Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





High End Luxury Cars

1110111021104110611071156

Comments

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,862
    Merc, whether right or wrong, you seem to feel an obligation to try and counter almost any criticism that is raised against Mercedes, so I will direct this puzzling question to you.

    The majority of the people who post here also seem to be staunch Mercedes defenders, yet invariably, when it comes time to pull the trigger and put their money where their mouth is, they buy some other brand.

    Why is that? And why do you seem to be about the only Mercedes guy here who actually owns one? If I am overlooking someone please forgive me.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    In sales, price, quality, features, looks, and acceleration.

    Say what you want Doc, but there is no escaping the fact that your LS didn't, hasn't and won't make the type of impact you went on and on about last year. Feel free to spin all you like, but there is no escaping that fact.

    Oh, I beg to differ. Where did the S-Class commercials come from? I thought the S was so incredible it didn't need to advertise?

    Think Mercedes noticed that the buzz is gone, just like that? I wonder what happened? Think it bothers them that the Lexus parking itself is THE BUZZ?

    And of all things, they are selling the looks of the thing? Oh baby! :P

    No need to spin anything. A very impressive review by Edmunds.com. No one here called it a nice car, they were impressed. With it's handling, poise, and power.

    Over 3000 sales, compared to 2000 for the S-Class (a 50% drop in sales for the S might be considered an impact, since the S WAS consistently over 3k last year).

    I don't fault anyone for not talking to you about this, because your credibility is long gone. The Lexus LS is more than a match for the S550. I've driven them, spent time with both, and I agree with Edmunds accessment, who eagerly reference the S550 whenever the talk about the LS.

    BTW, MT also found the LS faster. Not an isolated incident.

    When you have the cards, you don't need to bluff. ;)

    DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Either MT or R&T, I forgot which, did a first drive of the Maserati QP with the new autobox. It apparently has the same rev matching ZF six-speed auto as the Jaguar XK, easily one of the best automatics on the market. They were very impressed. The only difference is the automatic has a 49\51 weight distribution vs. 47\53 for the SMG. They will still offer it with the DuoSelect sequential manual, but I have no idea why anyone would order it that way. They also mentioned that things like bad panel gaps and vibrations\rattles that plagued earlier QPs have been eliminated. Very tempting...

    image
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Since Merc has a Mercedes, what are you asking HIM for? Your question seems to be directed at everyone BUT him. Owning a certain vehicle is not a prerequisite to comment and/or criticize. If this was the case, we'd have no reviewers for the rags. You don't own a Mercedes either. Should this preclude you from commenting?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    It's not that nice is an insult, just a backhanded compliment that doesn't fit. Don't be afriad of the big words! :)

    I like Edmunds' choice of words:

    Luscious

    Rich

    Extraordinary

    Drives like a smaller car.


    DrFill
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Doc, remember what I said about the parrot? ;-)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Merc, whether right or wrong, you seem to feel an obligation to try and counter almost any criticism that is raised against Mercedes, so I will direct this puzzling question to you.

    Likewise it seems that you feel the need to always down Mercedes at every turn. Whether it be the Maybach airbag issue, the GL or anything else...Mercedes always stinks according to you.

    The majority of the people who post here also seem to be staunch Mercedes defenders, yet invariably, when it comes time to pull the trigger and put their money where their mouth is, they buy some other brand.

    Yeah I used to hear this all the time. That I didn't have an opinion or couldn't possibly have any knowledge about a Mercedes because I didn't own one. Now I see on the LS board you referred to me as being an Mercedes owner, but the Mercedes I own isn't a HELC. Anyway, you'll have to ask the ones that defend Mercedes, but don't own one as this doesn't apply to me anymore. Been waiting a long time to say that!

    One thing that I've noticed though is that the majority of the Mercedes detractors have never, ever owned one either. Most of which don't post here anymore, but always swore up and down that they knew so much about Mercedes due to their friends, family etc. yet when you read their knocks against Mercedes you could tell they really didn't have a clue beyond what Consumer Reports or JD Powers told them. I noticed that some Lexus owners who used to own Mercedes are a little more open minded and/or fair on the whole issue. Just my observation in the 7+ years I've posted here.

    Why is that? And why do you seem to be about the only Mercedes guy here who actually owns one? If I am overlooking someone please forgive me.

    Well a lot of folks have left the board and/or don't post here anymore.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh, I beg to differ. Where did the S-Class commercials come from? I thought the S was so incredible it didn't need to advertise?

    I love it! You change the subject when you're licked! We were talking about the LS getting a series of lukewarm reviews and now you're talking about Mercedes S-Class advertising.

    Think Mercedes noticed that the buzz is gone, just like that? I wonder what happened? Think it bothers them that the Lexus parking itself is THE BUZZ?

    Who knows, who cares...why don't you write them and ask them. Seriously doc you're just grasping as straws here now.

    Over 3000 sales, compared to 2000 for the S-Class (a 50% drop in sales for the S might be considered an impact, since the S WAS consistently over 3k last year).

    Apparently you're just plucking numbers out of thin air because the S-Class did not drop 50 percent in Jan 2007 compared to Jan 2006. When are you going to actually read a sales report before posting? The S-Class sold 923 units in Jan of last year which was the old S-Class not the new one since the new didn't go on sale until Feb. The S sold 2078 units in Jan of 2007 that is a 125 percent increase.

    I don't fault anyone for not talking to you about this, because your credibility is long gone.

    This from someone who just tried to feed us this nonsense about the S-Class' sales dropping 50 percent vs last year! Talk about credibility!

    Just like your Lexus GS' sales dropped in the second year the S-Class will do the same, it is a normal trend. Those initial months of 3000 plus units won't ever be reached again, nor is it supposed to be. I know you'll not pretend that you don't know this and that the S is somehow doing a flop in the market place.

    The Lexus LS is more than a match for the S550. I've driven them, spent time with both, and I agree with Edmunds accessment, who eagerly reference the S550 whenever the talk about the LS.

    Yeah right, keep repeating that and maybe you'll actually get someone to believe it. It is clear to me that you're in denial at this point. In previous years the LS proved its place was secure review after review, now it has been reduced to lukewarm reviews here and there and a stunning loss at its previously #1 magazine. Yet you still act as though nothing as changed. Clear denial.

    BTW, MT also found the LS faster. Not an isolated incident.

    Really doc? Their "First Drive" of the LS460 in the Oct 2006 issue listed a "MFR EST" time of 5.4 secs, not an actual test result. BTW the the LS has never, even been able to get this number when actually tested. Anyway, then in the January issue in the COTY testing they got a 5.7 0-60 time for the LS460 SWB model compared to 5.6 secs for the S550. So you're just flat wrong again, now what was that about credibility doc? Either you're mistaken or you're trying to pull the Lexus vinyl over our eyes! Oh I get it you're talking about the 1/4 mile times I'm sure? That is where the SWB LS is faster than the LWB by default S550 per MT's testing.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thank you! Like I'm supposed to know why others that defend Mercedes didn't buy one. Most here who pondered buying on already stated what their reasons were anyway. Blkhemi and Tagman have talked about why they did or didn't buy an MB for months now!

    I guess now that since I don't own a S550 I'm not eligible to comment. Boy is this you don't own one you can't comment/angle as tired as ever.

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You can talk about any vehicle you want to talk about whether you own it or not.

    What would be very much appreciated from you and others is that we back away from the personal confrontations that have been happening here.

    Most times it's better to let an annoying statement pass rather than fly off at the person who made it.
  • Is Doc a credible source after his SC review?

    LG, I saw the Top Gear review of the XKR VS Vantage V8. I was very impressed with how balanced it looked while being driven hard. It was the best looking coupe at the auto show period.

    It's amazing how one can read a review and come away with a different take than someone else.

    BTW, the A8 still gives me goose bumps when I slip behind the wheel. [the wheel of the one at the show that is :blush: ]
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    As the host has pointed out, and we have all known all along, there is no way we could all own all the cars we talk about in this high end forum... well maybe blkhemi could. ;)

    I have indeed owned a few Mercedes vehicles, and I can assure you that an extra visit or two to the shop was all that I ever experienced beyond normal maintenance. The Mercedes were terrific. So far, the wife's Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas has had zero problems. I admit I am a bit surprised at that. I guess things are much better for Jag.
    The Porsche is too new to know yet, but if it's like my last ones, it will need some repairs... so I purchased the extended warranty!... potential problem solved!

    Some of us clearly show more bias here than others (no names needed), but there are no rules against bias... although I think it is a limiting factor. Preferences are a little better, perhaps they allow us to keep an open mind.

    But call it whatever you want, I sure do love the Eurocars, there is no question in my mind about that.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It's true. I don't like the Lexus LS. I guess it would be fair to explain this. As I said in one of my previous posts, the Lexus LS is great at isolating the driver from the road and surroundings... instead of connecting the driver to the road. This is a big difference, IMO. I definately prefer to be connected to the road and not disconnected from it.

    Beyond that, I just don't seem to have any affection for the style. Even though it's better than the previous model, overall, I still don't think it is exciting or dramatic in any way. It never makes my pulse increase.

    I honestly think the only use and desire I would have for one would be an LS460L, and to sit in that back right side seat with the foot rest and massage, and turn up the Mark Levinson system and relax. But who would drive? And why do that in a car when I would rather do that in my home? It's a poor excuse to buy a car, anyway.

    So... truth is what it is. Sorry to you Lexus fans. I just can't help myself to lust over those gorgeous and more fun-to-drive Eurocars that actually connect to the road! :D

    TagMan
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Here's the thing I don't get - are you and everyone else who have negative (or even positive!) things to say about any vehicle speaking from personal experience with said vehicle?

    It keeps looking to me like many/most/all (?) of you make up your minds from what you read and not what you experience.

    If that's what you want to do for yourself, more power to you; it's no skin off my nose or anyone else's. I just know that I'd have to experience something for myself before I make a judgment about any specific attribute. How it actually feels to me is way more important that how it feels to someone who happens to be writing about it.

    (But I will say that I would never, ever have any interest in the self parallel park dealy and I don't have to experience it to know that. :P )
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Why is Audi, MB and BMW seeking to produce hybrid and diesel versions of single models? Seems somewhat redundant, doesn't it?

    Well here's the reason:

    Should the EU take the dramatic step of banning cars that emit more than 200 g/km of carbon dioxide -- a category that includes 1,440 models in Europe, of which
    German carmakers make 612 -- it would slash profits by 30 percent at VW and by up to 40 percent at Audi, BMW and Mercedes, he said.


    OUCH! .

    Hybrids would be the best way for MB, BMW and Audi to achieve such strict emission standards. Blutec or no Blutec, hybrids are the best way of achieving lowest emission ratings.

    So who here would buy a hybrid BMW that is bogged down by a heavy battery and hybrid system? I certainly wouldn't!

    Ominous serious clouds lay ahead for all Euro performance car manufacturers with these new regulations.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Thanks dewey for your above clarification that you can make judgements about cars as a whole without ever setting butt in them, which was my point - that makes no sense to me.

    Figuring that the self-parking option is not appealing is nowhere near the same thing. It's as if I said I might be interested in the car, but I know that I don't want a moonroof - doesn't have a daggoned thing to do with the car itself.

    Edit: Dewey deleted the post I was replying to. :sick:
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Here's the thing I don't get - are you and everyone else who have negative (or even positive!) things to say about any vehicle speaking from personal experience with said vehicle?

    Whenever possible!

    For example, I have not driven the Bentley Continental GT, but I spent time at the dealership looking at it and sitting in it. I probably could have driven it, but I had no intentions of purchasing it. But I have opinions about the interior layout and style, which I have posted.

    I have examined the LS430 and driven it numerous times. When the new LS460 came out, I spent more time at the car show looking at the Lexus vehicles than I would have ever imagined. Why? I wanted to make sure I gave those vehicles every opportunity to impress me. And, there are certainly great things about them. They are well crafted, and comfortable, regardless of style. Actually, I liked the IS350 best of all of them, but that is not a high end car, and I think the Lexus SUV's are nice, but need to be updated.

    Regarding high end vehicles, I have owned Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar, and Ferrari. (I don't know if the Lotus counts.) I have driven or inspected most of the other high end vehicles, and I have owned a lot of non high-end vehicles that I do not discuss here, such as a Mini-Cooper S, and a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, VW Beetle, Hondas, Corvette, and many others that have no relevance here.

    I have not owned an Audi, for example, but I learn as much as possible, and I have checked them out at the dealership and always at the car show. Their interiors are striking... very well executed and the workmanship is terrific. I know this first-hand by seeing and touching, not just by reading it.

    I have friends with many of the high end cars. I get exposure in that way as well. My community is overflowing with these high end cars... they are everywhere, so that provides yet another way for me to learn...
    by asking my friends about their experiences.

    I look forward to continuing to check out more of these vehicles as time goes by. I anxiously am awaiting the arrival of the BMW 3-series convertible with that incredible new 300 hp twin-turbo engine, but that is also not a high end vehicle, so I don't talk much about it here, although I have mentioned it.

    I think some of us have had more exposure than others, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have been fortunate to have had a lot of first-hand exposure, and I make an effort to check these cars out and experience them as much as possible.

    As you know, I also post on other forums, on ocassion, for example, the Jaguar XJ forum and the Porsche 911 forum.

    An interesting example here is merc, who knows as much about Mercedes vehicles as anyone I've ever encountered in real life or on any forum... and for years he has contributed his knowledge and opinions without actually owning a Mercedes, until recently when he purchased his CLK. Now there's a guy who deserves a Mercedes if there ever was one!

    And, I think you know as well as I that some of the posters talk with little knowledge and experience, and others talk with an abundance of knowledge and experience. Beyond that, some are more biased than others. Ideally, everyone could have the ownership experiences of all the high end cars, but that isn't really possible, so being well-informed, and checking out the cars first-hand is the next best thing, IMO.

    Does that answer your question? :)

    TagMan
  • LS 460 SWB is on my radar, but I don't like that the steering & suspension upgrades are only available on the L. I don't need huge dimensions in the back, & the extra length would make it a snug fit for my garage. The SWB price point & Lexus rep make it attractive to me, but I get the feeling they are treating the SWB like a step child to the L.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Pardon me Pat,

    my keyboard typing is very slow. You responded to my deleted post faster than I was able to press the delete button. :sick:

    Personally I dont like any big car and I've driven many to know that bigger is not better at least in my particular case. It doesn't matter if it is a Lexus, BMW, Audi or a MB. Size and weight kills performance and handling in any car and I even find my wife's 5 series touring far too big to my liking.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I get the feeling they are treating the SWB like a step child to the L.

    The short wheelbase LS is the only last remaining "value" any more in the LS lineup. Anyone considering buying an LS that is looking for value, the short wheelbase would be the way to go. IF, however, value was not a consideration, then the long wheelbase would be the way to go due to the availability of options that are exclusive to that model.

    In order for Lexus to retain the "value" card, they have indeed treated the SWB like a step child to the LWB. you are correct.

    TagMan
Sign In or Register to comment.