiors are hardly paradigms, very far from it IMO. For the most part I think they are incongruous and disproportionate, not shapely at all.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,770
    Boring? Are we talking about cars here or dinner companions?

    Anyone who is so easily bored should maybe be considering some professional help. Also, people who should know always say that people who are easily bored are usually very boring themselves. I would certainly second that opinion. Even moderately intelligent people are seldom bored.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    And "manipulation" of the consumer. Marketing is selling an idea, a perception. Whether it's cars, girls, tv shows, whatever.

    Mercedes is kinda beyond marketing, at this point. It is a known quantity, and doesn't need to be "sold" to anyone, per se. If you are looking for a luxury car, you will most likely find a Mercedes on your list of test drives.

    Marketing can be deceiving, very deceiving, but if you are building a business on that angle, you won't be in business for long. You do have to deliver on your message if you are in it for the long haul.

    Great marketing gets you traffic. Great vehicles get you sales, short and long-term customers. Loyal customers.

    US consumers NEED great marketing because there are so many options to choose from. A company needs a strong, effective message to stand out. We need to be inspired, especially with a newer company.

    Marketing sizzles, steak sells, and here we go.

    Marketing is not manipulation. It is inspiration, if done well. People want to be inspired.

    Lexus commercials, especially from 1989, inspired. Mercedes and BMW' legacy, their heritage, inspire.

    That's the difference between buying a Buick and a top-flite luxury car. Inspiration.

    DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You make good points about Acura but Lexus interiors are hardly paradigms, very far from it IMO. For the most part I think they are incongruous and disproportionate, not shapely at all.

    Every luxury car company has highs and lows in terms of interior design and quality, Lexus included. I just think Acura is lower than most. The ML and GL don't flatter MB. Neither did the pre-refresh C-class. The 7 series is mediocre at best, and the Z4 is like a cave. Audi...uh.. well I don't think the A3 is amazing on the inside. It's pretty hard to find fault with most Audis. At the other end though, Mercedes has the S-class, BMW has the X5, and Audi has the A8. Lexus has the ES and the 600hL. Cadillac has the post refresh SRX. Infiniti has never been known for great interiors, but the new G is very well done. When has Acura knocked one out of the park? Ever?
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    75 percent growth for the A8 is amazing for this emerging market and there are no ifs and buts about it!

    Actually that kind of growth for a particular model is not unusual at all for emerging markets. We are talking about a base of only a couple thousand units a year; high per centage growth is common when numerical base is low, in any market. Just to put in context, the Chinese car market itself grew by 34% last year (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/02/content_345100.htm), Ford grew by 86.6%! BMW brand 49.6% (Reuters artical headline actually reads 51.3%, growth is so high, they apparently can't even count consistently in the same article!), Rolls-Royce grew by 60%! (http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2007/january/09/12212.asp)

    For what it's worth, Lexus sales growth was 76% in Europe! As a whole brand, not just select individual models! That's to a new numerical base of 50k units!. High per centage growth is common when the market is "emerging" :-)

    Also there is nothing wrong with being a high paid bureaucrat with a nice car

    Interesting take indeed. A8 at about close to $100k local price (after import tax etc.) is roughly 30 times the local average annual income. In comparable ratios, if bureacrats in the US were driving around in cars costing over $1 million, you tell me no corruption is involved. Businessmen and corruption are not mutually exclusive in the developing world. I have my own business associates in China. Few of them have cars like A8 (after all, only a couple thousand were sold in a country of 13 billion). Those who do have cars like that certainly do not drive themselves. Heck, most Toyota Crown and A6 owning businessmen do not drive themselves if they can help it. I wouldn't want to drive there myself, given how crazy the traffic is; if you thought NYC or Boston drivers were rude, try driving in Shanghai ;-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Very well said. MB and BMW are incredibly successful in marketting. The good news is that the actual cost of getting one can often be less than what many others may think thanks to rebates of alls sorts that you mentioned (please, other readers, let's not get into a debate over lease again). That makes the cars very good tools for "impressions" as you mentioned and as employee incentives when employer lea . . . er . . . gets one for the valued employees.

    You wish you had a choice, but your gf will want a diamond no matter what.

    hahaha, run! don't look back :-)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    d-man,
    When it comes to design stuff, you and I, due to our specialties, just might see things differently than the others. But whether that is the case or not, I agree with your point in your post. I can see the advantage of real wood, but that advantage can be overshadowed by poor execution.

    The bottom line on all of this is that, even to this day, the interiors of neither Acura or Lexus are anything to crow about. I'd give the edge to Lexus overall, as I always have, but those posts that lg had been making were too extreme and off balance... inferring that Lexus interiors are incredible and Acura interiors have never been any good.

    Heck, they both use the same design theme overall, with some exceptions here and there. Yes, I'll give the edge to Lexus, but an irrelevant edge.

    As you know very well, to this day, the flagship LS model uses conventional center stack / console layout and is executed with good workmanship, but for a HELC, there is an abundance of plastic and the design is nothing striking or special, just conventional that's done well. Acura doesn't have a HELC, as I see it, and that is another reason to expect better from Lexus, but it is not there I'm afraid.

    Even the rear multimedia in the LS long wheelbase is the same design as in a minivan, with the flip down (although motorized, of course) roof mounted screen. These are a dime a dozen and cheap-looking. The BMW has an interesting center console approach that swivels and turns... not fantastic, but innovative, and the best approach is individual color monitors in the back of the headrests, like Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, and others.

    Again, conventional and boring, but well done.

    That's why all this baloney has been going back and forth. Lexus deserves no special recognition for those interiors, and Acura does not deserve such harsh criticism for also building conventional interiors that look very similar in their layout and execution... regardless of whether the wood is real or not. Wood isn't the almightly deciding factor between those two brands, that's for sure.

    Between the Acura and Lexus interiors... I'd say a 6 for one and half dozen for the other... with slight edge to Lexus. That's the balanced reality, IMHO, of course.

    TagMan
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    If your interpretation of driving is going from point A to point B then I can understand that.

    However, if it is not then I must ask- do you derive any pleasure from driving? I do, I look forward to driving everyday. I enjoy the sound of the motor, exhaust, the feel of the road through the steering wheel & having complete control of the car with my hands (via manual tranny).It's almost an addiction.

    I have yet to find a Lexus to deliver "driving" pleasure. Maybe the Lexus IS-F will do better but then again maybe not. From what I hear, they still won't put a manual tranny in their M3 fighter.

    As far as the indirect personal attacks- whatever...
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    To all:

    Let's stop making this personal. We all are entitled to our priorities and, really, we have no right to dictate to others what their priorities should be. Sometimes it's a good idea to just understand that the other person has a different point of view and that's okay - you don't have to agree, but it's all good! There's no need to make differing viewpoints into personal confrontations.

    And please note that we've been losing track of the definition of this discussion. Please remember what we've worked so hard to define - see the header if you don't remember.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Just when I thought I found a disciple!

    LOL!!! ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    ggesq,
    I notice you typically post on some of the other forums, and I haven't seen you around here much. Hope to see more of your posts here, as I've been enjoying them quite a bit.
    TagMan
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